A News Channel 5 reporter is a friend of mine and says it was not a double decker, the story will run tonight.
Wow, this thread is strange.
I am certainly not an animal rights activist, nor to I have anything against slaughter per se…although I do think it should be as humane as possible.
But…38 horses with tags on one trailer. If it walks like a duck…yeah, I’m not seeing how these were going anywhere but to slaughter. I don’t agree with 38 horses on one trailer, at all. No way is that humane, especially for a long haul. But, that’s me, and while I personally have a problem with it, I can see how others might not. That’s why it’s called an opinion, and everyone’s entitled to one. So, can we please stop attacking because some people DO have a differing opinion? Also, arguing over the semantics of this is odd to me…how many times are 38 horses with tags hauled together in a semi when they’re NOT going to slaughter? Not many, I’m betting. If you don’t have a problem with that, fine. Just say that. But I’m not seeing the “Oh, nooo, they weren’t going to slaughter…they were going to a trainer in Oklahoma to be sold as riding horses” bit. Because OK is in such need of low end horses that they have to ship them in from TN? 38 at a time? Not buying it.
Noooo, RedMare – if you care about humane treatment of animals and acknowledge that there ARE lot of people out there who don’t give a damn as long as they make a profit…you are obviously a crazed activist who releases lab bunnies into the forest and has no grasp of reason. :eyeroll:
As per the growing cultural trend, it is now frowned upon to use critical thinking and ask questions about situations that appear unethical. But you should never allow that trend to stop you from doing both of those things without fail.
[QUOTE=RedMare01;6086483]
Wow, this thread is strange.
I am certainly not an animal rights activist, nor to I have anything against slaughter per se…although I do think it should be as humane as possible.
But…38 horses with tags on one trailer. If it walks like a duck…yeah, I’m not seeing how these were going anywhere but to slaughter. I don’t agree with 38 horses on one trailer, at all. No way is that humane, especially for a long haul. But, that’s me, and while I personally have a problem with it, I can see how others might not. That’s why it’s called an opinion, and everyone’s entitled to one. So, can we please stop attacking because some people DO have a differing opinion? Also, arguing over the semantics of this is odd to me…how many times are 38 horses with tags hauled together in a semi when they’re NOT going to slaughter? Not many, I’m betting. If you don’t have a problem with that, fine. Just say that. But I’m not seeing the “Oh, nooo, they weren’t going to slaughter…they were going to a trainer in Oklahoma to be sold as riding horses” bit. Because OK is in such need of low end horses that they have to ship them in from TN? 38 at a time? Not buying it.[/QUOTE]
QFT (quoted for truth) THANK YOU RedMare01!
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;6086289]
Some of these teams, specially trained to manage many species of animals in situations like this one and not just horses, also carry their own insurance to cover the volunteers who go through the training and are available to help when the time comes.
Again not so they can ‘help themselves’ to horses, but because they want to help if they are needed, much like volunteer ambulance and other rescue teams do.
This is not to argue who should have helped, luckily they had all the help they needed in this case, but to clarify your obvious misunderstanding of how these teams are assembled and function.[/QUOTE]
I know that I had to sign quite the waiver when I signed up with STERN (similar idea to DART). Of course, no waiver is iron clad, but those protections are in place.
[QUOTE=Neely;6086385]
For what it’s worth, jumping all over someone who doesn’t think just as you do, implying that they are stupid, ignorant, or radical, doesn’t make your argument look stronger. It makes you look ignorant and radical yourself. No one asked me, but the hostility of a few of you on this topic really stuns me. It seems to me that the best response to (so-called) radicalism would be reason, not rantings. Not everyone concerned with the welfare of the animals in a given situation is out to spread RARA propaganda, and those that are will only feed off of your hostility. If you want people to know where you are coming from and learn from the infinite wisdom you seem to think you have, maybe try using some intelligent conversation.[/QUOTE]
Well said.
I guess this is why they wait for DART and whatever group to show up and don’t allow any Tom, Dick and Harry off the side of the road to help out.
[QUOTE=Alagirl;6086667]
I guess this is why they wait for DART and whatever group to show up and don’t allow any Tom, Dick and Harry off the side of the road to help out.[/QUOTE]
Well, yes. However, in this case, they turned down the DART team. From what I’m hearing locally, they are restricting access and avoiding questions as much as possible. Of course, that’s gossip, not fact, at this point.
I don’t think it’s possible to carry that many horses appropriately on a trailer, but if someone knows differently, I’d love to see how it would work. I’m not sure I buy that crowding up the trailer helps the animals in some way. We don’t put our horses on trailers so tight that they are “holding” each other up, right? They should be in sufficient shape to hold themselves up just fine, I’d think.
It would be interesting to know the weight limit for that trailer type.
[QUOTE=wildlifer;6086619]
Noooo, RedMare – if you care about humane treatment of animals and acknowledge that there ARE lot of people out there who don’t give a damn as long as they make a profit…you are obviously a crazed activist who releases lab bunnies into the forest and has no grasp of reason. :eyeroll:[/QUOTE]
That made me laugh out loud. Thank you.
Interesting…checked google maps for the farm owners address. Not that big a farm, maybe 15 acres including a wooded, rocky back pasture. Two tractor trailer rigs in the picture, one by a large barn. Strange looking mound/
circles…round bail feeders. No livestock visible in this picture…no idea when it was taken. Not that big a place for 38 horses except as a holding area.
Oklahoma has had its share of drought problems…Here in north Texas, we’ve had a fair amount of rain the last couple of months. Enough we had to mow
recently and things are almost spring green. One barn was going to do a hay cutting a few weeks ago. However, we’ve had now had a hard frost so all
that will be left is the winter grasses. I’ve had blooming dandelions. Anyway,
unless these were very special horses, I can’t imagine much of a market here
or in Oklahoma. Or anyplace with unlimited lush grass to make it worthwhile
shipping them here. Very odd!
[QUOTE=WildBlue;6086794]
That made me laugh out loud. Thank you.[/QUOTE]
Second Thank you!
[QUOTE=Neely;6086385]
For what it’s worth, jumping all over someone who doesn’t think just as you do, implying that they are stupid, ignorant, or radical, doesn’t make your argument look stronger. It makes you look ignorant and radical yourself. No one asked me, but the hostility of a few of you on this topic really stuns me. It seems to me that the best response to (so-called) radicalism would be reason, not rantings. Not everyone concerned with the welfare of the animals in a given situation is out to spread RARA propaganda, and those that are will only feed off of your hostility. If you want people to know where you are coming from and learn from the infinite wisdom you seem to think you have, maybe try using some intelligent conversation.[/QUOTE]
Do you realize that jumping all over some that doesn’t think like you do is exactly what you are doing there?
Yes, some are questioning the hurry to judge it was a DD trailer, until it seems it is not.:rolleyes:
Then how the horses were hauled, something we don’t know, straight loads do have partitions in them, you know.
Then if the tags of course have to be slaughter tags, conveniently forgetting all sale barn horses get tags.
Then if the weight is right.
Then, if all that was fine, something else will be thought to make a case for certain mentalities to get all up in arms.:no:
There are plenty of horses hauled in DD and large straight loads in the West.
Many of those are rodeo stock, dude ranch horses, any one that has larger numbers of horses to move.
That is how they have done it for half a century, how the BLM did it for decades, how many still do it.
It is done safely, unless a driver falls asleep, which may even happen with someone hauling one horse back from a show.:eek:
Yes, use logic and you will see why some may say, hey, wait a minute, don’t get your ammunition out quite yet to start the blame game, at least find out more first.
This was a terrible accident.
No reason to pile it on quite yet, to get the lynching ropes ready, wait to know more first.
[QUOTE=RedMare01;6086483]
Wow, this thread is strange.
I am certainly not an animal rights activist, nor to I have anything against slaughter per se…although I do think it should be as humane as possible.
But…38 horses with tags on one trailer. If it walks like a duck…yeah, I’m not seeing how these were going anywhere but to slaughter. I don’t agree with 38 horses on one trailer, at all. No way is that humane, especially for a long haul. But, that’s me, and while I personally have a problem with it, I can see how others might not. That’s why it’s called an opinion, and everyone’s entitled to one. So, can we please stop attacking because some people DO have a differing opinion? Also, arguing over the semantics of this is odd to me…how many times are 38 horses with tags hauled together in a semi when they’re NOT going to slaughter? Not many, I’m betting. If you don’t have a problem with that, fine. Just say that. But I’m not seeing the “Oh, nooo, they weren’t going to slaughter…they were going to a trainer in Oklahoma to be sold as riding horses” bit. Because OK is in such need of low end horses that they have to ship them in from TN? 38 at a time? Not buying it.[/QUOTE]
I feel the same way as well!!! THANK YOU.
Yeah, I am not buying this. So the horses are headed to a drought stricken area, to be put out on a range for the winter… where they will be prepped to be sold to “horse owners”.
I don’t about you, but when I am prepping a horse for sale, “putting them out on the range” is not the first step. It is however how our neighbors finish their grass fed cattle before they are sold.
[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;6086053]umm no…there is a safety number associated with the number of head per sq feet…
too much distance to wiggle about and the animals can actually topple/shift the trailers enough to wreck them esp on curvy roads
do I advocate over packing no…but there is a safety science behind it as well[/QUOTE]
Well, or there is the more costly, and SAFER to the animal way to haul horses, the way most of us are familiar with. Hauling horses in HORSE TRAILERS (not stock trailers) costs more. Packing them in, IS the CHEAPER way to haul horses. Its not done for their well being. It is done because of $. If safely and well being of the horse was top priority, they would be hauled in the commercial horse transport rigs we are familiar with (standing stalls, box stalls, air ride etc).
These horses were hauled like meat animals. Which the owner is claiming they were not.
[QUOTE=Appsolute;6086844]
I feel the same way as well!!! THANK YOU.
Yeah, I am not buying this. So the horses are headed to a drought stricken area, to be put out on a range for the winter… where they will be prepped to be sold to “horse owners”.
I don’t about you, but when I am prepping a horse for sale, “putting them out on the range” is not the first step. It is however how our neighbors finish their grass fed cattle before they are sold.
Well, or there is the more costly, and SAFER to the animal way to haul horses, the way most of us are familiar with. Hauling horses in HORSE TRAILERS (not stock trailers) costs more. Packing them in, IS the CHEAPER way to haul horses. Its not done for their well being. It is done because of $. If safely and well being of the horse was top priority, they would be hauled in the commercial horse transport rigs we are familiar with (standing stalls, box stalls, air ride etc).
These horses were hauled like meat animals. Which the owner is claiming they were not.[/QUOTE]
Ooops!
Guess we better hide our stock trailers, that around here 99% of the horses are hauled around, to work cattle, to rodeos or team pennings, cuttings, some times along with a few cattle.:eek:
Better hurry up and make laws against stock trailers, they can’t possibly be safe.:rolleyes:
You do realize that to demand all horses be hauled in “horse trailers” of your definition is like demanding all humans vehicles have to be Mercedes?
[QUOTE=Bluey;6086852]
Ooops!
Guess we better hide our stock trailers, that around here 99% of the horses are hauled around, to work cattle, to rodeos or team pennings, cuttings, some times along with a few cattle.:eek:
Better hurry up and make laws against stock trailers, they can’t possibly be safe.:rolleyes:
You do realize that to demand all horses be hauled in “horse trailers” of your definition is like demanding all humans vehicles have to be Mercedes?:p[/QUOTE]
Do you cram your horses into your stock trailer so that they can’t move? You misunderstood me, and don’t think I am some sort of dressage queen. I LIVE in ag country, and my horse lives on a working cattle ranch. The rodeo grounds are right down the street. I used to own a “stock trailer” that I hauled my horses in, granted, it was an extra tall, because I have TBs, and standard stock trailer isn’t going to cut it.
My point was, I don’t think it is ever “for the safety of the horse” to cram 35 horses in one trailer. And to insist you cram the horses in for the own safety, and not because of $ is foolish. If $ wasn’t an issue, the horses would be transported in a way that they each had their own space. Like what a horse trailer provides. Cramming them in is done to save $$ not because its “good for the horses”.
[QUOTE=Bluey;6086852]
Ooops!
Guess we better hide our stock trailers, that around here 99% of the horses are hauled around, to work cattle, to rodeos or team pennings, cuttings, some times along with a few cattle.:eek:
Better hurry up and make laws against stock trailers, they can’t possibly be safe.:rolleyes:
You do realize that to demand all horses be hauled in “horse trailers” of your definition is like demanding all humans vehicles have to be Mercedes?:p[/QUOTE]
A) Do you haul 38 of your horses in a stock trailer at one time?
B) Can you find me a trailer (anywhere, any kind of trailer) legally capable of hauling 38 adult, full size horses at one time?
C) The owner stated these horses were going to OK to be sold. They are not rodeo horses, BLM horses, or dude ranch horses. What does that logically leave?
[QUOTE=Bluey;6086828]
Do you realize that jumping all over some that doesn’t think like you do is exactly what you are doing there?
Yes, some are questioning the hurry to judge it was a DD trailer, until it seems it is not.:rolleyes:
Then how the horses were hauled, something we don’t know, straight loads do have partitions in them, you know.
Then if the tags of course have to be slaughter tags, conveniently forgetting all sale barn horses get tags.
Then if the weight is right.
Then, if all that was fine, something else will be thought to make a case for certain mentalities to get all up in arms.:no:
There are plenty of horses hauled in DD and large straight loads in the West.
Many of those are rodeo stock, dude ranch horses, any one that has larger numbers of horses to move.
That is how they have done it for half a century, how the BLM did it for decades, how many still do it.
It is done safely, unless a driver falls asleep, which may even happen with someone hauling one horse back from a show.:eek:
Yes, use logic and you will see why some may say, hey, wait a minute, don’t get your ammunition out quite yet to start the blame game, at least find out more first.
This was a terrible accident.
No reason to pile it on quite yet, to get the lynching ropes ready, wait to know more first.[/QUOTE]
I think the questions are reasonable, and it’s not like this is a lynch mob. It’s a discussion board, where people are discussing the event.
[QUOTE=katyb;6086930]
I think the questions are reasonable, and it’s not like this is a lynch mob. It’s a discussion board, where people are discussing the event.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you didn’t read certain post carefully enough?:no:
What one persons lynch mob is andother persons burn at the stake.
I love that you really think there is a discussion.
Let see so far there’s been new arrivals to post propaganda and false statements.
Assumptions made by people that were not there at the accident scene.
Many of these to just promote an ARA agenda.
