[QUOTE=Tasker;7102773]
If nothing else, go audit a clinic next time she is near your home base and judge for yourself before you cast a firm opinion of how you stand on what she has to offer. Or go watch her ride at a show.
flame suit zipped[/QUOTE]
But please, PLEASE do not attempt to ride in her clinic unless you are quite advanced because it really gets her in a snit and then when she gets in front of her keyboard with a glass of whine… watch out!
If I had alters, I would trot them all out to “like” Trevelyan’s post! Cut right to how I read Catherine’s blog.
[QUOTE=NCRider;7102765]
I’m guessing that riders like your friend are not the ones she’s talking about.[/QUOTE]
Maybe so. My friend is a very talented rider, but he really did have to tell her where the quarter line is and how to change direction through the diagonal. My bad, for not realizing how different “dressage” language is. But they both took it in stride.
This is what CHS said:
[I]Occasionally I get an advanced pair that can work on the basics in piaffe or passage or pirouettes. Sometimes I get the odd flying change problem to fix. Sadly, a large portion of my days away from home are spent teaching the most rudimentary fundamentals of riding to people who have already been in the saddle for a number of years.
Sure, I can advance their basic knowledge, but my talent lies in developing Grand Prix horses.[/I]
Tasker, thanks for posting your firsthand experience. I have no doubt that CHS is an excellent clinician.
IMO if it is her preference to teach only people who are developing GP horses, she needs to make that clear before her clinics. Not in a blog afterward.
[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7102522]
I think it’s really great that CHS can show us all how to maintain an open, friendly face while actually in the presence of the people who are handing you money hand over fist. This is actually an important skill for trainers to learn, to just smile and nod, blow some sunshine, and take the money.
The blog has just let us in to what thoughts are running through her head behind the smile.
Here’s hoping you guys were the “occasional advanced pair” she gets that can work on the basics in piaffe, passage or pirouettes, so that the rest of the blog, how she REALLY feels about helping “anyone who wants to learn,” doesn’t apply to you.[/QUOTE]
Man you are bitter.
Maybe you should clinic with her (or audit) and learn for yourself instead of freaking out on the internet and forming a bunch of off-base assumptions and opinions.
eh, my opinion of Haddad was formed solely by her own published words.
I believe her COTH blogs started with her bemoaning the state of international dressage, criticizing FEI judges, and whining about her low scores; then moved on to whining about not being chosen for US dressage teams, to griping about the appalling state of dressage in the US. All her own words.
Excuse me for not finding her public image to be super charming.
fwiw, I don’t quibble with her point. It’s true, imo, that dressage education in the US could improve, and that much of that improvement needs to happen in those who are TEACHING others. It’s her tone and her attitude I have a problem with.
But who knows, maybe she’s only overbearingly egotistical in writing, and not in person?
It also begs the question…who WANTS to ride with her? It’s not a seat or hand position I personally admire or want. That’s not spiteful it’s the truth. There are tons of upper level guys I admire and would gain lots from by just auditing. This one, no thank you. But that’s the beauty of the open market. She can choose who she wants, I can choose who I want.
Sounds like it would be like sending an up-downer to a George Morris clinic. Luckily, I don’t know of an h/j trainer who wouldn’t be able to put in words that that would NOT be in anyone’s best interest - most especially the up-downer who would be devastated and give up riding in less than 60 seconds.
I think this was the one good point of the article. People need to learn not just to ride, but how to teach. I think the idea of a program to “teach the teachers” is a great idea, and one that would probably get a lot of support. Teaching is NOT easy, and even regular teachers take courses and have mentors and seminars and training to help build their skills and teach them to teach better. That’s great! I’m all for that. But the way that it came across in this blog post, made it sounds like something she wasn’t interested in doing–because to teach the teachers, you need to help them teach those basic fundamentals, not just teach them the piaffe/passage/pirouettes on their own.
I get that some advanced/highly skilled folks don’t like teaching those at lower levels, in whatever arena, but I also know plenty of very skilled people in other fields who LOVE the chance to instill a bit of knowledge in young people on those just starting out. That’s important, because not only does it pass on skills, it passes on enthusiasm for whatever the activity, whether it’s riding or piano or politics.
[QUOTE=Dramapony_misty;7102545]Question…if George Morris wrote this article instead (only maybe talking about people who can’t post and haven’t properly jumped over anything bigger than and 18" cross-rail)…would y’all be throwing a fit and getting a your panties in a twist?
[/QUOTE]
GM does this, in a way, already. The clinics are divided into levels, usually starting at either 2’6" or 3’. So no, beginners aren’t riding in them. But that to me seems the appropriate, clear, and inoffensive way to set that bar. Simply state that riders must be working at X level (2’6" fences, 2nd level, Novice, whatever works for your discipline) and up, with auditors of all levels welcome. Problem solved, very few people offended.
[QUOTE=TickleFight;7102804]
Man you are bitter.
Maybe you should clinic with her (or audit) and learn for yourself instead of freaking out on the internet and forming a bunch of off-base assumptions and opinions.[/QUOTE]
What do I have to be bitter about?
No clinician I have ever clinicked with has, to my knowledge, publically blogged about how they think my level of rider showing up to their stuff is a disrespect to them. I have ridden with several people who actually made it to the Olympics.
I submit my videos and I get in.
Or I get asked to demo ride.
Or, if there are no requirements listed or applications to fill out, I simply send my check and show up. I would be pretty pissed if I read about someone who happily took my money for a clinic that was directly advertised to my particular level bitching about it later online though. But the people I ride with don’t do that so it’s all good. I feel no need to explore riding with those who do.
[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7102548]
Umm…
There is nowhere that she says she doesn’t like teaching these people?
Take off the rose colored glasses, people.
YOU (all of those “yous” who lessoned with her who weren’t the “occasional” canter pirouette pair) ARE WHO SHE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT HAVING HAD TO TEACH.
YOUR TRAINER IS THE ONE SHE THINKS IS “PASSING OFF TRAINING PROBLEMS TO VISITING CLINICIANS.”
Just because she smiled at you and made nicey nice over your haflinger does not mean she didn’t leave that driveway thinking, “Man, does that trainer ever run a deluded sh*t show. What an awful display.” And any trainers/facility owners who sent lower level riders in to ride with her to fill the clinic up? You’re on the list too.[/QUOTE]
IMO every one of those statements you quoted was directed at the trainers in this country. Trainers need to do their job and instill correct basics and foundational knowledge so that the rider CAN benefit from CHS’ and they need to ensure their students are at a place where they can actually understand and benefit the instructions an international rider is going to give them in the clinic. If you don’t do your students the favor of getting them to that place then WTH is the point of encouraging them to waste their time and money riding with a BNT?
[QUOTE=TickleFight;7102264]
Until the average dressage student is willing to put in the time and effort to really learn and improve - and take constructive criticism and honesty from their trainer - things will stay the same.[/QUOTE]
Or until the trainers are able and willing to give honest, realistic, constructive criticism…in such a way that their clients understand that just because they come swaddled in money doesn’t make them instant experts.
I don’t know about bitter; maybe some people. But for me, honestly her attitude just completely turns me off - the egotism when she assumes that she’s completely qualified to teach the American dressage trainers, and that they’d all be doing well to seek her out.
I, personally, don’t care for her riding. She’s quite obviously not a bad rider, and I agree that her talk sounds great, but then I see (as in the photo chosen to accompany this blog) that her horse’s back is dropped, his hind legs are in the next county, and his chin is pretty much sitting on his chest. Riiiight.
Or in her own video, posted by herself when she was still in Germany, exhibiting the “accordion” exercise, which she completely failed to ever actually show in the video. When questioned on that, she got into online forum arguments and claimed that it was TOO COLD for the horse to perform the exercise. Oh, and he’s young. Riiiiight.
Oh, and the low scores she complained about while in Germany? They were due to favoritism or lack of education on the part of judges. Riiiiight. Because all those judges are idiots.
So maybe, just maybe, not EVERYONE IN THE WORLD agrees that she is going to save American dressage, one clinic at a time.
[QUOTE=ccoronios;7102832]
Or until the trainers are able and willing to give honest, realistic, constructive criticism…in such a way that their clients understand that just because they come swaddled in money doesn’t make them instant experts.[/QUOTE]
Yes, perhaps when CHS is done teaching one of her Get Connected clinics she can give the home trainer who organized the whole thing some honest, realistic and constructive criticism about how they are shunting their training problems on to her, it doesn’t speak well for their training skills, and by the way every last one of their students is disrespecting her skillset.
Show us how it’s done!
But somehow everyone who leaves one of her clinics seems to think she was soooo niiice and she just lluuuuurrrrrrvvved them and was so happy, so yippers mcskips!, to be teaching their sorry @$$es.
Huh.
Honestly, if I wanted to teach with passion, I’d want my students to come with passion. I’d want them to be more than the once-weekly lesson taker.
A very keen, quick study, with trainability and concentration would be a thrill to work with, even if they were basic. She would not have to break any bad habits.
Dressage is expensive, these people charge a lot - some can afford them and not have the ability, some have the ability and cannot afford the BNT. It is tough.
I actually see her point. She is not for the likes of me, or even my former riding self.
I have never ridden with CHS and I am an eventer so please take my opinion on this article with a grain of salt.
I see where she is coming from. Honestly, I understand how frustrating it must be to try and teach dressage to someone who cannot get their horse on the bit. My friend is an older AA and I have worked with her countless hours to try and teach her basic dressage. It is a slow process because she is learning everything new, rides with me once a week, and doesn’t keep contact well. If I was at GP level, which I am not nor will I ever be, I would be frustrated if she were dumped on me instead of a AA who knows how to get a horse on the bit, who knows collection and extension, and who is up for learning some cool stuff. My friend is a good learner but I know which one I would pick.
I can ride a Prelim dressage test and I can do collection and extension at the w/t/c, I can do counter canters, lead changes, halt to canter transitions and canter to halt transitions, shoulders in/ haunches in at the trot, and 10m circles at w/t/c while on the bit and sitting the trot. In the dressage world I am a freaking beginner and I understand that but I want to learn more. I take clinics with straight dressage people on my little TB who is out of place every time but always game and fancy enough to LEARN.
Maybe one day I can do pirouettes or passage or tempi changes but not now. If I saw a flier for her and it said 4th level and above, I would call and see if she would take me in the clinic. If she said no then that’s life, but at least I showed some initiative to be part of the clinic not because of my trainer but because I want to be there. I think a lot of people can be pressured to ride with a clinician by their trainer. When I was younger I was and I know I am not the only one.
Another thing is that there is some horrid dressage “trainers” out there who cannot teach and cannot ride themselves. I can count ten off for every one legit trainer in my area. So many trainers need help and need lessons. FACT.
CHS is correct in that aspect and though the article sounds a bit elitist, it isnt far off base. Trainers need to be trained so they can train their AA’s at Intro to be on the bit and understand rhythm because I sure as heck see that lacking when I make my way to dressage shows.
I don’t think we can compare George Morris and CHS. George gave up competitive riding long ago and has decades of dedicated teaching experience and multiple successful students.
Wait a second…
Did she say “advanced” only? or did she say “people still learning how to go on the bit are not ready for a clinic of her caliber”?
[QUOTE=NOMIOMI1;7102879]
Wait a second…
Did she say “advanced” only? or did she say “people still learning how to go on the bit are not ready for a clinic of her caliber”?[/QUOTE]
“To show up for training with an accomplished rider before you are ready to benefit from his or her knowledge is bad form and disrespectful. I am often taken aback when clinic slots in the United States are filled with riders who can’t even put their horse on the bit.”
“I am finished with all existing clinic commitments in September. October and November are wide open. Wide open, that is, to anyone who can organize a clinic with at least three or more trainers participating on multiple horses. If any slots are left unfilled, an advanced student of any one of the trainers is welcome to join the fray. And as much as I love teaching ANY student who loves to learn, I’m staying home until clinic organizers get smart about this. I have a deep pocket of skills. Let me use them.”
[QUOTE=eponacelt;7102311]
How do you (or Catherine) KNOW that they don’t get it and are clueless? Did you ask them?"[QUOTE=eponacelt;7102311]
I can’t speak for Catherine, but yes, I did ask them. One of the things I like about being an “L” Graduate officiating at a schooling show is that I am allowed and encouraged to talk to the competitors. Many times in the ten years I have officiated at these shows I have asked people after their Training Level ride, which contained NO 20 meter circles, if they know the dimensions of a dressage ring. Their answer is of course no, because if they had understood that the tangent points of a 20m circle in the middle of a dressage ring are B and E, they would have at least made an attempt to touch either side of the dressage court.
Notice that I do not ASSUME that they are clueless. I want to understand what they know so that I can hopefully help them ride a better test next time.
I have also had many people ride for me who not only don’t know and understand the Training Scale, they have never heard of it. How do I know? Because as I am explaining how they can make the score better I might say, “Your rhythm is very erratic and if it were more steady it would improve the quality of your gaits and your score could improve. You understand about the Training Scale right?” This brings an explanation from the rider which clearly shows me that they either don’t understand or have never even heard of the concept!
Catherine Haddad can teach whomever she likes, whenever she likes, wherever she likes. That is her prerogative. I have never seen her teach, ridden with her, or even seen an advertisement for her clinics. But being that it’s her business, she can run it as she feels is best, the same way you have the freedom to either ride or not ride with her. But I don’t really see anything in her article to be offended by. It’s presented as an editorial. That means you will hear her opinion. She gave it. You can choose to take offense to it or you can look at it, see that she has some valid points for your riding, apply them and move on. Or ignore it. That’s your prerogative.
[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7102859]
Yes, perhaps when CHS is done teaching one of her Get Connected clinics she can give the home trainer who organized the whole thing some honest, realistic and constructive criticism about how they are shunting their training problems on to her, it doesn’t speak well for their training skills, and by the way every last one of their students is disrespecting her skillset.
Show us how it’s done!
But somehow everyone who leaves one of her clinics seems to think she was soooo niiice and she just lluuuuurrrrrrvvved them and was so happy, so yippers mcskips!, to be teaching their sorry @$$es.
Huh.[/QUOTE]
Given that you’ve decided to hang your shingle as a self-professed “pro,” it might behove you to watch what you say on public forums. The shrill, shrewish, and antagonistic tone of many of your COTH posts may cost you future clients.
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