Cervical remodeling, SI pain, RF lameness, shoulder pain... pull me out of the rabbit hole

Well a $200 pair of hoof boots would definitely be cheaper than another vet visit :laughing: I’ll still go to the vet, but worth a laugh anyway.

I do think I just need one size up from my other mare but I was tired of trying to sort out the sizing issues with them in Australia. Aside from that fiasco, the Scoot boots are extremely nice. Love them.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

For real though, if you’re concerned foot pain may be part or the equation, try boots for a couple of weeks of 24/7 wear. I’ve seen some very amazing and weird things happen with booting that I don’t think could have been replicated with shoes and pads to be honest.

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I think some kind of protection for the feet is worth a try that is relatively inexpensive. Have you tried sedation for the farrier to see if that helps her comfort?

The first time I injected the neck of my horse with arthritis, we injected C3-4, 4-5, and 5-6 bilateral. He had a lot of behavior issues and a couple of front limb proprioceptive oddities that were related. There was some behavior improvement after 2 weeks as far as willingness to go forward, but we didn’t turn a corner on the other things until after 4 weeks.

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PSSM2 seems to have similar symptoms and the neurologist has suggested. We are going to have a conversation with her in the next week or so and will make the determination then. I think the neck is a higher probability, but I’m not a vet… Also, my horse is a warmblood and though there is very little PSSM1 showing up in warmbloods, there is PSSM2 being found. In the end, neither one is good, unfortunately

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I’m not sure which I would prefer to face. Feel free to let me know what they find or decide. I’ll post my discussion with the vet as well.

Well not much to report yet.

Talked to vet thoroughly on Monday, went over his findings again, how I hadn’t seen any improvement from the injections, and discussed the what nexts and possibilities. He said that her being neurological is real low on his list, and thinks it’s a pain issue. He said we could do a bone scan which I told him that I couldn’t do ($3000). He was fine with that and agreed we should check for EPM/Lyme, and also do a 3 day bute test as apparently the equioxx test I had done originally can be unreliable. We had some real terrible weather this last week and so I started the bute test this morning. I didn’t know if I should be optimistic it would work or not, and I felt trepidation at getting bucked off if my mare suddenly felt fabulous after 7 months.

Bute test day 1: Hauled out to neighbor’s arena because it was too slippery at home to ride. There seemed to be improvement on the ground. She was standing a bit more square during tacking up. She was good for PT stretches and exercises and only mildly leaned back when I was lifting the right front leg instead of dramatic sitting back. I lunged her first and she seemed forward and up off her front end to the left (with an excellent second canter depart, first she picked up the wrong lead). To the right she was obviously still stiff, but reasonable forward. This was somewhat improved from how she was lunging before, but kind of similar overall. Watching her to the left gave me some hope that she would also feel better under saddle. At first she felt looser in the back, but as soon as we went to trot, ugh. Same thing as before. The vet did say I might not be sure until the third day.

Things of note:

  1. We were on soft ground vs when I ride at home which is harder, sadly didn’t think of this comparison before starting the bute test.
  2. Posting trot is the worst, if I sit I can get her to flex a tiny bit more.
  3. Doesn’t work out of it or into it, it’s immediate and lasts the whole time in the trot. Will offer to relax and flex at walk (not asking 100% of the time), trot is almost unrideable but can get a few moments. Canter is better if I don’t trot much beforehand, but if I trot too much first say goodbye to the canter.
  4. Felt more swing in the back at the walk first this morning - someone suggested checking back. Seems reasonable.
  5. Obviously something about rider weight/me/trotting/posting exacerbates the issue. Early on I did try a bareback pad (one of those fluffy christdream ones) and still got that same response.

I circumstantially have a new farrier coming next week - my current farrier needed heart valve surgery so it will be interesting to see what the new guy sees. I did re-look at her hinds and maybe they are worth x-raying when I have some more money. @Amberley

Thinking I should get someone else to sit on her when the bute test is done to rule out me as the problem.

Not sure what to hope for on day 2.

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Would be great to get some pix of her standing from front, back, and each side, and video if you can get it.

What kind of video? My friend is coming out today so can get ridden video of someone riding her

Video in all gaits, preferably alternating between inside/outside on the circle, for example, and from front and back as horse is going. Front is a little harder - don’t get run over! :slight_smile: Seeing transitions will be useful imho.

Here’s hoping you get improvement from bute test. We tried this a week or so ago on mine and no difference at all. We are back and forth between vertebrae malformation and PSSM2/MFM or maybe EPM. CT scan would certainly clarify the neck issue but at roughly $4k, that’s not my first choice. Going to do tests for the other things next.

If your horse worse when ridden, that could be sign of some nerve compression when weight is added.

Its so hard in these situations to narrow the list of options in a logical manner.

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I have a feeling there won’t be improvement. I’m leaning towards something nerve related or EPM at the moment but wanted to do the bute test first before making the next vet appointment. I have been hyperaware of anything weird she is doing/might be doing and there are a couple things that pinged my brain for EPM, but (of course!) could also be from some other issue. Most recently I noticed when her grain is really soupy she has a very difficult time getting it into her mouth, and will stretch out to, what looks like, get it further in her mouth. She does not do this with hay or grass but I have seen her a few times dunk her mouth in her water while eating and clear it out, like hay got stuck somewhere in her mouth. I read a few things about EPM and how it can cause issues with the lip/tongue area and not necessarily in the chewing/swallowing muscles.

On your guy, you can do the genetic test for MFM, I did it last year. MFM, EPM would be the least expensive next steps for you from what I’ve seen. @fivestrideline suggested trying a PSSM2 diet for mine, maybe that would be helpful for you too if he’s in stable condition? I did read that the c6/c7 malformation could possibly be seen with a 30 degree rotation when x-raying. Maybe another possibility? But I’m right there with you… trying to figure out what’s the most important to spend money on or what could maybe be likely but would be relatively inexpensive to rule in or out in the meantime is exhausting.

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Re the malformation - have oblique xrays from pre-purchase 3 yrs ago. Vets then and more recently at his clinic workup said those showed slightly enlarged facets but no obvious abnormality. Ultrasound also done at clinic said mild roughening at c4/5 and 5/6 but did not appear to be cause for his issues. He mentioned something about "steps’ on C-6 and couldnt really get to C-7. Suggested the CT.
MFM/EPM tests will be done later this week.

Thanks for thoughts! How I wish he justed needed a couple joint injections…

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FWIW, my boy has done the same thing while eating. He’s been evaluated every which way including skull xrays and it’s just a thing he does.

Interesting. I know sometimes horses are just weird!

I was out of town and came back to find a hard lump on mare’s jawbone this morning, so it’s possible the eating thing is related. Unsure if it’s a tooth infection or what, but palpated a bit sore. We have yet another vet apt next week to do EPM test and look at the lump.

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I glanced over your post …I would have your horse evaluated by a neurologist/specialist…I have a Dutch mare that had similar symptoms as yours …she has suspected EDM as well as cervical arthritis…my mare was evaluated by New Bolten Center -full neuro workup , myelogram , X-rays & bloodwork…

I spent many years with doing injections , chiro /acupuncture/ shoeing /barefoot, saddle fit etc …save yourself from continuing down that rabbit hole and see a neurologist & internal medicine specialist/

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@ladipus What symptoms are similar to your mare? We did have improvement during the bute test on day 2 and 3. Pretty significant improvement on her relaxation and way of going.

Unfortunately I can’t afford to do a myelogram or any other significant diagnostics at this time.

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Rushing the jumps where she previously was always spur and stick kicking quiet …disliking bending /collection , fussy with bits , tossing her head , kicking out when asked to canter …left lead very strung out , wanting to be on front end …scuffing hind toes, wide stance and swinging wide behind , becoming increasingly anxious and spooky , and mildly ataxic in general …occasional dullness about her /blank stare…occasional lameness up front

I’m sorry for what you went through with her. I read some of your posts and is this the same horse with MFM?

Testing for PSSM2 at some point is on my list.

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Thank you …no different mare (also Dutch Wb) with the pssm2/MFM/VEM , asthma, & prior laminitis

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Arg. Horses are so hard.