So I read the blog and kept hearing Mighty Mouse in the back of my head.
“Here I am to save the day…!!!”
:winkgrin:
[QUOTE]Quote from blog: “I am finished with all existing clinic commitments in September. October and November are wide open. Wide open”
I’m confuzzled. Does this first statement mean that she has canceled Sept clinics? If so, way to go to reveal that inner Diva! And as to the second statement, that’s just kind of sad, really[\QUOTE]
I read it as “I am FINISHED with all existing clinic in Sept” - just goes to show how the tone of the blog affects its perception.
[QUOTE=Spiritwalker;7105011]
Wrong oh my friend…Sucks to be wrong all the time:) nice try[/QUOTE]
I think you might want to let it go… 
[QUOTE=Crockpot;7105037]
I think you might want to let it go… ;-)[/QUOTE]
The pot calling the kettle black:)
[QUOTE=Spiritwalker;7105042]
The pot calling the kettle black:)[/QUOTE]
In this case nope. Crockpot is spot on with his/her comments.
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;7105043]
In this case nope. Crockpot is spot on with his/her comments.[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
All I will say is I’d love the opportunity to lesson twice a week but there simply isn’t trainers within a 2 hour drive from me. Yes, lots of people drive that far or more but with the cost of fuel and the sheer amount of time it takes, I can’t do it on my tight budget and schedule.
I would be happy if there was a good trainer close enough for me to take weekly lessons. That being said, I also know better than to try and ride in any clinic, it just wouldn’t be fair to any one. So, until teaching pays better and/or a trainer moves into my area, I’ll keep plugging away with my training level self and gather what kernels of knowledge I can along the way.
Ooh, just to add the the hundreds of posts…
I think Catherine’s post and opinion is totally appropriate. I didn’t come away from her post going “wow what an ego” but this is probably because I think it’s acceptable to have a gigantic ego, coming from where she is. Don’t you think one has to have a pretty big ego to compete at that level, plus find funding and sponsers, etc, etc? I imagine she has to sell herself all the time, and she must absolutely believe in herself in order to keep competing. I bet her ego is a large part of what got her to where she is today. Sure, there are probably exceptions, but I just think she’s totally appropriate here.
My question to Catherine would be, what about those lower level AAs that have the drive to improve, but need to gain knowledge through their trainers. They need to ride for a while to even figure out if their trainer is training correctly (how do you find this out when you are a novice rider? The internet? Even scores can be biased). However, a well known and proven trainer like Catherine has a fairly reasonable chance of being the “real deal”. If you have the money, why not spend your whole career, from the very beginning, learning from the best? Catherine talks about trainers who don’t teach the basics - if you read that, wouldn’t that make you go “oh shoot, I’d better stay away from those people and ride with Catherine, somebody who says they can 100% teach anyone the basics” - if I was a millionaire, I certainly would. And if I couldn’t relocate to Catherine, the next best logical thing would be a clinic.
So… I think Catherine is totally fine with wanting to restrict her clinic clients. However, I’d ask her how to find “approved” trainers. With her appropriate ego, I say she should publicly make a list of approved trainers!!
…so, I’m curious - who was Spiritwalker? It’s not fair to come on and say, “I know something you don’t know, neaner, neaner, neaner.”
Have cliniced with CHS
Wow-when I looked at this yesterday morning, there were just a couple pages of replies. I wanted to post then, but did not have time. Obviously, she has touched a nerve.
The barn I board and train at brought in CHS two years ago for a clinic. I did ride with her. I was the lowest level rider in the clinic at First Level. We had several FEI horses, including GP, and 3 trainers rode in the clinic. Four riders were AA’s, and one YR. ALL riders worked on the same thing-better positions, better contact, better gaits. How that was achieved depended on what level the horse/rider was at. No one worked on improving individual movements until CHS was satisfied with the above three things.
My regular trainer/instructor is an accomplished rider with USDF bronze, sliver, and gold medals-all on horses she trained herself. She has had one student recently get her gold medal, and has a few who are competing at FEI and headed that way. Her main clientele are older (40-50-60+) AA’s. I do receive good instruction, on a regular basis.
I was not unhappy with the lesson-my only complaint would be she interfered with my warmup. In my later 50’s, I have stiffness/arthritic issues, and how I ride in the first 5 minutes, is not how I ride after 15 minutes or so of warmup. This is actually my pet peeve with a lot of clinicians-don’t judge in first few minutes with an older AA. We worked on contact issues, and better gaits. Definite improvement. I do not think she thought much of my horse, and think she would be surprised to see him now. CHS was blunt, but always professional. She did push her saddle. She also is well aware of her position in the dressage community.
I admire her honesty in speaking out. I think her points are valid, although a bit idealistic. You can put a 12 year old on the lunge line, and they will get it very quickly. Heck, you can put a 20 year old on the lunge line and see fast improvement. But a 40-50-60 year old? Who hasn’t ridden in 30 years, or who maybe has never ridden at all, and is just learning? The learning curve is going to be very slow-and most of those will either give up riding, or move on to a less demanding instructor. My instructors clientele are those 40-50-60 somethings. Yes, they are encouraged to take lunge line lessons-most do some at some point. I do-did quite a few when I first started riding again after a 30 year break, and have recently started back up again. Competing at second level, and trying to make the jump to 3rd has pointed out some riding issues I need to fix. (A horse that athletically bucks sometimes during changes emphasizes to one the need to lean back and keep ones seat!)
But frankly, my seat will probably never be to CHS standards. I can sit working trot-but lose that after a few strides of medium. Another riding project I am working on. The main emphasis here is that I am working on things-but will never ride like a pro. And frankly-I probably am typical of most AA’s that compete. I take one lesson a week, compete at 4-6 shows a year. have been successful at some of them, and sucked at some of them. I have received scores from 48% to 70%. I don’t know of many AA’s that have all the skills that CHS thinks they need to have to ride with her-at least not all the skills rolled up in a pretty package. My instructor corrects my position on a regular basis, but there will probably always be something that can be better.
I do not think the answer is certifying instructors-at least not under the current guidelines. We have two USDF certified instructors in the area, and neither is great. There students don’t really go anywhere, and although they ride well, that does not seem to be translating into teaching well.
With the cost of bringing in CHS for a clinic-and what the lessons cost to the riders, I would imagine the trainers that really need her instruction probably can’t afford her. Perhaps this is an area USDF could help on?
[QUOTE=Fourbeats;7105058]
All I will say is I’d love the opportunity to lesson twice a week but there simply isn’t trainers within a 2 hour drive from me. Yes, lots of people drive that far or more but with the cost of fuel and the sheer amount of time it takes, I can’t do it on my tight budget and schedule.
I would be happy if there was a good trainer close enough for me to take weekly lessons. That being said, I also know better than to try and ride in any clinic, it just wouldn’t be fair to any one. So, until teaching pays better and/or a trainer moves into my area, I’ll keep plugging away with my training level self and gather what kernels of knowledge I can along the way.[/QUOTE]
This is what made me so sad about CHS’s blog. There are people who are trying so hard and on their own. They’re not made of money, but they have a love of the sport and a drive to do their best. For them a clinic is a taste of what they’ve been attempting by themselves. So when clinicians make them feel like their presence would be some kind of imposition, that their participation “wouldn’t be fair to anyone” I get really angry.
Solitary practitioners have more drive than others have in their little fingers. They have to in order to take on such a task. To make them feel small is a crime.
Paula
[QUOTE=GimmeQs;7105064]
Ooh, just to add the the hundreds of posts…
I think Catherine’s post and opinion is totally appropriate. I didn’t come away from her post going “wow what an ego” but this is probably because I think it’s acceptable to have a gigantic ego, coming from where she is. Don’t you think one has to have a pretty big ego to compete at that level, plus find funding and sponsers, etc, etc? I imagine she has to sell herself all the time, and she must absolutely believe in herself in order to keep competing. I bet her ego is a large part of what got her to where she is today. Sure, there are probably exceptions, but I just think she’s totally appropriate here.
My question to Catherine would be, what about those lower level AAs that have the drive to improve, but need to gain knowledge through their trainers. They need to ride for a while to even figure out if their trainer is training correctly (how do you find this out when you are a novice rider? The internet? Even scores can be biased). However, a well known and proven trainer like Catherine has a fairly reasonable chance of being the “real deal”. If you have the money, why not spend your whole career, from the very beginning, learning from the best? Catherine talks about trainers who don’t teach the basics - if you read that, wouldn’t that make you go “oh shoot, I’d better stay away from those people and ride with Catherine, somebody who says they can 100% teach anyone the basics” - if I was a millionaire, I certainly would. And if I couldn’t relocate to Catherine, the next best logical thing would be a clinic.
So… I think Catherine is totally fine with wanting to restrict her clinic clients. However, I’d ask her how to find “approved” trainers. With her appropriate ego, I say she should publicly make a list of approved trainers!![/QUOTE]
After reading CHS’s blog and this thread I agree with ALL the posters who said "If you don’t want to teach people who haven’t mastered the basics say so up front"
Smurfs like me really don’t want to ride in clinics where the clinician feels that they are unworthy. BTDT and it’s not constructive. I’m old, I’m fat and I ride an Irish Draught Sport Horse. Most of us KNOW we don’t ride all that well but we try, we do the best we can given the opportunities we have.
CHS had a clinic in VA a few years ago and my gut instinct was to not audit it. I’m glad I listened to my gut.
[QUOTE=paulaedwina;7105102]
This is what made me so sad about CHS’s blog. There are people who are trying so hard and on their own. They’re not made of money, but they have a love of the sport and a drive to do their best. For them a clinic is a taste of what they’ve been attempting by themselves. So when clinicians make them feel like their presence would be some kind of imposition, that their participation “wouldn’t be fair to anyone” I get really angry.
Solitary practitioners have more drive than others have in their little fingers. They have to in order to take on such a task. To make them feel small is a crime.
Paula[/QUOTE]
No. If you are a beginner and can afford several hundred dollars to clinic with a BNT, then you can afford regular (or semi-regular) lessons with a local trainer. Working alone for months on end and then blowing your wad on a weekend with somebody famous is just about the worst way to improve that there is.
Anybody who chooses to work alone… and I realize that some people out there have no other choice… are working so hard against themselves it isn’t even funny. Drive has nothing to do with it… it’s ignorance.
Wow. Awesome.
Paula
[QUOTE=Crockpot;7105026]
[QUOTEQuote from blog: “I am finished with all existing clinic commitments in September. October and November are wide open. Wide open”
I’m confuzzled. Does this first statement mean that she has canceled Sept clinics? If so, way to go to reveal that inner Diva! And as to the second statement, that’s just kind of sad, really.[/QUOTE]
I take it to mean she is not booked for any more clinics and thinks her blog entry will help her fill up oct nov.[/QUOTE]
IIRC, she said in the comments to her blog that she has had four invitations to run clinics since the posting went up.
Hey, it’s true. $400 for a weekend or $400 for 8-10 lessons from a local pro? Take the local pro option before you drop money on a weekend that won’t help.
Clinics are great for uncovering training issues, for tuning up, for raising the expectations of training. They are not good for basics like position. That’s what your local pros are for!
It’s nothing against amateurs, people who work on their own, or anything else. It’s about maximizing your return on your $$ spent on dressage instruction. It’s not worth your $$ to throw it all on one weekend when you need to learn to post (or canter, or sit the trot, or…). A weekend with Haddad is not an inconsequential expense, and it can be worth it when you can utilize her experience to make leaps in your riding and training. It isn’t worth it when you’re struggling with walk/trot/canter.
And by doing that, you’re supporting your local pro. Your lesson money goes to his or her training budget, which makes him or her better for you. If you don’t have a local pro, that’s a different story. If all your local pros are evil, terrible vicious people, that’s another issue. But for the majority of dressage riders, there’s someone within 50 miles that’s a decent trainer. Maybe not great, but decent.
Again, this isn’t a denigration of amateurs, of self-starters, or of the all-American dressage dream. It’s not. It’s not even a judgement on the type of person you/the average dressage rider/whatever is/are (I’m getting all confused with my hefty option list). It’s akin to sending your kindergartner to an Ivy League university because that education is better than your average public school. Maybe, but your kindergartner doesn’t need to learn about tort reform. Your kindergartner needs to learn the ABCs. Eventually the kindergartner will grow up and could benefit from that kind of expensive education.
[QUOTE=cnm161;7105153]
Hey, it’s true. $400 for a weekend or $400 for 8-10 lessons from a local pro? Take the local pro option before you drop money on a weekend that won’t help.
Clinics are great for uncovering training issues, for tuning up, for raising the expectations of training. They are not good for basics like position. That’s what your local pros are for!
It’s nothing against amateurs, people who work on their own, or anything else. It’s about maximizing your return on your $$ spent on dressage instruction. It’s not worth your $$ to throw it all on one weekend when you need to learn to post (or canter, or sit the trot, or…). A weekend with Haddad is not an inconsequential expense, and it can be worth it when you can utilize her experience to make leaps in your riding and training. It isn’t worth it when you’re struggling with walk/trot/canter.
And by doing that, you’re supporting your local pro. Your lesson money goes to his or her training budget, which makes him or her better for you. If you don’t have a local pro, that’s a different story. If all your local pros are evil, terrible vicious people, that’s another issue. But for the majority of dressage riders, there’s someone within 50 miles that’s a decent trainer. Maybe not great, but decent.
Again, this isn’t a denigration of amateurs, of self-starters, or of the all-American dressage dream. It’s not. It’s not even a judgement on the type of person you/the average dressage rider/whatever is/are (I’m getting all confused with my hefty option list). It’s akin to sending your kindergartner to an Ivy League university because that education is better than your average public school. Maybe, but your kindergartner doesn’t need to learn about tort reform. Your kindergartner needs to learn the ABCs. Eventually the kindergartner will grow up and could benefit from that kind of expensive education.[/QUOTE]
All of which I agree with, but if the problem is that the AAs AREN’T TAKING LESSONS WITH THEIR LOCAL PROS, then there is no need to have a bitch fest at the local pros and tell them they all need to come on down and learn how to ride.
Oh, and btw, some of us “critiquers” DO teach longe lessons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPQiUjmlqKY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Doesn’t mean that any of the beginners who show up to ride in the $400 clinic weekends we go to ever, you know, deign to take them.
So, what does the AA do when there isn’t a local pro?
So, what does the AA do when there isn’t a local pro?
You do the best you can. In the past I’ve:
-
Flown to a pro’s farm to take a dressage ‘vacation’ where I got both lounge lessons and private lessons on schoolmasters.
-
Flown pros in with the help of a couple of other desperate amateurs and hosted regular/monthly clinics in order to get credible instruction.
-
Used video to tape my rides and send them to a pro for critique and feedback.
-
Convinced locals to hold a one day clinic after a show where the judge stayed over one extra day to give instruction and more in-depth critique/feedback on the rides over the weekend and what needs to happen to go forth so-to-speak
-
Read, watch videos, go to shows to observe others oh and pray that I either move or someone with skills and a willingness to share them would move in.
-
Ridden with BNTs and got snubbed but if that’s all I had available, I paid and made the best of it. :winkgrin:
And of course let the others banter on and pass judgment…I tend to agree with those that support some of the points made in the blog and that for someone like me to ride with someone like her :no: wouldn’t elevate either one of us but wringing my hands over the thoughts and words of others? No, time is better spent seeking a solution :yes:
