A friend is buying some frozen semen from a private party, who purchased it from Celle. The stallion is a well-known, long-time Celle stallion.
It is supposed to be 2 “doses” but I reminded her that the number of straws is important.
It’s been years since I used a Celle stallion, but they used to all be packaged 6 straws to a dose. Now another breeder says she just got DeNiro in only 2 straws per dose (!).
How many straws per dose is standard w/the Celle stallions or does it vary THAT widely?
My experience so far with Celle stallion semen is that they come in 8 straws per dose. I KNOW it depends on the stallion but so far that has been the norm with the semen I purchased.
As far as I know DeNiro is not at Celle however and I have no idea how many straws his doses come in…
You’re right – I was thinking DeNiro=Hanoverian=Celle. Not really paying attention.
It depends on the stallion AND the collection year, since they changed the number of straws and even the type of straws for some stallions.
In my experienced the Celle state stud is very helpful answering questions like this and they can also send you specific thawing instructions, if needed. Just send them an email.
Sundance is correct. Older freezings are likely to be 4 straws. Newer ones likely to be 8.
DeNiro is now frozen in 2 straw doses, used to be 4. Celle usually 8 straws per dose.
WE used Epsp, Gesmerey and he was only 3 straws. I have noticed that many of the stallion are coming in odd numbered low doses. With the vets becoming more adept with deep horn Inseminations, i wouldn’t be surprised if the SO’s want to make sure the Mo’s aren’t splitting the doses and get several foals from only one dose.
The semen I have from Celle has always been 8 straws per dose. Prestige VDL and Worldly were 6 straws, and Cassini II was only 2 straws.
Judy, that certainly is the case for some stallion owners (ie DeNiro’s). Super irritating from a mare owners perspective.
Not true about #s of straws as always being 8 or always being 6 or 4.
It completely depends on the stallion from Celle as to how many straws they pack per dose for a stallion. If the stallion has poorer semen or weaker motility, you’ll get 8 straws, maybe even more to constitute a dose. If the stallion has good to exceptional motility, it will be fewer straws. You actually do not really want to see 8 straws in your dose because it means the motility is not as good as other stallions.
I have a dose of Dannebrog who is from Celle - it is 4 straws. I have a dose of Royal Blend from Celle and that is 8 straws. They were both collected and packed in January 2012. I have other doses that were as little as 2 straws, or an odd number of 3 straws constituting a dose.
Celle will always be straight-forward and answer any questions about each stallion and what constitutes a dose. You will need to know the date the straws were collected/packaged so they can check their records.
A quick email to Celle confirmed what many of you said: even among the Celle stallions there is going to be some difference in what constituted a “dose.”
However they said “in general” their stallions are currently 4 straws per dose, but prior to 2006 it was 8 straws.
As others have pointed out, it’s tough to keep every one honest here.
In this case, the semen is being bought from a breeder who bought it from a broker who bought it from Celle.
So another question: have any of you ever bought semen like this, and if so, would you have expected the original paperwork from Celle to follow the semen so you can verify the information?
Glad you re-confirmed with Celle.
In my experience paperwork gets notoriously lost. Don’t know, what everybody else’s experiences are? Therefore I do not necessary expect the papers to come with ‘second hand’ frozen.
The straws can be tracked via their imprint/number. The labs, where the semen was frozen and even the brokers (at least most of them) have it on record.
However, if you do not trust the source, better don’t buy! There are too many ‘if’s’… Even IF you get the correct number of straws, how do you know, IF they have been stored appropriately? Always transported without running out of charge? Not previously thawed for any other reason?
What are you going to do, if the semen is dead? How do you know and proof, it did not happen when you transported/stored? And even if there is an insurance for it, you still deal with having a mare ready to be bred and not having semen available (plan B highly suggested;)).
… that said, I’m a very trusting person and in respect of the frozen I was lucky so far. Mind you, I always bought from people I know.
[QUOTE=Donella;7029604]
Judy, that certainly is the case for some stallion owners (ie DeNiro’s). Super irritating from a mare owners perspective.[/QUOTE]
And IMHO, absolutely ridiculous. First of all, when mare owners buy a frozen “dose” of semen from Europe, we don’t get a live foal guarantee (at least that’s the “norm”). It’s a complete gamble for mare owners, often to the tune of well over $1,000 a pop. We should be able to inseminate as many mares as we want with that frozen “dose”, and the stallion owner can calculate in their part of the gamble in the price. They don’t stand to lose anything by selling a frozen “dose”. If they’re worried about mare owners splitting doses, then 1) Don’t sell frozen 2) Only sell frozen with a LFG and a single mare contract. Also, I may be wrong, but isn’t a “dose” is determined by a minimum quantity of swimmers there are post thaw? I thought there was a legal minimum, no? Of course, the fact that they’re swimming doesn’t mean that they’re viable – and again, the gamble is the mare owner’s. And finally, even with fresh shipped a mare owner could potentially split a dose, so claiming it’s an issue only with frozen is silly.
Rant over.
Agreed Judy. If we want to take a risk that is our risk to take because we spent the money AND because we get no back up if it doesn’t work. I am guessing that there are WAY more situations where a mare owner gets no pregnancy using the full dose than situations where a mare owner gets two pregnancies from one dose.
I absolutely 100% agree with this. Breeders should be able to buy a dose of frozen semen and there should be no restrictions on the use of it. Over the last 15 years I have had far more negative preg tests than positive with frozen semen and spent an absolute fortune on frozen semen
De Niro is coming out in 2 straws only because the owners do not want people getting more than one foal per dose and they said if they hear of this they make people pay another service fee
I said to them I think that the amount of negative preg tests far outweighs a few people who might get a couple of pregnancies from a dose but they were adamant about this
actually to be honest, a lot of frozen semen from Germany is sold with no restriction as to use. I know this because I imported my own frozen semen to Australia once, and most of it is sold this way, there are a few studs like Klosterhof Medingen who only allow one pregnancy per dose but almost all the dutch stations and Sprehe and Klatte and many other stallion stations sell it with no restriction
it is in fact the semen agents themselves that put the restriction on the semen for only one pregnancy per dose, not the stallion owner
so take it up with the semen agents
Paulamc
De Niro is coming out in 2 straws only because the owners do not want people getting more than one foal per dose and they said if they hear of this they make people pay another service fee
Good luck to them on that one. You can’t MAKE someone pay another fee when you sell semen without a contract just the same way I can’t MAKE Medingen send me another dose if my mare doesn’t get pregnant. What an idiot.
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