Catherine Haddad's latest editorial

[Tasker]

[QUOTE=grayarabpony;7106585]
CD is a typo, of course. CH.

Again, NO ONE suggested that you or anyone should not take lessons from her anymore.

We need more instructors who know what they are doing and how to teach and don’t think they know all because they were rewarded at shows by putting their horse in a headset. My vote is for trainers from Europe if American trainers recently from Europe don’t want to take on the work.[/QUOTE]

Just for clarity - righthorse said “would” not “should”. That is why I answered. Because I would.

Ok - Europeans - which one(s)?
How much would that impact the cost and frequency do you think?
Where would these sessions get to be held?

[Kaluna]

[QUOTE=honeylips;7106163]
We’ve seen this type of behavior before. Rider trains in europe, has some success, comes back full of importance and thinks all USA riders should just fall at their feet. They have all the answers.
Lisa W pulled this when she first came back, but it changed when it didn’t go according to her “plan” for herself. Now she seems to teach everyone with a smile on her face. CHS could take a few lessons from her and learn from LW’s mistakes. It’s called ‘work’ for a reason.

IMHO CHS’ riding resume doesn’t have the depth to back up her mouth and ego. She’s trained with some folks who are decidedly viewed as left of center over there, she hasn’t ridden in a WEG or Olympics, she whined considerably and threatened to sue USEF when she didn’t get on the WEG team as a starting rider and she hasn’t trained any students with any appreciable success.

She’s quite known as a bully in the HP circles. She also uses her clinics to push her saddles and tells riders all their faults can be cured if they will buy one of her saddles.

From where I sit - there are a whole lot more humble, better trained, better riders, better teachers to give my money to.

To take people’s hard earned money and then B**ch about them behind their back in a public forum - is INEXCUSEABLE. And then to try to back peddle and say “I’m just trying to improve dressage in American that’s why I wrote this” is delusional. No wonder she doesn’t have a sponsor. Who’s gonna line up to give this chick money?[/QUOTE]

Honeylips, don’t know about you but I’ve heard our Olympic/WEG riders and FEI judges b*tch endlessly about the people they’re hired to teach. Yea, they can’t stand low level amateurs either. Catherine is honest. Yea, LW had to change her tune but she also trained a lot of horses from ground up. Gestute Volwerk didn’t hand her made stallions. Sure she was hoping for a cushy sponsorship like other Olympians have (who aren’t necessarily better riders than her, they have good sponsors). Sure she wants into the same game as SP and RD and JE, etc. Catherine doesn’t have owners she has sponsors. Same with Heather Blitz and TK. Not many of our Olympians can say they brought up their horses on their own dime, can they? Are these other International Riders better because they have sponsors buying them nice horses and sending them to Europe and paying their expenses? Smiling at clients and blowing smoke up butts isn’t any better than being blunt.

She doesn’t push her own saddles she doesn’t have her own saddles. She pushes Shultheis saddles - she gets no money from it. She rides in that system- no knee or thigh rolls. Same as Michelle Gibson.

Just because Catherine writes about her point of view doesn’t mean she thinks differently from her international GP teammates she just has the guts to tell people outside of the dinner table about it. I wish they all would tell the public what they talk about around the dinner table.

[grayarabpony]

[QUOTE=Tasker;7106605]
Just for clarity - righthorse said “would” not “should”. That is why I answered. Because I would.

Ok - Europeans - which one(s)?
How much would that impact the cost and frequency do you think?
Where would these sessions get to be held?[/QUOTE]

Way to split hairs. :rolleyes: You also used the word “should”, as in " - I should cancel my plans to train with her???"

I learned the most by far from Peter Kjellerup and Jules Nyssen, who live in the US. I think PK is retired from teaching though.

[Velvet]

I’m confused. I thought she pushed all Stubben saddles with the biomex seats.

[Foxtrot_s]

I went looking up the Schultheis (Romanus) saddle and a Kijiji ad popped up for $700.00. Older model, 18", 13.5 (med/wide) tree - against the rules, but …

[alicen]

I’m wondering how many of those people who are saying that they won’t take a clinic from CH now would have ridden in a cllinic with her anyway.

[Kaluna]

[QUOTE=Velvet;7106634]
I’m confused. I thought she pushed all Stubben saddles with the biomex seats.[/QUOTE]

She pushes saddles with no knee and thigh blocks and that are close contact. Like the Stubben Schultheis. Stubben doesn’t make it anymore and so now she recommends their saddles with no knee rolls/close contact. She trained in the Schultheis system, no surprise here.

[high_hat]

@Octobergirl;7106555

I attended a CHS clinic about a year ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. Yes she tried the Stubben Special saddle on most every horse and recommended that it would be a better saddle than the current one that the rider owned. That being said I loved the clinic, learned so much from auditing. Some of the horses did move better in the new saddle. I found her personable and never did she appear to think that her time was being wasted.

I just want to remark on this. I would not want my 45 min lesson used in anyway to try out a ‘new’ saddle. Additionally when you try a new saddle on a horse they will go differently even if it doesn’t fit well. I just fits differently than the previous saddle that the horse may or may not have had an issue with.

I audited a clinic some years ago and she had everyone try a different saddle as well.

[Velvet]

I used to ride in a Stubben Tristan that had no rolls, etc. I loved it, but have moved on to other saddles. I think you can have a favorite, but each horse has their own likes and dislikes, just as with bits. Oh, and as riders get injured or just older, their taste in saddles change, too. I hope she takes that into consideration.

[SnicklefritzG]

Regarding riders changing their tastes - I used to like riding in saddles that didn’t have much of a knee roll. Now that I’m coming back from an ankle injury (bad sprain) I find that I like the support of a knee roll or knee block.

I wouldn’t want a clinician to have me try a new saddle in a clinic. As others pointed out, the horse might react differently and then it could the rider some time to get used to it. On the other hand, I would find it totally appropriate for the clinician to suggest trying a different saddle and then riding in it next time around or at least reporting back.

[BaroquePony]

It’s one thing to discuss different saddles, but to ask everyone to try a different saddle on their horse?

[mbm]

you guys are still at it?

amazing!

[SnicklefritzG]

We were all waiting to see how many pages we could fill before you joined the fray.

[ToN_Farm]

[QUOTE=Kaluna;7106607]
She doesn’t push her own saddles she doesn’t have her own saddles. She pushes Shultheis saddles - she gets no money from it. She rides in that system- no knee or thigh rolls. Same as Michelle Gibson.[/QUOTE] Do you know that for a fact? I can’t say in her case, but there are rewards (financial and tack) for other pros that endorse saddles.

[grayarabpony]

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;7106859]
Do you know that for a fact? I can’t say in her case, but there are rewards (financial and tack) for other pros that endorse saddles.[/QUOTE]

I was going to ask the same thing…

[grayarabpony]

[QUOTE=Kaluna;7106607]
Honeylips, don’t know about you but I’ve heard our Olympic/WEG riders and FEI judges b*tch endlessly about the people they’re hired to teach. Yea, they can’t stand low level amateurs either. Catherine is honest. Yea, LW had to change her tune but she also trained a lot of horses from ground up. Gestute Volwerk didn’t hand her made stallions. Sure she was hoping for a cushy sponsorship like other Olympians have (who aren’t necessarily better riders than her, they have good sponsors). Sure she wants into the same game as SP and RD and JE, etc. Catherine doesn’t have owners she has sponsors. Same with Heather Blitz and TK. Not many of our Olympians can say they brought up their horses on their own dime, can they? Are these other International Riders better because they have sponsors buying them nice horses and sending them to Europe and paying their expenses? Smiling at clients and blowing smoke up butts isn’t any better than being blunt.

She doesn’t push her own saddles she doesn’t have her own saddles. She pushes Shultheis saddles - she gets no money from it. She rides in that system- no knee or thigh rolls. Same as Michelle Gibson.

Just because Catherine writes about her point of view doesn’t mean she thinks differently from her international GP teammates she just has the guts to tell people outside of the dinner table about it. I wish they all would tell the public what they talk about around the dinner table.[/QUOTE]

I have some questions:

1. Who are these esteemed endlessly bitching people?

2. So you think stating her feelings in a blunt manner (you’re not honoring me enough) is a good business strategy?? Others might just say it’s not very smart.

3. How do you know she doesn’t make commissions from the sale of saddles?

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=Lucassb;7106206]
I mean, really… if the message CHS wanted to send was simply, “we need more and better trainers in this country,” then obviously that sentiment would be far better expressed in a much more sympathetic way. For instance, she could have written, “My heart goes out to so many of the riders who come to my clinics missing the basics. It’s such a shame that their trainers have not been able to offer them more effective instruction so that they could do x, y and z. It seems to me that we need to figure out a way to help those professionals better acquire the skills they need to teach their good amateur clients to (put their horses on the bit, execute a decent 20 m circle, fill in desired skill here.) Here is what I suggest…”[/QUOTE]

Love this.
One of the best things I have learned from being a lawyer, is that when you are starting a conversation that could get confrontational, START SMALL. You can always “go big” later, as necessary. But if you start big, first of all it instantly sets a confrontational tone to the conversation and focuses the other side more on taking you down several pegs than on resolving the situation, and secondly it means that any acts of resolution will be a “step back” or “loss of face” for you.

[QUOTE=Tasker;7106577]
So back to the list of questions I had back aways - any ideas of who should be training the trainers? Locations? Frequency? Cost? Let’s discuss some positive changes of how to improve things here in the US for all riders and trainers.[/QUOTE]

Currently Christian Garweg comes from Germany two weeks out of every six and does a tour. Stops include Canada and now just outside of Buffalo. He has trained Pan Am gold and silvermedalists. A barn down the road brings him in for $200 a ride and we are hoping to remain on the every-six-weeks schedule.

I also noticed that someone mentioned Felicitas von Neumann Cassel (jesus, spelling?!) and while I have never ridden with her I do recall an article written by a hunter-to-dressage convert in Dressage Today who said they trained with her and kept wanting to buy upper level school masters and Felicitas made them get a lower level 6yo instead to really learn to ride. I did file that one away. Felicitas could have got a bigger commission on a more expensive horse and blown the sunshine up that student’s heinie, but she didn’t. That student could have left for a different trainer who would find them a school master to buy, but she didn’t. If FvNC is ever doing a clinic I can attend without subjecting my horse to 17 hours on the trailer one way, I will go.

Quite honestly, if these TRAINERS THEMSELVES who are teaching their students to not even be able to canter or ride on the bit are really so bad …do THEY really need a BNT to set them straight? I mean, I can teach pretty much anyone to ride on the bit, and I am more than happy to educate (parents, for example) on how to help their kids more effectively do their homework, and I am just little old me. At the same time I ask the rider, “Yes! Did you feel that?” I immediately turn to the parent and say, “Did you see that?” So without even thinking about it I guess I am training the parents to be better trainers, haha.

By the time the parent and kid have taught one horse lead changes, for example, the kid can teach it better to the next horse she gets the ride on, and the parent can help the younger sibling two years later when she is learning. So do we really need $300 trainer symposiums to educate people who can’t even get their clients on the bit? I don’t know about anyone else but I’m doing it for $40 a ride over here and anyone is welcome.

As Isabeau said earlier, the opportunities are there. After all, some people DO learn to ride in this country, don’t they? A lot of the time the question is whether the students will seek it out.

I have no real venom or love for CHS either way, I just think, as a trainer, that reading a post dedicated at “THE TRAINERS IN THIS COUNTRY SUCK!” was off putting and unnecessary. I actually am happy with the education opportunities I have managed to scrabble together or take advantage of to advance as a teacher for the sake of my students and as a rider for the sake of my horse. I see the road to Grand Prix stretching out ahead of me and my horse along a systematic training plan …and I currently live in a dressage wasteland. Are there other trainers in the area who don’t come to the Garweg clinics? Sure, but it is because they don’t seek out the opportunity, not because the opportunity doesn’t exist. As Isabeau said, if people want the education, they will go get it. It is there if you look. A lot of people, trainers and AA alike, aren’t “getting screwed”, they’re just too lazy or comfortable to go beat the bushes and drive more than an hour if necessary.

[suzy]

I have no idea what CH gets out of promoting Stubben saddles, but I’m surprised that this is even a bone of contention considering that most top athletes promote certain products according to their sport: sneakers, tennis rackets, golf clubs, and so on. Lisa Wilcox promoted Passier saddles; I think that Sue Blinks and Steffen Peters promote Custom Saddlery, and so on. It doesn’t make them bad people, particularly if they truly believe in the product, and there’s no question that CH does believe in the Stubben saddle. I’ve never seen her ride in anything else. She also said in a video or her blog (can’t remember which) that the Stubben that she rides in is not necessarily ideal for riders who haven’t developed an independent seat, and I think it’s good that she called this out. I have the Genesis Special, and it is hands down my favorite saddle (and I have some nice and far more expensive saddles in my barn), but I agree with her caveat. The great thing about “minimalist” saddles is that they fit a wider range of people IMO because of the lack of padding. I’ve ridden in a number of very comfortable, ultra padded saddles but am frustrated by not being able to put my leg where I want it to be. Also, if someone goes to one of her clinics and doesn’t want to ride in the Stubben, it’s hard to believe that she would or could force them to.

Editing to ask how to access the video of GM riding Winyamaro. When I click on the link, I get a message that it is “private.”

[Jeito]

[QUOTE=not again;7106507]
Dressage needs a half halt to get our basics back on track.[/QUOTE]

Are things really that bad? I see a lot of really good riders at the top and a lot of talented young riders working work their way up the ranks.

When were things ever that good? We didn’t win an Olympic team medal from 1976 to 1992, which seem to be your “good old days.” How have things gone “off track”?

Silly me, I have faith in our riders who are out there doing it. They don’t need a half halt. They need to keep on doing it, and they could use a little support.

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=not again;7106457]
At the end of the day, Catherine is a talented teacher, has very insightful solutions for training issues, and can bring a horse and rider up through the levels to grand prix. She can make a young horse up through the levels and win at the grand prix at CDI’s. Criticize her syntax, tone and choice of phrases, but please don’t lose the point of her blog.[/QUOTE]

Maybe she should structure her clinics the way she rides a horse.

If she wants to teach only advanced riders say so up front. Does she go over there or does she extended trot MXK?