Catherine Haddad's latest editorial

[grayarabpony]

[QUOTE=suzy;7108514]
Never have I or would I say such a ridiculous thing. Judges are fallible, there’s the halo effect, and judging is subjective. I have no problem considering other people’s opinions; what I object to is when people go over the top in their criticisms of Anky, Edward, CHS, GM, Denny Emerson, etc. etc. They are human beings with feelings. They have worked hard to get where they are. You may not like their style of riding, style of teaching or style of writing, but I don’t think that gives anyone the right to tear them apart in a public forum.[/QUOTE]

You certainly have strongly inferred such an attitude, not matter how much you try to deny it here.

So is it over the top to say that Anky’s horses often look tense and not through? Because in the past if anyone DARED to say such a thing the DQs on this forum would get very nasty. I put you among those DQs, like it or not, and your place there is well deserved.

Bored now – back on ignore you go.

[suzy]

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7108865]
You have outlined the “reasonable critique restrictions” you would like everyone else to apply to CHS.

You have failed to outline whether you think these same “reasonable critique restrictions” should also be applied by CHS to her critique of every local trainer in the country.

Every local trainer in the country did not voluntarily ask for CHS’s blog critique, and yet there it came.[/QUOTE]
meup, where did CHS name any names? She made a general observation based on the lack of basics she witnessed in students who had been riding for a number of years. This was not a personal attack on an individual. I will assume that you are adept at teaching your students the basics, so you can be secure in the knowledge that she was NOT talking about you.

[suzy]

[QUOTE=grayarabpony;7108883]
Yes, you certainly have strongly inferred such an attitude. Don’t even try to deny it. :lol:

So is it over the top to say that Anky’s horses often look tense and not through? Because in the past if anyone DARED to say such a thing the DQs on this forum would get very nasty. I put you among those DQs, like it or not, and your place there is well deserved.[/QUOTE]

I absolutely have seen videos of Salinero and Totilas in which they appeared tense, and it was not what I would describe as positive tension. OTOH, I’ve seen both horses perform some outstanding work. I’ve just never liked the thrashing these riders have taken on this board, and if that makes me a DQ, than I’m proud of the title.

Pssst, please keep me on Ignore. I think it would be better for your bp.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=suzy;7108884]
meup, where did CHS name any names? She made a general observation based on the lack of basics she witnessed in students who had been riding for a number of years. This was not a personal attack on an individual. I will assume that you are adept at teaching your students the basics, so you can be secure in the knowledge that she was NOT talking about you.[/QUOTE]

Did she employ the same level of critical restraint in her blog post that you seem to expect people to apply to her teaching (not the student, her teaching) in that photo?

Somehow I get the feeling that if a non-famous trainer were shown walking next to that horse they would be trotted out as a perfect (if not identified by name) example of everything that is wrong with local trainers. Or would THEN all of a sudden everybody be blogging, “it is just a moment in time, a student is a product of more than one teaching interaction, etc etc here is a laundry list of mitigating factors that may indicate the local pro is not leading this AA astray”?

Can I see there may be mitigating factors? Sure. No indictments based on one photo from me.

I would also like to see same applied equally across the board.

If you expect someone to cut her some slack and behave reasonably and fairly in any critique they might give, expect the same from her.

[grayarabpony]

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;7108593]
It’s no wonder some didn’t improve in her saddle.
http://centennialacresdressage.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/image6.png[/QUOTE]

There’s some serious chair seat going on with that saddle.

[suzy]

@meupatdoes;7108895

Did she employ the same level of critical restraint in her blog post that you seem to expect people to apply to her teaching (not the student, her teaching) in that photo?

I answered your question in an earlier post by basically saying that her editor let her down on this one. CHS is blunt, and she admits outright to being blunt. But that is the point of having an editor.

If a nonfamous trainer had been in that photo, I would have had the same answer–I really can’t comment because I could only make guesses (probably incorrect) as to what was happening in that moment of the lesson.

[ToN_Farm]

[QUOTE=grayarabpony;7108903]
There’s some serious chair seat going on with that saddle.[/QUOTE] It’s probably fruitless for me to say this, but my intent was not to insult the rider. It doesn’t matter whether CD told her to sit that way or if she normally sits less than good. My point is that the saddle sucks imo. You cannot take a straight front saddle and then have the rider have short stirrups. The knee will go over the flap. I have a very long thigh and short calf. Because of that, I ride in a forward flap saddle. If I were to sit in that saddle in the photo, my knee would be over the flap as well. The lady has no choice but to be in a chair seat if asked to ride with short stirrups in that saddle. My point (athough I’m sure it will be misunderstood) is that I do not think it is a good idea for CD (or anyone) to be putting riders in saddles that they or their horses weren’t measured to fit. Lastly, that photo was chosen by the clinic organizer to put in among other photos from CD clinic.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=suzy;7108916]
If a nonfamous trainer had been in that photo, I would have had the same answer–I really can’t comment because I could only make guesses (probably incorrect) as to what was happening in that moment of the lesson.[/QUOTE]

Yes, this is the answer YOU have and the expectations YOU expect of YOURSELF in the formulations of your critiques of others. In other words, you expect reasonableness, fairness, and a more holistic assessment of yourself.

Do you expect other people, including CHS, to also exhibit reasonableness, fairness, and a more holistic assessment? Do you think other people can hold those same expectations of anyone who is going to start a critique?

If CHS had held HERSELF to the same standards, her editor wouldn’t have had the opportunity to “let her down.”

It is unfair of you to tell everyone posting, “Now now, be FAIR when you look at the picture, CONSIDER THE FACTORS,” and then tell us all we should give CHS a pass for her major rant because “her editor let her down.”

[quietann]

[QUOTE=Plumcreek;7108866]
Drive-by comment: There is a solution to this - Riders 2nd level and above get a private session. Lower level or rabid snail riders get a small group lesson on improving basics. The group takes up less of CHS’s time, riders can maybe learn something, say that they clinic’d with BNT, and their instructors can see what CHS does with them.[/QUOTE]

I actually would really like something like that. I’m a very low-level rider and sometimes really do feel like trainers are wasting their time on me in a private. But even finding trainers (and riders) willing to do a semi-private is tough.

OTOH – supporting CHS’s contention – I have been stuck with a less-than-ideal trainer for the past couple of years… to the point where sometimes I feel like I ride worse now than I did when I started, though some things are better. I’ve been “on the fence” about dressage for a while and wonder how much of it is just the wrong trainer! So… starting the process of either switching or just quitting altogether as there is so much else I enjoy doing with my little horse.

[exploding_pony]

Wow - 34 pages. She certainly did spur a discussion about the state of dressage in the US!

[belgianWBLuver]

[QUOTE=grayarabpony;7108903]
There’s some serious chair seat going on with that saddle.[/QUOTE]

FWIW here are some more pics from that clinic :

http://centennialacresdressage.com/clinics/

including an additional one with that rider/horse couple taken from the front in which her leg appears to be in a more normal position. Methinks CHS was teaching her something specific - to explain a point.

When I had lunge line lessons years ago I used to pick up both thighs/legs to more effectively “roll” my seatbones under me and find the correct position. Then my instructor would tell me to drop my legs without changing the position of the seatbones. This at the walk and trot.

The other exercise we would often practice was a kind of bicycle kick on the lunge line to loosen up the seat, hips and thigh. Then resume the correct position. I still use this today as part of my warm up routine the first few minutes in the saddle.

[suzy]

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7108929]

It is unfair of you to tell everyone posting, “Now now, be FAIR when you look at the picture, CONSIDER THE FACTORS,” and then tell us all we should give CHS a pass for her major rant because “her editor let her down.”[/QUOTE]

People have editors for a reason; to ensure that they are conveying the information they want to convey, to make sure it flows from one logical point to the next, to pick up on errors, to make sure the introductory paragraph and conclusion tie together and, yes, to make sure the tone is appropriate. CHS is a trainer/rider/instructor, not a professional editor or writer. I think she could have stated her case better, but I also think she needs a better editor. She was relying on someone she thought was a pro and guess what!

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=suzy;7108963]
People have editors for a reason; to ensure that they are conveying the information they want to convey, to make sure it flows from one logical point to the next, to pick up on errors, to make sure the introductory paragraph and conclusion tie together and, yes, to make sure the tone is appropriate. CHS is a trainer/rider/instructor, not a professional editor or writer. I think she could have stated her case better, but I also think she needs a better editor. She was relying on someone she thought was a pro and guess what![/QUOTE]

Do you think that the people from whom you would like to see fairness and reasonableness in their assessment of CHS clinic photos have editors? Or do you expect them to treat that photo with fairness and reasonableness on their own?

You are expecting all of the commenters on this thread to behave to a certain standard of fairness and reasonableness, and we don’t have professional media handlers in our corner. Is there some reason why you don’t expect same of CHS?

I mean, you took exception to ToN critiquing that photo. I guess his/her editor just “let them down.”

[poltroon]

[QUOTE=quietann;7108947]
OTOH – supporting CHS’s contention – I have been stuck with a less-than-ideal trainer for the past couple of years… to the point where sometimes I feel like I ride worse now than I did when I started, though some things are better. I’ve been “on the fence” about dressage for a while and wonder how much of it is just the wrong trainer! So… starting the process of either switching or just quitting altogether as there is so much else I enjoy doing with my little horse.[/QUOTE]

In my humble opinion, it’s more important to ride with someone who is a good horseman than someone that is from your first choice of discipline. So for example, if you live in an area where you might have a classy reining trainer, you might learn more and progress further in dressage by working with him than by working with a mediocre dressage trainer.

[Foxtrot_s]

A brutally honest trainer should know how to teach. Teaching 101 is not to
speak to the negative, it’s pretty simple. Tell the student how to do it without making them feel inadequate. A keener loves to work and once things start to come together - basics installed - it is an exciting ride. All this negativity about the poor schmucks who pay the bucks is insulting.

Dressage, sadly, is living up to its reputation.

I do see Catherine’s point - as do several of these posters. I don’t like being lumped in with ‘most ammies’ as inadequate. I’d like to see whole clinics
geared towards those riders who feel they have holes in their basics, done by trainers who have the eye to fix the details. We cold all move on further and faster.

As in eventing - it is the green/super greens who make up the numbers, cheerfully bombing around courses, propping up the cost it takes to put on Prelim and Intermediate for the very few who go at that level.

If nothing else, this has been food for thought, but the posts come in faster than I can click on.

[Crockpot]

How do we even know that CHS is a great trainer of trainers? Any evidence of that? She says she is great at developing GP horses.

That is not the same thing.

I think the message would have been more credible if she had been more general in her comments rather than suggesting trainers need to come to HER.

Good lord. the ego.

[suzy]

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7108984]
Do you think that the people from whom you would like to see fairness and reasonableness in their assessment of CHS clinic photos have editors? Or do you expect them to treat that photo with fairness and reasonableness on their own?

You are expecting all of the commenters on this thread to behave to a certain standard of fairness and reasonableness, and we don’t have professional media handlers in our corner. Is there some reason why you don’t expect same of CHS?

I mean, you took exception to ToN critiquing that photo. I guess his/her editor just “let them down.”[/QUOTE]

Do you recall the thread in which a particular poster posted a video without the rider’s permission? Many of us thought, reasonably, it was up for review and critiqued it. It turns out that the rider had not given permission for the video to be posted and was understandably upset by our critiques. I felt terrible for being a part of it and apologized privately. I also made the conscious decision to not critique photos or videos unless the rider in the photo or video specifically asks for a critique. I was not trying to single out ToN as we tend to agree more often than not. But, for myself, I am not going to critique photos/videos without knowing the source of the photo and the rider’s intent, and I don’t know the intent of this rider.

By CHS’s admission, she has an editor. I have no way of knowing if it is someone she chose or if it is someone COTH assigned to her. The big difference is that CHS has not singled out any one trainer by name. She has made a generalization that is true to some extent—I just don’t know how much since I live in an area with some very good trainers in my own backyard or just a few hours away. However, there are some mediocre (and even poor) trainers in my area like any place else.

[quietann]

[QUOTE=poltroon;7109000]
In my humble opinion, it’s more important to ride with someone who is a good horseman than someone that is from your first choice of discipline. So for example, if you live in an area where you might have a classy reining trainer, you might learn more and progress further in dressage by working with him than by working with a mediocre dressage trainer.[/QUOTE]

Well, until I get this better figured out, I have switched to taking most of my lessons from the jumpers trainer (barn I am at has a weekly lesson requirement, which isn’t a problem for me at all.) I’m not saying he’s the perfect trainer for me, but his style fits my horse and me better. He does have some dressage background, too

The dressage person still rides my horse weekly; she’s a good rider but maybe not a great teacher (for me… others have done better with her.)

I would just love love love to see some trainers who specialize in the basics and aren’t afraid to advertise that. That said, I did spend about a year with an FEI-level trainer (had competed successfully at that level, short-listed for the Olympics about 25? years ago) and learned a lot from her. To be honest, I was mostly there to learn to not be afraid to ride my horse, and one of the things she was really good at was fixing “slight” horse-rider mismatches. There are times I wish I’d never left her, but I needed to have the horse closer to home.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=suzy;7109073]

By CHS’s admission, she has an editor. I have no way of knowing if it is someone she chose or if it is someone COTH assigned to her. The big difference is that CHS has not singled out any one trainer by name. She has made a generalization that is true to some extent—I just don’t know how much since I live in an area with some very good trainers in my own backyard or just a few hours away. However, there are some mediocre (and even poor) trainers in my area like any place else.[/QUOTE]

The reasonableness and fairness of critique is INDEPENDENT of how many people it is directed at or who it is directed at.

You can critique one photo fairly and reasonably (regardless of whether it was “up for” critique, the CRITIQUE ITSELF can be fair and reasonable), or you can paint a wide swath of ranting over a whole country full of trainers without fairness or reasonableness.

Whether you have an editor or not while you are doing this is also irrelevant, especially if most of the population is expected to be fair and reasonable without editors, and one individual gets a free pass because they “have a bad editor.”

[grayarabpony]

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;7108925]
It’s probably fruitless for me to say this, but my intent was not to insult the rider. It doesn’t matter whether CD told her to sit that way or if she normally sits less than good. My point is that the saddle sucks imo. You cannot take a straight front saddle and then have the rider have short stirrups. The knee will go over the flap. I have a very long thigh and short calf. Because of that, I ride in a forward flap saddle. If I were to sit in that saddle in the photo, my knee would be over the flap as well. The lady has no choice but to be in a chair seat if asked to ride with short stirrups in that saddle. My point (athough I’m sure it will be misunderstood) is that I do not think it is a good idea for CD (or anyone) to be putting riders in saddles that they or their horses weren’t measured to fit. Lastly, that photo was chosen by the clinic organizer to put in among other photos from CD clinic.[/QUOTE]

I’m not insulting the rider either. The rider can’t help it if the saddle puts her in a chair seat.