Catherine Haddad's latest editorial

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=suzy;7110127]
Jealoushe, I won’t put you through the painful process of reading through 38 pages of posts. I’ll just cut to the chase. Catherine observed at her clinic that a number of students who had been taking lessons for years from their regular instructors did not have solid basics–could not sit the trot, could not maintain a steady contact. She was not frustrated with them, she was disappointed that they are not getting satisfactory training. The onus is on the trainers, not the students.[/QUOTE]

Thank you, appreciated…!

[Crockpot]

[QUOTE=suzy;7110127]
Jealoushe, I won’t put you through the painful process of reading through 38 pages of posts. I’ll just cut to the chase. Catherine observed at her clinic that a number of students who had been taking lessons for years from their regular instructors did not have solid basics–could not sit the trot, could not maintain a steady contact. She was not frustrated with them, she was disappointed that they are not getting satisfactory training. The onus is on the trainers, not the students.[/QUOTE]

Oh come on. No.

Everyone agreed with that part of it. You forgot the part about riders ‘disrespecting’ her by showing up for a lesson, and the fact that she was ‘too busy’ to ask the organizers to limit the clinics to riders of a certain level but instead complains afterwards about the riders in a recent clinic after taking their money etc :lol:

best thing is to just read the blog entry yourself and form your own opinion.

[tryintogethere]

I was not going to chime in on this thread because Catherine does not need me to stick up for her, but flame suit on.
I rode with Catherine just this past weekend, one of many rides I have had with her, we did discuss her blog, oh by the way I am an AA who has shown through 3rd level. She has absolutely zero problem teaching AAs or lower level riders who have the basics down, but if you show up to ride with her unable to sit the trot, hold the reins correctly, have no concept of riding leg to hand or bending, half-halting, rhythm, relaxation and tempo, are unable to do transitions within the gaits and have no idea how to even remotely get your horse on the bit or even accepting of the bit, well then maybe just maybe you time and money as well as Catherine’s time could be better spent. Just sayin’.
I also want to address the saddle issue. I rode with Catherine in a 2 day clinic, I was in a saddle that did not fit me or my horse as she had a growth spurt, popped her withers finally and did a complete body change. I knew the saddle did not fit, had tried loads of saddles prior to the clinic and had actually ordered a saddle a few weeks before the clinic. Catherine watched me on the first day making some adjustments to my position, no mention of trying the Stubben until my ride was done, after we were done and cooling out Catherine asked me if I would consider trying the Stubben for the next days ride, I said I would try it but let her know I had previously ordered a saddle that would be in hopefully in a month or so and another saddle was not in my budget, she was fine with that no pressure from her to buy it.
I rode in the Stubben and LOVED it, for ME it is the right saddle, my big moving mare was freer through her back and I could sit so much better in it. No it is not the right saddle for everyone, that is why there are so many makes and models of saddles, but for me and many other riders it just works!
I will continue to ride with Catherine for as long as her program helps me and works for my horses, no I may not agree with every thing she says as a person, but we all get frustrated with our jobs sometimes and for those of us who do not have a fully functioning filter, things sometimes slip out in a way that may come across as hurtful when it is not meant that way at all.

[Kadenz]

[QUOTE=tryintogethere;7110213]
…but if you show up to ride with her unable to…hold the reins correctly…[/QUOTE]

This keeps getting mentioned, specifically by Catherine herself and several more times on this thread. I wonder: are there actually people going to dressage clinics who do not know how to hold reins?

Like, they hold them driving-style, or maybe they’re single-hand neck-reining?

Is this really happening?

Or, when this is mentioned, does it refer to misunderstanding of contact and other such things? Or does Catherine advocate a special rein-hold (although this would seemingly only apply to double bridles)?

[Bristol_Bay]

[QUOTE=rcloisonne;7110143]
Close, but no cigar. The book Rosemary read was “All Them Witches”. How I remembered that, I have no clue. Read Rosemary’s Baby when I was 15 years old and it scared me to death. Classic horror - sort of like the Dressage forum. ;)[/QUOTE]

I learn so much from this forum!:winkgrin:

In addition, many posters in this thread have their father’s eyes.

[SnicklefritzG]

It has nothing to do with change. The issues are the condescending and rude way Catherine expressed her views.

[QUOTE=suzy;7110137]
in response to snickle’s and spirit’s posts above

Change is almost always uncomfortable. I’m not sure that it matters who introduces it or how they state it–it’s painful. I think of the changes made in my work place by the most well meaning people with great ideas. Even though I know they are right and change needs to be made, it’s a bugger to have to learn a bunch of new, complex things and usually within a tight time frame.[/QUOTE]

[Crockpot]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;7110248]
It has nothing to do with change. The issues are the condescending and rude way Catherine expressed her views.[/QUOTE]

Yes so much disingenuous twaddle, so little time
but since we are haying today- should be able to get off this whacky trainwreck. . :lol:

[netg]

[QUOTE=suzy;7110089]
Snicklefritz, in dressage the score is far more important than the placing because the judges are judging against a standard not one horse/rider against another. I did look up CHS’s scores on Hotmail. I couldn’t find the most recent show, but her Florida scores range from 65.745 to 73.816. Four tests at I2 and one at GP version B. Most of her scores were high 60s and low 70s. Okay, maybe those scores don’t impress you, but they do impress me. Editing to say–although you probably know this–the shows in Florida are highly competitive.[/QUOTE]

She recently had a score of 71.something% in a GP test with Winyamaro - I’m guessing that’s the winning ride to which folks were referring. And a 71 sure isn’t shabby; especially impressive to this peon who dreams of that kind of score at lower levels when a horse has been rehabbing injuries for quite a while and is just coming back.

I’m curious about the holding the reins part, too. Does it mean puppy dog paws, actual wrong grip on the reins, not keeping fingers closed, reins too long? Perhaps all of the above.

[ise]

Spiritwalker - no one wants someone to sweet talk them. The missing ingredient for Ms. Staller is clearly TACT.

[SnicklefritzG]

I know you disagree with most if what I and several others say, but you need to stop reading into my posts. We are talking specific verbiage…not CDI vs …

If you feel so insecure as to have to tell people they are crazy or that there responses are, go home and have a beer or two …

[QUOTE=Spiritwalker;7110060]
Do you not see the craziness of this post.

If you have an understanding of riders at that level the distinction is implied. Again if the one in January was a CDI I will stand corrected. Maybe it’s something you should try doing?? I get you don’t like how she said things but now you are just picking her a part. Kind of like what a hyena does with the left over lion kill.[/QUOTE]

[suzy]

[QUOTE=Crockpot;7110207]
Oh come on. No.

Everyone agreed with that part of it. You forgot the part about riders ‘disrespecting’ her by showing up for a lesson, and the fact that she was ‘too busy’ to ask the organizers to limit the clinics to riders of a certain level but instead complains afterwards about the riders in a recent clinic after taking their money etc :lol:

best thing is to just read the blog entry yourself and form your own opinion.:)[/QUOTE]

Hey. Quit knocking my Cliff Notes version. I was trying to save her from a lot of unnecessary pain and suffering.

[wildlifer]

This is the thread that never ends. It just goes on and on, my friend. Some people started arguing, not knowing how to pause. Then they kept on arguing forever just because this is the thread that never ends…

[alibi_18]

h

[QUOTE=Crockpot;7110207]
Oh come on. No.

Everyone agreed with that part of it. You forgot the part about riders ‘disrespecting’ her by showing up for a lesson, and the fact that she was ‘too busy’ to ask the organizers to limit the clinics to riders of a certain level but instead complains afterwards about the riders in a recent clinic after taking their money etc :lol:

best thing is to just read the blog entry yourself and form your own opinion.:)[/QUOTE]

I understood her blog the same way as Suzy.

As for the disrespecting part, I agree with CHS and understand her frustrations.

How is she supposed to know beforehand that riders who want to pay 300$ for a clinic won’t know how to ride?

Who in their right mind would spend 300$ on a 45min clinic to learn how to ride?

What was CHS supposed to do? Turn them back home? No, she taught them the best she could. She was probably surprised that beginners would show up for a 300$clinic.

She knows that there is NO WAY, someone can properly teach basics in a clinic, there is just no time. CHS also knows that there is NO WAY a rider can learn the basics in just a clinic.

If a rider wants to learn how to ride, get regular lessons. I’m sure CHS would be more than happy to teach any beginners on a regular basis.

When you do a clinic with such BNTs (and for that amount of money), you need to get there with a plan, have a fit horse, be ready for your level, for improvement of your skills and understanding.

What is frustrating for CHS is to realise that people seem to have no other options but to shell out the big bucks for a clinic to learn how to ride or to have riders think this is the best way to learn? So yeah, it is a waste of the rider and CHS’s time.

CHS is a show rider and trainer. Why would someone who doesn’t train regularly or compete would want to sign up for a 300$ clinic? Obvioulsy, she was expecting more of those riders (skills/commitment) who were at the clinic.

A friend of mine had the possibilities of riding in a 2days(500$) clinic with a BNT. She’s at training level (on her good days). Money is no problem for her and her horse is gorgeous. But she decided to audit because it would have been a waste of her money and time. She takes lessons once a month with a good trainer for 50$.
She was really happy to audit because she got new concepts out of the others’ ride but she understood that the level of understanding needed to even follow what the clinician was saying at time was way above her level. And there was good 1st level riders.

I’m guilty of wasting the time of a few BNTs as well!!! I tried my best but really, I was disappointed of my rides at the time. Looking back, it must have been pretty frustrating for the trainer as well.

I’ve clinic back with some of them and was much more prepared and ready for the level and had a blast!

[4wdNstraight]

This thread is like the car accident you drive by, knowing you shouldn’t slow down to look, but find yourself rubber-necking along with everyone in front of you! Wow! I agree with the eventers that the DQ page is where it’s at! I keep saying I’m not going to read anymore but I simply can’t resist. I especially like the “no Regumate here” comment. This reminds me why I work in a male dominated industry. I think both sides have valid points which have been made. The beauty of the US is we can freely decide where to spend our money. If you don’t like CHS, then don’t go. There is more than one way to skin a cat, so everyone should work with people that inspire them. You should admire that persons’ riding ability, or at the very least, like the way they teach. Sometimes timing is everything as to when you are given info and how it works for you at that moment of time. I think we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water in this case. Was her message poorly delivered? I think so. That doesn’t mean she isn’t a good trainer or rider. Just because someone competes at the top of the sport doesn’t mean they are perfect. We all have our flaws. This may cost her some future business, or may get her new business. Time will tell. Each and every one of us can vote with our pocket book, and we do every time we write a check to any trainer. I agree with her that so many people are ok with making very little progress. If you don’t care about progress, that is a different deal. But I have to agree that many still flail about, all the while complaining that they are stuck at Training level for multiple years getting the same scores. Vote with your pocket book. Try another trainer. Even remote places usually have more than one option. This is one BNT. We have many throughout the country to experience. I try to keep an open mind of every FEI trainer and audit as much as possible. If you get one or two good things to add to your repitore than it was worth it. You don’t have to like them personally to find that they can train horses or riders. A closed mind will inhibit learning faster than a lack of talent. I am feeling very blessed to have a great local trainer who also exposes me to trainers with International experience. It gives one a very different perspective. I have made more progress in one year riding with her than in the last few years. Much of it was the timing of her message. I was ready for more finite bits of information. Some was that her program was clear to understand and clicked with me. My hope is that everyone can find their way to that person that inspires their riding and allows them to grow. Good luck and happy riding!

[Foxtrot_s]

If I came out of a clinic with one bit of information, or one skill that I did not have before; if I felt is was part of a missing building lock, - I would be thrilled. That would make the clinic worthwhile for me. Catherine could do that in the timeframe of a clinic if she was astute enough.

Rather like a cookery book - if there is one recipe that was really yummy and a keeper, it is worth the price of the book.

[SnicklefritzG]

Popcorn anyone?

[suzy]

Nyah, it was only popcorn-worthy up to about halfway through page 39. But, the sun is over the yardarm, so I think we could move on to martinis. 4wd and Foxy did a nice job killing the thread with their serious thoughtful posts. A pox on them both. :lol:

Adding for Foxy–so true about the cookbooks. I can’t cook at all, but I literally have at least 20 cookbooks. People who know me look at the bookshelf and nearly pass out laughing or shake their heads in disbelief. I think this qualifies me as a rabid garden cook.

[4wdNstraight]

That was the plan:D

[Eclectic_Horseman]

And the Mods’ plan was Off Topic Day. Hurrah for them, I say!

[ponypappy]

[QUOTE=suzy;7110089]
Snicklefritz, in dressage the score is far more important than the placing because the judges are judging against a standard not one horse/rider against another. I did look up CHS’s scores on Hotmail. I couldn’t find the most recent show, but her Florida scores range from 65.745 to 73.816. Four tests at I2 and one at GP version B. Most of her scores were high 60s and low 70s. Okay, maybe those scores don’t impress you, but they do impress me. Editing to
say–although you probably know this–the shows in Florida are highly competitive.[/QUOTE]

Suzy, So glad you brought Catherine’s Florida scores to our attention. The 73.816
you are referring was a “Test of Choice” score where she was competing primarily against amatures. She did’nt ride in “Big Boy” or should I say “Big Trainer” classes. Your right, Florida is the market to show what your made of. When you sign up for classes where you have to compete against the best, not the lowly students and trainers who can’t rise to your level. I find the hypocricy of this really enlightening!

FEI or Equivalent Test of Choice Open GAIG/USDF Q
(E) McDonald, © Yukins,
1 Catherine Haddad Staller Hotmail 2 73.092%
2 Katherine Bateson Chandler Alcazar 69.605%
3 Jennifer Marchand D’Escapado 68.882%
4 Jennifer Marchand Atomic 66.776%
5 Gary Lane Titaan 62.632%
6 Susanne Hamilton Lord Locksley 61.968%
Abigale MacLellan Encore 61.375%
Mary Bahniuk Lauritsen Rossignol ISF 60.592%
Jennifer Marchand Don Romeo 60.263%
Melanie Cerny Dante MC 59.671%