One more thing. I liked CHS before this blog, and I still do. Disagreeing with someone doesn’t mean you don’t like or respect them 
I’m an attorney. If I made enemies of everyone who ever disagreed with me or told me I was wrong, I would have no friends. Even my husband tells me I’m wrong. I would like to think that CHS can take it like she dishes it out.
There is a lack of consistent ‘basics’ in the US right now, and that is not only the hardest thing to master, but the foundation for everything else.
For all of the decent talent that does manage to get into the arena in one piece, there are many more who get injured due to having a poor background. These types of injuries are ones that could easily have been prevented by good basics and horsemanship.
Col. Bengt Ljunquist made a point of judging Training Level and First Level when he was invited to judge Grand Prix specifically to drive it home that correct basics were where Grand Prix started. He was known for making this point, numerous times.
[QUOTE=Velvet;7106096]
It goes along with all the Parelli and Clinton Anderson. A lot of riders seem to want to read a book or watch a DVD to become an expert, and boy do they believe they are one after watching said videos. I can’t tell you how many times I see the blind leading the visually challenged just because one if them watched one if those trainers and has convinced the other they are an expert. Never mind the fact that their horse crawls around the ring and the “expert” still can’t sit it. Or the fact that they rarely ride and are afraid of their horse.
True riding takes time, commitment and skill. Oh, and let’s not forget good instruction, which truly is in short supply in all areas of this country.[/QUOTE]
For those of you dissing CH’s “marketing” skills, I’d ask you to think about Velvet’s post and the “trainers” who are consummate marketing machines, raking in the money without dispensing much if anything of value. Just take a look at some of these trainers’ videos. One of the videos is on putting a horse on the bit. However, the horse is never truly on the bit or through, yet numerous people are watching this assuming it is the end-all be-all of training, when in fact it’s nothing more than the end-all be-all of a super-slick marketing machine. Further, some people are lured into believing that if they spend x number of dollars on the 10-part video series that they, too, can call themselves experts. Too many people in our society expect instant gratification, and few people are willing to put in the hours and hard work that is necessary to become really proficient at a particular skill. The problem with riding is that some people are in the position financially to buy their way to the upper levels so they have no real understanding of what it takes to get a horse there.
Perhaps CH could have worded her blog differently—although I think a number of people would have still taken issue with it—but the fact remains that there are a lot of charlatans out there. There’s no question that we need trainers with better basics who can effectively convey their knowledge to others. We also need students who are dedicated, willing to sweat and work hard, and don’t have myriad excuses for why they aren’t going to ride today. If you want to be good at anything, you have to be willing to make a lot of compromises in other areas of your life AND on a regular basis. That’s a bitter pill for a lot of people to swallow.
[QUOTE=suzy;7106895]
I have no idea what CH gets out of promoting Stubben saddles, but I’m surprised that this is even a bone of contention considering that most top athletes promote certain products according to their sport: sneakers, tennis rackets, golf clubs, and so on. Lisa Wilcox promoted Passier saddles; I think that Sue Blinks and Steffen Peters promote Custom Saddlery, and so on. It doesn’t make them bad people, particularly if they truly believe in the product, and there’s no question that CH does believe in the Stubben saddle. I’ve never seen her ride in anything else. She also said in a video or her blog (can’t remember which) that the Stubben that she rides in is not necessarily ideal for riders who haven’t developed an independent seat, and I think it’s good that she called this out. I have the Genesis Special, and it is hands down my favorite saddle (and I have some nice and far more expensive saddles in my barn), but I agree with her caveat. The great thing about “minimalist” saddles is that they fit a wider range of people IMO because of the lack of padding. I’ve ridden in a number of very comfortable, ultra padded saddles but am frustrated by not being able to put my leg where I want it to be. Also, if someone goes to one of her clinics and doesn’t want to ride in the Stubben, it’s hard to believe that she would or could force them to.
Editing to ask how to access the video of GM riding Winyamaro. When I click on the link, I get a message that it is “private.”[/QUOTE]
Shilling a product is a problem if she does it during lesson times.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;7106933]
Shilling a product is a problem if she does it during lesson times.[/QUOTE]
But the question is whether she is using the person’s lesson time to promote the product. Do you know for a fact that she is doing that?
[QUOTE=suzy;7106934]
But the question is whether she is using the person’s lesson time to promote the product. Do you know for a fact that she is doing that?[/QUOTE]
Nope.
But people who have attended her clinics have stated here that she tried the saddles on most all of the horses. If I was attending a clinic I’d be happy if someone informed me that the saddle didn’t fit. I wouldnt be happy that she was putting those saddles on all of the horses, and I don’t see how this wouldn’t cut into lesson time.
lowly AA carefully poking her head up out of her backwoods hole in the ground…
I wasn’t offended by CHS blog.
I thought it was a great wakeup call/opportunity for the USDF to DO something for AAs - by sponsoring and organizing regular regional training opportunities/clinics/symposiums for local trainers to train with some of the top trainers in the country.
I mean if you want trickle down…
Now back to the squabbling… sorry if this positive idea has already been brought up.
[QUOTE=suzy;7106895]
I have no idea what CH gets out of promoting Stubben saddles, but I’m surprised that this is even a bone of contention considering that most top athletes promote certain products according to their sport. . .[/QUOTE]
Suzy, much of what you say is so irrelevant that I am tempted not to respond, but here is a perfect example of you creating a straw man. No one said it was wrong to promote a product. Some people complained about her using a clinic to promote the saddle. I’m not saying that’s wrong, but it’s apples and oranges from Steffen Peters appearing in an ad for Custom Saddlery. A little logic please!
But people who have attended her clinics have stated here that she tried the saddles on most all of the horses. If I was attending a clinic I’d be happy if someone informed me that the saddle didn’t fit. I wouldnt be happy that she was putting those saddles on all of the horses, and I don’t see how this wouldn’t cut into lesson time.
Exactly. There was a coach here who did the same thing. Everyone had to ride in the same saddle that she rode in. A few years later all those magical saddles were on craigslist at a huge loss.
It’s one thing to say your saddle doesn’t fit but another to promote a brand that way and take up valuable lesson time. Do all horses really need this particular saddle?
NO.
[QUOTE=mbm;7105970]
people are leaving because we lack GOOD TRAINERS that can teach the basics… so folks end up not progressing… aka moving at the pace of a garden snail.
you folks are really really amazing! you have someone voicing loud and clear what is wrong with dressage (ie why ammies don’t progress as they should) and you eat the person alive.
i wonder how many pros will ever speak up in your defense again?[/QUOTE]
You see, CH is lamenting the lack of basics among many riders. Yet, she doesn’t want to teach the basics, according to her blog. Do you see the conundrum here?
She is not speaking up in my defense, btw. She’s complaining about her job.
Ha-ha, I see I wasted a few minutes responding to the comment about the saddles. By the time I hit send, several other people had already stated the obvious. As my boss (who is a genius) likes to say, “Most people aren’t stupid”
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;7106956]
You see, CH is lamenting the lack of basics among many riders. Yet, she doesn’t want to teach the basics, according to her blog. Do you see the conundrum here?
.[/QUOTE]
No. That isn’t what she’s saying. She is saying that she wants to teach the teachers how to teach the basics.
[QUOTE=Crockpot;7106951]
Exactly. There was a coach here who did the same thing. Everyone had to ride in the same saddle that she rode in. A few years later all those magical saddles were on craigslist at a huge loss.
It’s one thing to say your saddle doesn’t fit but another to promote a brand that way and take up valuable lesson time. Do all horses really need this particular saddle?
NO.[/QUOTE]
I think CHS’s students/clinic attendees are the only ones who can answer definitively as to whether they had to ride in the saddles and if it actually cut into their lesson time. Otherwise, we are all just guessing.
Until you take a lesson, audit, attend a clinic, and/or talk with Catherine in person you are all writing inflammatory fiction.
[QUOTE=not again;7107032]
Until you take a lesson, audit, attend a clinic, and/or talk with Catherine in person you are all writing inflammatory fiction.[/QUOTE]
Except that most posters were responding in outrage to the imperial tone of her blog, and not to her personally. No fiction there. Just her own inflammatory words, coming back to bite her in the rump.
It looks like COTH has closed the comments from her blog?
[QUOTE=alicen;7106641]
I’m wondering how many of those people who are saying that they won’t take a clinic from CH now would have ridden in a cllinic with her anyway.[/QUOTE]
As a newbie who has attended clinics with Hilda G and Debbie McDonald (and have a few more planned for the fall), and who has ridden in two clinics with BNTs, I can say that I would certainly have audited a clinic with her if she were here. And as soon as my trainer told me that I would benefit from riding with a clinician and that the clinician wanted to teach someone at my stage and level, I would apply to do so. So based on her words, she probably isn’t losing a riding fee from me 
due to my level, but she would lose the small auditing fee. And I fully plan on getting better so maybe one day I would have been a rider at her clinic.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;7106525]
Now git TF off the Interwebz, put yer bum in the tack & RIDE!!! 
[/QUOTE]
Good advice. Unfortunately I can’t ride for two more weeks. Probably why I’m posting so much.
[QUOTE=Tasker;7106577]Post #469 in this thread has righthorse asking about “would anyone go to another lesson/clinic” (paraphrasing - sorry - can’t figure out the multiple quote thing)
So, yes, I answered with the affirmative and said yes I would clinic again with Catherine. (not sure who CD is?) [/QUOTE]
Exactly-you have attended/ridden with her before and have other experiences from which to draw. I do not-THIS is my only first hand (and I say first hand because I’m reading the words she wrote) experience with her and it isn’t a good one that makes me want to spend time and money. That was my point-not that no one should attend any clinic with her.
You have far more credentials and experience than I do in this sport and I value your opinion. Her own words and the belief she projects make it more difficult for me to justify to myself following your advice over my heart after reading her own words (and not just in this blog, sadly).
FWIW, I also probably would think twice before riding with a clinician known to spend half the lesson telling the rider that he or she needs a new horse and there just happens to be one in his or her barn (or belongs to another student to whom he really does have a horse to sell so needs to get rid of her current horse) would work perfectly. Doesn’t mean he or she isn’t a great clinician and I can’t learn…but there are a lot of clinicians out there and I don’t have unlimited funds to spend half the time politely ignoring the sales pitch or hearing my horse’s limitations in any way other than “here are his limitations, and because you said you aren’t in the market for a new horse, here is how we will compensate.” After the lesson? Sure. Give it your best shot. But don’t sell to me on my dime. Maybe I’m just picky.
[QUOTE=suzy;7106926]
For those of you dissing CH’s “marketing” skills, I’d ask you to think about Velvet’s post and the “trainers” who are consummate marketing machines, raking in the money without dispensing much if anything of value. Just take a look at some of these trainers’ videos. One of the videos is on putting a horse on the bit. However, the horse is never truly on the bit or through, yet numerous people are watching this assuming it is the end-all be-all of training, when in fact it’s nothing more than the end-all be-all of a super-slick marketing machine. Further, some people are lured into believing that if they spend x number of dollars on the 10-part video series that they, too, can call themselves experts. Too many people in our society expect instant gratification, and few people are willing to put in the hours and hard work that is necessary to become really proficient at a particular skill. The problem with riding is that some people are in the position financially to buy their way to the upper levels so they have no real understanding of what it takes to get a horse there.
Perhaps CH could have worded her blog differently—although I think a number of people would have still taken issue with it—but the fact remains that there are a lot of charlatans out there. There’s no question that we need trainers with better basics who can effectively convey their knowledge to others. We also need students who are dedicated, willing to sweat and work hard, and don’t have myriad excuses for why they aren’t going to ride today. If you want to be good at anything, you have to be willing to make a lot of compromises in other areas of your life AND on a regular basis. That’s a bitter pill for a lot of people to swallow.[/QUOTE]
I’m one of those questioning her marketing skills, and I agree with everything you said. I’m not saying she should become a marketing guru…just find a better way to get her message across. :).
Fwiw, I am willing to work really hard, and I think I do. But my foal isn’t the Olympics…I like the process.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;7106956]
You see, CH is lamenting the lack of basics among many riders. Yet, she doesn’t want to teach the basics, according to her blog. Do you see the conundrum here?
She is not speaking up in my defense, btw. She’s complaining about her job.[/QUOTE]
I would guess that if CHS had simply written, “I want to teach the trainers I meet how to install better basics in their riders,” without making such a huge point about how offended she is to be asked to teach those riders herself and what a waste of her time/talent it is, she might well have gotten a much more positive reception.
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