Catherine Haddad's latest editorial

[Spiritwalker]

[QUOTE=grayandbay;7104280]
Go to Centerline Scores. Before Ms Haddad travelled to Germany , her average score in PSG was not even 60%
If the trainer she choose in Germany to work with felt the same as she does now , where would Ms Haddad be now. He took a chance on an inexperienced rider whom had the drive and determination to make herself better. Some of her points might be valid but her way of explaining them makes her look and sound as if she forgot where she came from and went thru. Just too bad she didn’t keep this opinion to herself . IMHO[/QUOTE]

Catherine knew how to ride and sit before she went to Germany so that is inaccurate.

[Spiritwalker]

[QUOTE=Kadenz;7104316]
Well, you certainly said it as badly as she did![/QUOTE]

Sorry, how would you like to have me say it. It’s the truth sorry if you are having trouble with it.

[Tasker]

Someone brought up Centerline scores and I am going to toss in a comment/fact as a rider who had very good success back then at CDI’s as a YR…

Scores from the 90’s (and earlier) were much tougher than they are now. The tests were more difficult, the scoring was tighter - what gets a 7.5 now would have been a weak 6 back then. Breaking 60% was a big deal. Getting a 65% was a HUGE score…

People might be forgetting that in an effort to vilify what CHS said.

For the record, when I can ride like this, then I’ll feel comfortable saying I can judge how she trains and teaches. She’s earned her stripes and paid her dues and understands how to teach horses and riders to be competitive on the international stage. You might not like the delivery of the message but that doesn’t make it inaccurate.

Carry on.

[NCRider]

[QUOTE=Tasker;7104413]
Someone brought up Centerline scores and I am going to toss in a comment/fact as a rider who had very good success back then at CDI’s as a YR…

Scores from the 90’s (and earlier) were much tougher than they are now. The tests were more difficult, the scoring was tighter - what gets a 7.5 now would have been a weak 6 back then. Breaking 60% was a big deal. Getting a 65% was a HUGE score…

People might be forgetting that in an effort to vilify what CHS said.

For the record, when I can ride like this, then I’ll feel comfortable saying I can judge how she trains and teaches. She’s earned her stripes and paid her dues and understands how to teach horses and riders to be competitive on the international stage. You might not like the delivery of the message but that doesn’t make it inaccurate.

Carry on.[/QUOTE]

It’s also possible when she decided to undertake this clinic tour and approved the flyers etc, that she was willing to take on beginner students, but her idea of what passed for a beginner dressage student after more than a decade in Germany probably bore no remote resemblance to what passes for a beginner student here in the US in terms of basic knowledge of how to sit on a horse. I’d be willing to be that she was pretty shocked at both the beginners and their trainers.

I do think she puts her foot in it a bit in light of the fact that now that she’s here, she’s going to have to suck up to those that have the money, just like everyone else who isn’t independently wealthy. Telling it like it is (and I think she’s 100% right) isn’t going to make her popular.

[AllWeatherGal]

Reading this thread as a writer not a rider I wonder if the purpose of the blog was not to flog anyone but to get people talking.

Writing something controversial,thought-provoking and leaving room for a variety of people to get offended so others will argue with the offense generates more buzz for the issue, and therefore, more awareness.

The point about learning to teach/train by watching excellent teachers is noteworthy and makes me ponder the difference between “instructor certification” and “teacher training.”

As for experts not wanting to waste time with amateurs, consider that professors at universities and colleges all over the United States create courses to attract new students to their field of study and seem to enjoy getting to play around with upper level content for the novice.

[grayandbay]

[QUOTE=Spiritwalker;7104394]
Catherine knew how to ride and sit before she went to Germany so that is inaccurate.[/QUOTE]

So … Your definition of " ride and sit " is what ???
Ms Haddad did not state that the AA riders were " bouncing all over and almost falling off "

[Spiritwalker]

[QUOTE=grayandbay;7104453]
So … Your definition of " ride and sit " is what ???
Ms Haddad did not state that the AA riders were " bouncing all over and almost falling off "[/QUOTE]

I’m confused by your question? You said Catherine was an inexperienced rider and she was not…

[grayandbay]

[QUOTE=Spiritwalker;7104455]
I’m confused by your question?[/QUOTE]

Not sure of your confusion . What is your definition of " ride and sit " ?
Every AA I have watched in clinics or at shows can Ride and sit . Maybe some sit better than others but they are not bouncing out of the saddle and falling off their horse. And they can ride well enough to guide their horse thru a Training Level Test 1 . So I would say, most of the AA riders CAN Ride and SIT

[wcporter]

[QUOTE=grayandbay;7104453]

Ms Haddad did not state that the AA riders were " bouncing all over and almost falling off "[/QUOTE]

:lol:

[grayandbay]

[QUOTE=wcporter;7104487]
:lol:[/QUOTE]

Absolutely I do ! But when someone states CH could " ride and sit " before she went to Europe … Please …

[WildBlue]

[QUOTE=mbm;7103839]
fwiw, i didnt take the article as saying that ammies are disrespectful - but the TRAINERS who bring their untrained riders to be taught the basics (which said trainer should of already done ) by CH.

if said trainer cant even teach a student such basics WHY ARE THEY TRAINERS?[/QUOTE]

Let me take this one teeny step further that I haven’t seen mentioned yet.

I read it to not just be disrespectful of the clinician, but of everyone at the clinic. If I pay $$ for a session that is supposed to be about X, Y, and Z, and some individuals who are faking competency, don’t have the horse, or otherwise are not actually performing at that level are in that session, it’s going to end up getting dumbed down to include them and they’ll probably use a disproportionately larger share of the instructor’s time. How is that not disrespectful of everyone else who paid the same money and came prepared for what was supposed to be taught?

I hate to say it, but sometimes we, as a culture, go too far to give everyone a ribbon and pat on the fanny at the expense of higher standards. It happens in professional seminars and college courses, not just in riding clinics, and truly benefits nobody. It’s uncomfortable and disheartening for the people who realize they’re holding the group back, is completely unfair to everyone else, and doesn’t do our best any favors when it comes to being competitive on a broader stage.

I really, really hope the various comments regarding how trainers feel they can learn to be better trainers (such as how useful it is to watch someone else work with your student) and some of the hurdles facing trainers who are trying to add to their toolbox by attending clinics don’t get lost in all the panty-wadding. The horse industry, in every discipline, desperately needs people with good basics who can effectively teach those basics to their students.

[Spiritwalker]

[QUOTE=grayandbay;7104464]
Not sure of your confusion . What is your definition of " ride and sit " ?
Every AA I have watched in clinics or at shows can Ride and sit . Maybe some sit better than others but they are not bouncing out of the saddle and falling off their horse. And they can ride well enough to guide their horse thru a Training Level Test 1 . So I would say, most of the AA riders CAN Ride and SIT ;-)[/QUOTE]

Got to disagree with you on that one. Most can stay on the horse but sit correctly and put the horse in the correct frame in the correct way no. It is not their fault let me be clear on that. I’m not bashing AA I’m agreeing with CH on the teaching aspect. One can be a great rider but that does not always translate into being a good teacher.

[Spiritwalker]

[QUOTE=grayandbay;7104494]
Absolutely I do ! But when someone states CH could " ride and sit " before she went to Europe … Please …[/QUOTE]

So clearly you lived in MI? You must not really have a clue because she could…has she improved yes… Put on some glasses my friend.

[grayandbay]

Wow…please don’t call me friend … That is completely insulting …and all the poor riders in MI … How disrespectful

[Bristol_Bay]

[QUOTE=WildBlue;7104522]
Let me take this one teeny step further that I haven’t seen mentioned yet.

I read it to not just be disrespectful of the clinician, but of everyone at the clinic. If I pay $$ for a session that is supposed to be about X, Y, and Z, and some individuals who are faking competency, don’t have the horse, or otherwise are not actually performing at that level are in that session, it’s going to end up getting dumbed down to include them and they’ll probably use a disproportionately larger share of the instructor’s time. How is that not disrespectful of everyone else who paid the same money and came prepared for what was supposed to be taught?

I hate to say it, but sometimes we, as a culture, go too far to give everyone a ribbon and pat on the fanny at the expense of higher standards. It happens in professional seminars and college courses, not just in riding clinics, and truly benefits nobody. It’s uncomfortable and disheartening for the people who realize they’re holding the group back, is completely unfair to everyone else, and doesn’t do our best any favors when it comes to being competitive on a broader stage.

I really, really hope the various comments regarding how trainers feel they can learn to be better trainers (such as how useful it is to watch someone else work with your student) and some of the hurdles facing trainers who are trying to add to their toolbox by attending clinics don’t get lost in all the panty-wadding. The horse industry, in every discipline, desperately needs people with good basics who can effectively teach those basics to their students.[/QUOTE]

This deserves more than a thumbs up.

I once watched a BNT clinic, where the clinic was organized by someone with an “in” to this very famous trainer. Instead of orchestrating a range of riders at different levels, two of the six riders were the organizer and his trainer. Both horses were usually ridden in draw reins by the two riders, as we who boarded there could attest. So in the clinic, sans draw reins, both horses were flipping their heads and refusing all contact. It was not just embarrassing, but a waste of the clinician’s and the auditors’ time.

In her blog, CH is saying she does not have the time to pre-audition riders for her clinics. She resents trainers roping their regular students into an expensive clinic just so they can have their lesson with a BNT. Is IS a waste of CH’s time.

[cnm161]

I don’t understand some of the outrage. Meup, even taking your $10k horse and $490k lesson strategy, wouldn’t it make a lot more sense if those amateurs and low-level pros spent their lesson money on more frequent lessons from a less-BNT than rare lessons with Haddad?

A clinic with Haddad (or Peters, or Zettl, or Hester, or…) is not going to help the not-quite-training-level pair as much as consistent eyes on the ground. If the going rate is $300 for a weekend, it’d make a lot more sense to throw that at 6 weeks of weekly lessons with a local pro to install some basics before throwing money at a BNT.

It may not be “worth” Haddad’s time to teach basic rider position, but it certainly isn’t worth the amateur’s money to have Haddad teach once in a blue moon vs. the value of having more frequent instruction.

[Spiritwalker]

[QUOTE=grayandbay;7104552]
Wow…please don’t call me friend … That is completely insulting …and all the poor riders in MI … How disrespectful[/QUOTE]

Don’t make me laugh:) I’m disrespectful? No one is disrespecting the riders.

[Carolinadreamin]

[QUOTE=WildBlue;7104522]
Let me take this one teeny step further that I haven’t seen mentioned yet.

I read it to not just be disrespectful of the clinician, but of everyone at the clinic. If I pay $$ for a session that is supposed to be about X, Y, and Z, and some individuals who are faking competency, don’t have the horse, or otherwise are not actually performing at that level are in that session, it’s going to end up getting dumbed down to include them and they’ll probably use a disproportionately larger share of the instructor’s time. How is that not disrespectful of everyone else who paid the same money and came prepared for what was supposed to be taught?

I hate to say it, but sometimes we, as a culture, go too far to give everyone a ribbon and pat on the fanny at the expense of higher standards. It happens in professional seminars and college courses, not just in riding clinics, and truly benefits nobody. It’s uncomfortable and disheartening for the people who realize they’re holding the group back, is completely unfair to everyone else, and doesn’t do our best any favors when it comes to being competitive on a broader stage.

I really, really hope the various comments regarding how trainers feel they can learn to be better trainers (such as how useful it is to watch someone else work with your student) and some of the hurdles facing trainers who are trying to add to their toolbox by attending clinics don’t get lost in all the panty-wadding. The horse industry, in every discipline, desperately needs people with good basics who can effectively teach those basics to their students.[/QUOTE]

Well said. I don’t understand the need to be so offended by slights that sometimes are just not there.

[grayandbay]

Than explain " so you clearly lived in MI " … Actually don’t explain … Not worth it and off the subject . :sadsmile:

[Spiritwalker]

[QUOTE=grayandbay;7104576]
Than explain " so you clearly lived in MI " … Actually don’t explain … Not worth it and off the subject . :sadsmile:[/QUOTE]

Easy explanation, you said Catherine could not ride or sit before going to Germany. I’m assuming you must live in MI because that is where she trained and lived before going to Germany. I wouldn’t think anyone would be foolish enough to express an opinion only from her scores in the 90’s and not seeing her ride. Although I think you are wrong in your observation(assuming you did observe her ride;)