Chambon- gimmick or training aid?

[goldenstirrup]

I am thinking about getting a chambon for lunge work with a young horse. After doing some research. I learned that it puts pressure on the horse’s poll only when he lifts his head, therefore encouraging him to stretch down. Some classical dressage trainers use it as well.

I don’t want to take shortcuts in my horse’s training, will using a chambon do any damage? I want him to get consistent with stretching down without a rider before I even think of backing. Stretching and going forward is better than him going around like a giraffe I think, let me know what you think! TIA

[mvp]

I’d own a chambon before any other lunging device, including the much-venerated side reins that are part of the standard dressagist’s repertoire.

The chambon works well for the mechanical reason you state. By my way of thinking, I actually only want to control the base of the neck and, if I could, I’d ride even the young, weak horse so that he lifted the base but left his nose sticking out. For this reason, I don’t love it that taking contact usually gets a horse to tuck his nose first and raise the base of his neck (with some added stuff like impulsion), second. If I’m a skilled rider, of course, I can finesse all this to get the posture I want. But a fixed device? Usually, the horse will curl behind the pressure in his mouth before he’ll raise the base of his neck and withers. I think the chambon is simple, correct and “generous”-- it only puts pressure on his mouth (and then, on the corners of his lips, not the bars) if he inverts or raises his poll badly as in having his neck “upside down.”

A few more caveats:

Lunging in equipment can get you only so far. It takes a good eye and diligence to get the horse to move up enough into the device that he actually uses the rest of his body correctly. If he’s “behind the leg” so to speak, you are wasting your time, his legs and just creating a head set.

I also think a chambon encourages “long and low” and, IMO, dressage riders can over-do that. Yes, a horse should be able to take all of the rein you feed him. But that’s just a skill to have, not one to drill, really.

For horses with a screwed-up relationship with the bit, however, taking a rider out of the equation and putting in a simple, predictable device works really well.

Buying a chambon can be tricky. Some of them come in wacky-large dimensions… so large that you can’t punch enough holes in the leather to make it fit even a regular-sized horse.

ETA: Personally, I would not try to teach my horse any relationship with the bit or any particular position for his head until he had W/T/C, steering and whoa in tack. I think dressagists put way more emphasis on how the horse feels in their hand than they ought to… especially when that “consistent contact” becomes a horse who is also behind the leg because he’s not actually strong enough to push from his hind feet all the way up into the bridle the way we want… so he just stretches down and we call it good, not really feeling that he lacks impulsion.

Also, baby horse will need to put his head and neck in all sorts of places while he’s using them to balance his young, top-heavy body and then a rider even higher than his own center of gravity. So his relationship with the bit at this point in his education is pretty dang minimal. Or, if you watch the really great young horse riders, the head and neck isn’t a big part of the equation. I suppose the very talented, athletic Verdan auction riders can finesse a young horse’s head and neck so well that he looks like he’s got more strength and miles under saddle than he does.

And I try not to spend lots of time on a circle with the babies, especially the tall, heavier, leggier ones. If those legs will get used up during his career, I really don’t want to spend them on a circle before I even get to ride him, lol!

Hope this helps. Take what you like and leave the rest.

[Pocket_Pony]

I’m pretty anti-anything that either fixes a horse’s head in a certain position or limits his range of motion while asking him to work. I think I’m in the minority here about my thoughts regarding side reins and chambons and neck stretchers and whatnot, but I wouldn’t do it.

Of course it is your horse and your decision to make.

You could try rigging up something to your body that would limit your range of motion and ability to balance yourself and then exercise for a little while and see how you feel afterward.

Horses need and use their head and neck to balance. Especially for a young horse just starting to work or being asked to work in a consistent manner, if they take a weird step (not a lame step, just mis-step), they need to be able to get all their legs back in the right place. Think about yourself when you walk. Are all your steps exactly the same? Do you ever step out with one foot, or mis-judge the footing underneath you? If your mode of balance were limited - let’s say your arms were tied down a bit so that you couldn’t extend them to find equilibrium - would that help you? I know people and horses are not the same, but some sort of extrapolation here could give consideration to what it means to take away something important from a horse.

Instead of going for the goal of keeping the head down, why not teach some feel to your horse? If you use a gadget then the horse is going to create tension in his body when working against the gadget. If you can long line or ground drive, you are communicating with your horse on what type of feel you like, what kind of response you want to your rein aids, and you can give the horse the release when he gets it right. If you don’t have experience with this, find a trainer who can help you.

But that’s jut my very unpopular opinion.

[CanteringCarrot]

I am fairly anti-gadget and very pro long lining. I also think that long lining before backing/starting the horse under saddle is very valuable. I would honestly teach the horse to long line first before introducing any “gadgets” on the lunge line.

What I like about long lining vs a fixed device while lunging is that I am using my actual hands as part of the contact because what am I going to use while on his back? My actual hands and body. I like being able to feel the horse and vary my contacts. I can really collect my horse on the lines, or let him go long and low. You can also introduce lateral work and transitions easier this way, and you are not limited to being on a circle like with lunging.

I typically start with some basic yielding to pressure exercises and getting the horse comfortable with lines all over the place before I begin. However, if you are not experienced with long lining, and do not have instruction this may not be the best approach. You may be able to find someone to teach you if you are not educated.

If you absolutely have to lunge, the Chambon would be the first “gadget” of choice if I had to use one. I would introduce it slowly and do not overdo it! This will be hard work for the youngster.

The other thing you can introduce on the lunge line or long lines would be ground poles. This will help strengthen your horse and may encourage stretching down.

[SendenHorse]

I would not use it since you do NOT want to work down on the poll, you want the horse to work up and out over the withers. I also see a lot of really sore horses in the poll already, and I would hate to do anything mechanical to act on this already “accident prone” area- tension here can radiate down the shoulder and into the jaw/TMJ.

A horse stretching down is the product of work, NOT THE GOAL. Work on the back end by using bending lines and transitions on the longe, also I am a big fan of in hand work- this teaches bit acceptance and shoulder positioning better than side reins or gadgets. It’s easier to react to subtle changes, I do it weekly with my more advanced horses too as a refresher.

Grew up very very hard core side rein/german dressage, now I don’t longe very much. Depends on the horse. Most people don’t know how to get the horse motivated, and this creates heaviness in the front end, which is further exacerbated with side reins and gadgets.

I’ve never been convinced the chambon is more effective and less damanging than what I am already doing, just see a lot of overbent horses that break at the 3rd vertebrae. However, I’d do this first before I’d do draw reins/Vienna reins that go between the front legs.

[pluvinel]

The questions to ask is “Why?” Why are you thinking of using a chambon?

Is the horse going head high? Is the horse backing off the bit?

Answers to those question may answer your question…

I second the suggestion to long-line a horse to teach connection with the bit. Notice I said “connection” and not “contact.” I want a horse connected in the bridle, not bearing down on the bit.

I also suggest double lunging. You will have the contact of both the inside and outside reins. But this may take some training and practice.

How you rig your lunge line has a huge effect on how a horse works and carries itself. Some rather “fancy” instructors (including some of mine) have the lunge line go thru the inside bit ring, over the poll and attached to the outside bit ring. I dislike that configuration as I find it tends to raise the horse’s head…so I don’t use it.

I have my lunge line go from my hand thru the inside ring of the bit and clipped to the surcingle. This provides a “direct rein” or “opening rein” effect and inside flexion. I use only that with a full cheek bit so I don’t pull the bit thru the mouth.

If using another type of snaffle, I use a side rein, but I only use the outside side rein, in a fairly long setting…eg., when horse is standing the length of the rein allows the horse to just bring his nose just shy of vertical and allows the nose to flex inside to the point of the inside shoulder. Using only one side rein provides the greatest freedom for the horse to use its body while still “suggesting” how to position itself.

If you still have a giraffe that needs to be shown “its way to the ground,” then I have…on some horses…for a short period of time…used a running martingale and had the lunge line and side rein (rigged as above) go thru the running martingale.

If your horse is raising its head, there are exercises that require the horse to engage the inside hind and thus lower its head…spiraling into a small circle and spiraling out. This can be done at the walk. The walk is the training gait where you explain what you want to the horse.

[goldenstirrup]

Thanks for the replies! I totally forgot about ground driving. I’m going to research on how to do it and practice on a quiet horse.