Catholic Boy

[Brigid]

He’s a ridgling.
Does this mean that the testes are so far up into the abdominal cavity that surgery is not an option?

I’ve read on here that there were some very famous - still famous breeding stallions - that had only one testicle descended into scrotum. I’ve no idea if these TB stallions had one or none dropped. IOW: were they monochordism or cryptorchidism (sp?) stallions - I ‘think’ I read some of them (if not all) were surgically corrected before racing age.
So my question is:
A ridgling these days would be a one where a vet wouldn’t find the testes without serious digging?
Thanks in advance!

[LaurieB]

It means that one or both testicles are not descended (usually one.) Perhaps the most famous TB sire who is a ridgling is A.P. Indy. I believe his half-brother Summer Squall was also one.

In the case of a TB colt, no one “goes digging” unless there is some obvious discomfort on the part of the horse.

[Brigid]

Thank you, Laurie B.
I know what it means.
But what I was wondering was: why not geld C.B.?
I never recall A.P. listed in the Racing Form as a rig, or some of the other colts I read in here being a ‘mono’
I cannot remember the topic, but I recall something about there were other colts that had a bit of surgery to get one or the other teste to drop

[Where_sMyWhite]

Why would you geld Catholic Boy before determining a possible career at stud? His performance on the track has certainly been decent enough (first in both the Travers G1 and Belmont G1 this year along with a 4th in the Florida Derby G1) to show he should at least be considered for a career in the shed when his career on the track is finished.

As LaurieB said, if he isn’t showing discomfort, leave 'em alone until he shows a reason otherwise.

It certainly didn’t appear to hinder A.P. Indy’s career in the shed.

[Laurierace]

A horse with no testicles descended would not be fertile enough to stand at stud successfully so it is safe to say that any horse with a stud career has at least one descended.

[sk_pacer]

One thing - ridglings can be prone to testicular cancer; that is what killed the great Cam Fella.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Laurierace

A horse with no testicles descended would not be fertile enough to stand at stud successfully so it is safe to say that any horse with a stud career has at least one descended.

This I knew (at least one needed to be descended).

I didn’t see in the OP if Catholic Boy was completely undescended or one had descended. A quick Google search just refers to him as a ridgling but no comments on count

[Where_sMyWhite]

@sk_pacer

One thing - ridglings can be prone to testicular cancer; that is what killed the great Cam Fella.

That would be a fine line to walk for sure with a ridgling with breeding potential or has shown to be a nice producer. Breed to get the offspring and take the risk vs geld and loose the bloodlines from that specific stallion.

[Texarkana]

@Brigid

Thank you, Laurie B.
I know what it means.
But what I was wondering was: why not geld C.B.?
I never recall A.P. listed in the Racing Form as a rig, or some of the other colts I read in here being a ‘mono’
I cannot remember the topic, but I recall something about there were other colts that had a bit of surgery to get one or the other teste to drop

If you don’t mind me asking, why do you think he should be gelded?

From a racing perspective, he is a multiple G1 winner from a productive enough family. Being a ridgling has not been a complication for his racing career, as he has reached the very top of the sport that all aspire to reach. There have been a number of successful ridgling stallions, as others have eluded to. Although fun fact-- many ridgling stallions get their retained testicle removed at some point in their stud career.

[snaffle1987]

if both testicles are retained in the body cavity, the horse would most likely be infertile. The reason being is the temperature of the body is too warm to keep viable sperm. If one is retained in the body cavity it is not much of a big deal so long as he is fertile enough with one. If you’re planning to geld the horse; its a bit more of a problem and requires surgery to remove.

As noted above, there are complications with ridglings if planning to keep them for stud duties (high chance of cancer) so they typically opt to remove the retained one once the performance career is done.

[Palm_Beach]

@Brigid

Thank you, Laurie B.
I know what it means.
But what I was wondering was: why not geld C.B.?

Vets rarely geld ridglings. As others have said, it can be hard to locate the missing testicle and a very tricky surgery. So you leave the horse completely intact. You never remove the testicle that is already descended.

[Palm_Beach]

@Brigid

He’s a ridgling.
Does this mean that the testes are so far up into the abdominal cavity that surgery is not an option?

I’ve read on here that there were some very famous - still famous breeding stallions - that had only one testicle descended into scrotum. I’ve no idea if these TB stallions had one or none dropped. IOW: were they monochordism or cryptorchidism (sp?) stallions - I ‘think’ I read some of them (if not all) were surgically corrected before racing age.
So my question is:
A ridgling these days would be a one where a vet wouldn’t find the testes without serious digging?
Thanks in advance!

This is a pretty good article.

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/somethings-missing-here-explaining-ridglings/

[Brigid]

OK. I guess I’m confused (as usual) as wording goes. I thought a crypto meant neither teste was descended, in which the horse would be sterile. Whereas monorchidism meant only one was dropped and other was retained or missing.
I thought (wrongly) that A.P. Indy and others had the retained testicle removed before racing.

So with only one dropped and the other removed is it now a colt or still ridgling? What about after 5yo - a horse or rig?

Thanks, all for setting me straight. I do appreciate all of your patience with my misinformation or ignorance.

[Texarkana]

I think you are getting bogged down with vocabulary.

AP Indy did in fact have his retained testicle removed… I think around the time he started training? But that still classifies him as a ridgling.

Cryptorchidism is the medical condition that means either one or both testicles haven’t descended. The individual is called a cryptorchid.

Ridgling is more or less a synonym to cryptorchid, however it is animal-specific. It doesn’t have anything to do with age. If you remove all testicles, retained nor not, the horse becomes a gelding.

Monorchidism is used to describe the condition with only one testicle, either because one was retained or never developed. But you would still call the horse a ridgling.

But heck, maybe I have some misunderstandings, too. :lol:

[Brigid]

Nah, Texarkana. I’m just getting older and maybe senile?
My aunt is certainly one of those getting old, older and grumpy … um. Well you know. I think ‘crotchety’ was for old men. What would one call a late 70’s (I think?) woman? crotchety-ess? A wise but opinionated old , b****?
She’d be the first to say it, lol

[Toblersmom]

@Texarkana

If you don’t mind me asking, why do you think he should be gelded?

Well, in most domestic species, cryptorchidism is considered a significant heritable soundness (in terms of overall health, not movement) defect. It’s a disqualifying fault in show dogs, I think. Breeders of racehorses may be more willing to accept dealing with the prospect of getting a higher number of colts with cryptorchidism and the consequences (needing abdominal surgery to remove them in in most instances, for instance), in exchange for race performance. Breeders of animals with more global goals of overall long-range health and soundness of future generations should generally castrate them.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Correct, dogs (male canines) are checked in the conformation ring that both are present (yes, people have been known to “fake it” but that is pretty rare). Bear in mind in the conformation ring you are looking for conformationally correct breeding stock of which 2 descended testicles is part of that.

Once you move from conformation to performance, AKC (at least and the only registry I am familiar with) will allow neutered dogs to earn titles.