CDE Carriage Recommendations

I am starting to shop around for a CDE carriage and there are so many options. What would be a good carriage for a single, 16.3 h horse? I am short, so need something that adjusts for my size. I also would like something that I can move up the levels in.

Some of the carriages are lower slung. I know it is supposed to reduce weight and improve speed and stability but I am not sure that I want to sit that low behind my horse. Opinions?

http://www.colonialcarriage.com/item.cfm?id=1197

Do you prefer a bench seat with a wedge or just a single seat?

http://www.coyaltix.com/ma42b.php

http://www.drivingessentials.com/glinkowski_models/glinkcar_pop4.php?ID=1"

Do you prefer seating on side in back or a removable dressage seat?

http://www.diamondhcarriages.com/2011/07/23/sh2-sportive-horse-pairsingle/

And then there are all the other features with brakes, suspension, weight, wheel size, delayed steering, and material it is made of. LOL … a bit mind boggling especially when I know that the best way to figure out your preference is by buying something you don’t like.

Okay and now harnesses. I have a biothane harness made by Tom O’Carroll. Should I upgrade it? Recommendations?

Thanks!!!

Feedback on this one? http://www.carriagedrivingessentials.com/shop2/Lessing-Marathon-Carriage-with-RAD-Horse-size-single-and-pair.html

www.colonialcarriage.com

Todd Frey is building some really great carriages. He’s got great prices for the quality, and some new designs for marathon vehicles. He’s also active on some of the driving lists which keeps him in touch with his customer base.

Thanks! I did look at the Stingray Marathon, but wasn’t sure if I wanted to sit that low behind my horse. The carriage in the photo appears to be pulled by a pony … big difference versus a 16.3 h horse. He also has the Dartmoor, Futura, Mustang, and Batmobile. So many choices!

My horse is 16.2 and I have a Glinkowski Marathon 100 that I am very happy with. It’s actually my third Glinkowski that I’ve been very happy with.

Take in to consideration that if you really sit high enough to completely see over your horse your carriage will be quite top heavy and not as stable.

Look at some event photos at the difference between marathon and presentation carriages. You will notice that in dressage/cones you do sit much higher than in the marathon vehicle.

I do know this horse is 17 hands, take a look at the dressage and marathon photos. The marathon carriage is a Kuhnle standard horse size.
http://www.picsofyou.com/store/index.php?do=photocart&viewGallery=22925#page=1

Happy Shopping!

Thanks so much!!

We also have a Glinkowski carriage, its a Pony Sport as we drive a 13h pair of ponies :slight_smile: We have owned the carriage for 10 years now and we couldnt be happier with it! Jack and Jan (who sell the carriages out of driving essentials) couldnt be more helpful! We had some small issues with the carriage when we set it up for a pair and they delt with everything quicky and did not charge us anything extra. Great customer service!! Love them!
We also purchased a Glinkowski Marathon III (light weight single carriage) and I also love the way it drives. We are now looking to purchase another Pony Sport with some upgraded features in the next year or so.
I must say, our 10 year old carriage has held up so well and has worked amazingly well for us. We use it almost every day at home and of course we use it in competitions and knock on wood, we have had no issues with anything. It still looks almost brand new and cleans up really well.

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1237862_10153213835080046_1638976530_n.jpg
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Here are 2 pictures of our 10 year old marathon carriage from a competition this year. We usually bring 2 carriages, one for dressage and cones (a phaeton - which does sit a lot higher than this carriage) and we use this one for the marathon only. But we can’t always bring both carriages, which is why my husband likes the Pony Sport. He likes it as you can clean it up and it can looks nice for presentation, and you can take it apart and make some changes (he takes off the mats, removes the front seat and places the drivers seat in the middle, removes the brass rein rails - he caught his lines in those once, so no more rein rail for hazard day!) etc.
There are a lot of nice carriages out there, but we have been super happy with ours :slight_smile:

Regarding sitting high or low… I’ve been taking lessons lately and the trainer has pointed out the benefit of having a seat that is offset, you can see ahead of the horse much better. Its true, I’ve been driving her horse and then coming home to drive my own and it a big difference.

I have a Pacific Dartmoor which, for a starter vehicle I could not be happier with. Mine is a pony size, 13.2-14.2 and I have my 14.3 morgan put to it. He is a bit big for it, but as he’s only a smidge over pony size, I wanted to stick with pony sized for the weight.

While I sometimes feel a bit low, having made an unexpected flying dismount from my carriage earlier this year I would not want it any higher :lol:

[QUOTE=showjumpers66;7222661]
Feedback on this one? http://www.carriagedrivingessentials.com/shop2/Lessing-Marathon-Carriage-with-RAD-Horse-size-single-and-pair.html[/QUOTE] Celine CDE is very knowledgeable and will give you good guidance. I would also buy from John Freiburger at Hickory Knoll farms. I helped a friend shop and looked at many designs and saw people try and sell her something that was not suitable

Oh and a friend of mine bought a new upgraded Zilco at CDE and is very happy with it

I can’t wait to get a marathon carriage. My best tid bit of advice is- watch the weight and make sure you can physically move it through whatever conditions you personally need to move it (without the horse). haha! Also be sure it’s balanced. Whatever type of carriage you choose.

I have a 16.2 horse and I was told for his size, the marathon carriage should weigh somewhere around 450-550 #. I tried moving a 500# carriage once, and I couldn’t move it at all by myself. So, out went the idea of getting him a marathon carriage! ha!

I hope to get the new Frey Stingray when I’m ready to buy (2014!!!..) in PONY size, so I can stick with a size that I can physically move through my conditions. hahaaa!! But the Frey Carriages, at the Stingray especially are very light weight. I think the full horse weighs 450#.

Going to speak up here about getting vehicles that are too small for your equines. A 14.3H horse in vehicle for 14.2H equine, is probably not an issue for the horse to manage, not TOO small for him except at the dashboard height.

But putting a LARGER equine into much smaller vehicles is going to be an issue as you continue to use the vehicle. First off, the smaller vehicle is built to strengths that smaller animals have. Large horse is weightier, stronger, MAY be able to just break a small, light vehicle by his exertions in various situations where strength is needed. We all LOVE to see horses gallop the water hazards, but that is using strength for forward, while vehicle is fighting water drag. Perfect setting to pull apart a vehicle with opposing forces, maybe break the kingpin, welds under the driver seat.

The other thing is that the too light vehicles are more tippy, without the heavier weight of wheels and axles down low. Groom leaning hard, swinging body around on light vehicles, with no weight down under it, is going to get you in trouble at some point. We have a single horse, 4-wheeler, weighs about 400 pounds, is a taller type for the driver to see. We have used it for Tandem, training the young horses to go with 4 wheels behind. It has HEAVY, wide wheels, with HEAVY axles, while the rest of the frame is tubing, wood panels. Rolls easily, but we drive it behind large horses, 16-17H. Put on two people, and load is up to almost 800 pounds on a 1500 pound horse, just a bit over half his weight. For a fit horse, that is not a bad load to manage on Marathon. We KNOW horse is not going to damage the vehicle with strong forward lunge to move ahead. Even with standing groom, Driver seated in centered seat, weight of wheels and axles is going to be hard to tip on turns or sudden bursts of speed. Sorry, it is home built, no others like it.

A number of years ago there was a huge surge of folks wanting to “save weight on my horse in Marathon” thinking. They went to hitching Pony vehicles behind everything, and a number of problems developed almost immediately with this practice. I saw vehicles being lifted right off the ground, front wheels rising every stride of the equine! Horses getting hit in the hind cannons, with too low, to close hitching of the small vehicles. Front bar for shafts or pole wasn’t even hock high on the horse!! Lots of damaged vehicles, which broke at bad times, horses were too strong for the construction and metals used.

So you need to look at what other CDE folks have done in the past, learn from their mistakes, and don’t repeat them. The technology has changed so MUCH every few years, that it is amazing what you find on vehicles these days.

If possible, OP and others looking at new purchases, should ride in the vehicle, drive it. Everyone has a different view of “perfect” in what they want to drive. Those details are what makes you happy or unhappy with a carriage. Centered seating is fine on a Single, but not going to work as well for Multiples where you have to see further ahead for turns, clear spaces. Husband likes the centered seating for his Single horse training, Tandem of narrow width, but needs the right hand seating for his Pairs or the Fours. Have to see where you are aiming them! He also wants to be seated high enough to see ahead of horses, plan his route. He always drives seated on a wedge seat for better body/leg position, able to use his upper body with the reins. Driver never gets a seat back.

So add this thinking to your buying list of options, desires. How hard to you plan to compete? Totally all out, will mean a vehicle that is going to fit your exacting tastes, probably built by the better name folks, European things. Competing less hard, means you still mean to play well, but are not going to take as many chances, push as hard, so other kinds of vehicles will still satisfy the job you want done as you build your skills.

I am going to say shop Used Carriages if this is the start of your CDE activities. You have less in the vehicle, which you may not like as well with time, maybe want to change to another make carriage. It HAPPENS all the time. So don’t pay New price to start out. You can probably resell the vehicle for what you have in it, get another used one to try and not go broke losing money. You will be learning a lot in the next couple years if you stick with CDE Driving, and your expectations will change with lessons and time spent behind your horse.

Ask folks WHY they like their vehicle, what they would change on it if they could? CDE is constantly evolving, with options that work or get dropped in later designs. I have to say NONE of us dreamed of brakes on the 5th wheel 15 years ago!! Lots of other cool stuff out there.

Thanks so much for the advice! My apologies for disappearing for a couple of months … the stallion test was kicking my butt. :slight_smile:

I am picking up my mare from training and am taking lessons before bringing her home. It was obvious quickly that my 2 wheel road cart won’t work for her. She has so much impulsion that she bounces the cart no matter how they balance it. And, she is elastic and swingy and the wooden shafts are too restricting for her. I had been looking for a used 4 wheel carriage during the last couple of months, but haven’t had luck. The trainer has a cart that we are modifying to work. I drove her in it today and she felt fabulous. I am concerned that it might be light for her, but he thinks it will be fine. I hope that this cart will work for me for the next couple of years so that I have a chance to figure out what I would like to have ultimately.

Here are pics of the carriage -

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https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/64195_10202087831950212_129007345_n.jpg

I will post new pics once the modifications are finished, but a step was added to the front on each side … no way I could get in without it. A bar and hand holds were added to the front as well along the back of the seats. Stops were added for shafts. The back springs were replaced. A whip holder was added. Brakes appear to be new. Any other modifications that we should do? I was thinking it might be nice to add a bench / knee rest in the back like this - http://www.carriagedriving.net/classifieds/user_images/1422058.jpg

I am not a fan of the yellow pine look and the wood is a bit warped/weathered, so we will replace the wood. I think we will go with a dark oak or mahogany finish but was thinking about painting the wood high gloss black with red trim. The metal needs to be sanded down and then repainted. Thinking black for all except the wheel spokes which would be red. The seat upholstery is okay, but has a couple of tears. Again would like to do it in black with red piping. Just concerned that the red will be too much if we stain the wood rather than painting it. Opinions?

Questions first. Will you be driving alone most of the time, or do you have someone who will be with you on your drives? Reason for this is to figure if you need to add weights to the vehicle. The vehicle you are showing us, does better carrying weight over the rear axle for braking, keeping the wheels down in turns and travel. If you always carry a rear passenger when driving, you have the weight on the axle. If you drive alone, there is no weight back there to help. If you have no 2nd person, you add dead weight back there, just have it in place all the time, ready when you need it. Also good to help condition horse to fitness needed for pulling two people on course! If you have part-time help, I would still leave the weight on the vehicle, good to “stress” the horse sometimes, with overweighting the vehicle during a drive.

Weight can be bolted to the underside of back step, out of your way, but always ready to go. Easily removed when you compete. I would suggest using about 200 pounds, weight of a fair size passenger, not going to kill off your horse to pull it, even if you have a passenger with you sometimes. We use plate steel, stacked, in 50# pieces so they are manageable to put on. Got the plate at a junkyard, had a welding shop put the holes in, cut and align the pieces for bolts. I never had good luck with buckets of sand, bags of dirt, etc. as cheap weight on the back end, tied in place. Didn’t stay in place during drives, was mostly too high above the axles when you need weight down low to prevent tipping.

The seat behind is always nice, but will you really be using it much? Does keep the Groom further back, so they have to reach, lean, to get good grips on the bars they hold onto. Nice place to step UP on for water crossings, keep their boots dry!

Were the back springs just replaced with new springs of the same style? Changed to a total new type spring or shock system? For CDE, you want a vehicle sprung rather hard, no cushy ride. Gives you crisp turns, groom CAN move it sideways if needed. Cushy springs just sink under the weight, no rebound for moving sideways off a post. Of COURSE better driving will keep you OFF any posts, so Groom just is along for the ride anyway!

Is this the vehicle your Trainer hitched your horse to, that you say she did well in? Because it is not a cart. It is a 4-wheeled carriage. Carts ALWAYS have ONLY two wheels, and it will greatly confuse other Driving folks if you call it a cart in discussions.

You will want to learn about brakes, how to service them, adjust them, bleed them, and about how to apply them when driving. Brakes are an AID, so they WILL NOT stop the carriage on a dime, nor halt your horse when you put brakes on! If you hit them hard, that back end WILL jack-knife on you, swinging to one side or the other. Could throw your horse off stride or sideways!! Learn to use your brakes LIGHTLY, just to HELP the horse. You don’t have front brakes, so only one pedal to worry about.

Depending on the color stain you use on wood, a red pinstripe can look very nice or not even show up. Width of the striping can be wider, so it is more visible, two widths of striping or even another color than red. Dark horse, dark vehicle, is not going to let your narrow red pinstripe be visible from any distance. Could be just a dark shape out in the Dressage field, with your clothing the only spot of color. Black is a nice color, easy to keep looking nice with touchups, but it needs to be VERY clean when you go out. Like a black car, EVERY thread, bit of dust, shows up plainly. I would not recommend red spokes, unless this is for Marathon only. Marathon vehicles are not traditional to begin with, so almost any color mix is fine, and some quite exotic wheel color combinations, patterns, are seen on popular vehicle makes. Red piped seats, could limit your clothing choices to things that go with red. Might not make a happy outline going around your body when seated, like framing you. You could chalk the present seat edges, take a couple seated photos, see if you like it. You just want to avoid having too many colors and contrasts, when seated on the vehicle. No more than 3 colors between seat, and your clothing, hat, laprobe. Too busy is distracting, turns into a mixed color blur from a distance, not a sharp, tailored appearance with one bright spot of attractive contrast in hat or scarf, blouse.

Here are some photos of well turned out drivers from a bit of distance. Look at them to see what you notice first, how much (if any) of the little things can be seen by the Judge way OVER THERE. Thank you Metamora Photos, for such an extensive collection of photos to view! You can wander the other pages of photos, see what is out competing in clothing, vehicle colors, contrast or blending with the equine they drive. I have tried doing the matchy-matchy stuff, didn’t work for me, nor did choosing “my own” paint scheme to drive in Carriage shows. Ended up repainting, so a pricy mistake. It was a long while ago, when Standing Presentation was MUCH more picky, subjective, than what is done now.

http://www.metamoraphoto.com/gallery/thumbnails-196-page-11.html

Traditionally on more formal use vehicles, colored wheels are seen on vehicles with same colored bodies. Sporting type vehicles traditionally have dark colored bodies with pinstriped bright color wheels AND bright, matching color undercarriage. The vehicle in this photo IS pinstriped, but not very visible from a distance. Vehicle is done as Sporting Vehicle in color choices, with the louver sides, it classed as a Dogcart.

http://www.metamoraphoto.com/gallery/displayimage-196-9837.html#top_display_media

Thanks so much! You are always such a wealth of information and I have so much to learn. Yes, this is the carriage that my mare likes and the one which I was most comfortable driving in. What type of carriage would you consider it so that I am using the proper terminology?

I will probably be driving mostly alone eventually, although I am going to start with always driving with a groom since I am so new to this as is my horse. My biggest concern is giving my horse a bad experience which I would like to avoid at all costs. I drove the carriage with the trainer’s assistant on back and it does have a better feel with someone standing on the back. The bolt on weight is a fabulous idea and one that I will make use of.

We were looking at the back of the carriage and it looks like it is set up for a drop in groom’s seat. Maybe we should make a new groom’s seat or a kneeling platform which could be removed. It can go on the wish list along with new paint, new upholstery, new wood, etc. Also need to fix that squeak!

The back springs were replaced with a spring of the same style and, in my uneducated opinion, I would say that they are stiff.

I have been reading old posts here about brakes. Is there a good resource online for learning how to maintain the brake system?

I am leaning towards replacing and staining the wood a darker color than going with black for every thing else. I do like the carriage that is black and red for the louver sides and the wheels, The photos were a big help. I see what you mean about tying the look together. Black and red are our farm colors so trying to work with that, but red is not my color. LOL I think it would be best to be as neutral as possible.

Here is the video from today. My mare has 90 days with the trainer and Wednesday and Friday were my first drives with her. I have only driven a couple of before and both times were experienced driving ponies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9dTHtCqmfE

I have a Kutzmann that might work for you very nice mare. email and I will send picture.

Thanks, Richard.