Change in shoeing = lower back pain?

[ChasseurSauteur]

I recently moved my TB to a new barn and had to change farriers as a result. We’ve dealt with many foot issues in the past so I did a lot of due diligence in choosing a new farrier. Picked one who is well-recommended among high-level H/J folks who I respect and is active in our area’s continuing education group for farriers.

Horse had his first shoeing last week and his feet look great to my admittedly not-that-knowledgeable eye - the previous farrier had left the toes quite long with a bit of a flare/dish, whereas the new guy shortened the toes up so that the angles appear, at least, to be a lot better. The new farrier reviewed the horse’s X-rays and prior shoeing report, watched him move in the old setup and then barefoot, explained the changes he was making while shaping the foot, etc. Basically, I felt quite good about the appointment.

Fast forward a few days post-appointment and the horse is suddenly quite sore to palpation in the lower back. He had has a few days off riding due to an unfortunately-timed abscess (now resolved) so doubt it is saddle-related. Only thing that has changed in the intervening time is the shoeing.

I’ve heard of horses with back pain secondary to foot pain, but usually when the toes are too long/heels run down…in this case, his feet look much more balanced now! I’m kicking myself because I really agonized over the choice of farrier and am going to be so upset if I’ve now given myself a whole other problem! The horse has had issues with shoeing changes before (has come up foot sore when changing angles, etc.) but has never had back issues (despite being a long-backed, delicate flower TB.)

I don’t want to put a saddle on until this resolves - he is on a bit of bute for his other complaints (lol) and I have been massaging with liniment daily…should I just wait this out? Try to address with the farrier? Similar experiences welcome! Thanks in advance!

[Posting_Trot]

If the farrier changed the angles of the foot, then that could result in body-soreness. Even if–overall–the changes in the angles and shape of the hooves are for the better, they would still feel different to the horse, and would change the horse’s way of going.

Think about a person who has, for example, only worn high heels for several years. Then, she throws out her high heels and starts wearing Birkenstocks full-time. Probably, the Birkenstocks are better for her posture, feet, etc. over the long haul, but she will also quite possibly feel some soreness at least initially.

That said, it might be a good idea to contact the farrier and ask if he thinks the back soreness could be a normal and temporary result. Maybe he would do something a little differently the next time around, given the horse’s reaction.

[JB]

He may just be using himself differently now. I’d spend a few days hand walking, really marching along to get a good back swing, then spend a few more days just walking under saddle, and see how things go.

Massage is always good! I would not just let him rest, unless hand walking makes things worse.

[ChasseurSauteur]

That makes sense! Thanks to both of you. This horse sure keeps me on my toes!

[IPEsq]

I used to have to wear custom orthotics to run. Before I got an OCD in my hock and now running has been out for 15 years due to that. But when I first got them and then when they tried changing my setup to see if it would help my ankle, the advice would be to wear them maybe just an hour of normal activity. And build up. It was more about protecting my back than the thing I needed the orthotics for.

There is so much about the feet that affects the rest of the body. Horses too. There is of course a chance the two are not related at all and he did something to himself (because, horses). But if the new farrier made significant changes, that could cause some soreness because he is moving differently. Assuming the changes are for the better, then it should resolve, but it might take some time as he builds strength in the right area. Can’t tell a horse to only try out a new trim for an hour ;).

[ChasseurSauteur]

@IPEsq

Can’t tell a horse to only try out a new trim for an hour ;).

Ain’t that the truth :’) Thanks!

[Kyrabee]

I second what JB says.

When I switched to my current trimmer…14 years ago…when she did her set-up trim, my horse got very sore. Not foot sore but body sore. Horse was already barefoot and it didn’t seem like she changed up THAT much. My horse thought differently. I had her come back out and she put hoof testers on all feet with no reaction at all but she sure didn’t want to move.

I did what JB recommended as far as activity. Hand walking with encouraging her to stride out. She was back to normal within a week and we have never had anything similar since then. It was strange but most definitely, the changes affected her posture and muscles.

Susan

[ChasseurSauteur]

Thanks @Kyrabee! It’s hot as heck here so some long walking hacks are in order this week.

[Color_of_Light]

@ChasseurSauteur

Change in shoeing = lower back pain?

Yes, absolutely! Proceed with caution when changes are made that causes a horse to have back pain. I had a horse come in with very strange shoeing and horrible movement, particularly in the hind end. They had tried to shorten the horse’s stride with their bizarre shoeing and flatten the movement. The hind hooves, in particular, were far too upright for this horse’s natural angles and conformation. The shoes were set back as far as possible, the shoes had rolled toes, and if I remember correctly, the shoes were weighted. The horse first exhibited unusual behavior in the cross ties while being saddled. Might have been lifting hind leg while running a brush over the lower part of haunches. Not as if to kick, just lifting the leg. There was also excessive wiggling while cleaning out hooves, but I don’t remember if it was while lifting a front foot and weight was then on the hind end, or if it was while lifting one of the hind legs. Watching the horse ridden made me cringe. The movement was so unnatural and horrible looking. Turns out the horrible angles and horrible shoes made the horse very body sore, mainly in the hind end. As a result, the hind end had unusual muscling. Instead of a nicely-rounded bum, the horse had a pointed bum from the point of the buttock and below (hamstring area, lateral view). I pulled the shoes off, fixed the angles, and left the horse barefoot. The movement was instantly much more natural and free. It took a while for the pain in the hind end to go away. Within a fairly short time, the horse’s rear end became rounded and normal.

Aside from the angles changing and causing pain being a concern, so is the abscess after shoeing. Which foot had the abscess and where in the foot was the abscess located? If it was in the toe region, since his feet are now much steeper, are his toes now looking super short?

I’d be curious to see the before and after pictures of his hooves if you have them.

[imaginique]

I am in touch with a trimmer who just today sent me a pdf file explaining this exact thing. I would send it to you if want to pm me with your email addy.

[ChasseurSauteur]

@Color of Light thanks! Photos won’t upload here but let me know if you can see this link: https://ibb.co/album/cDVpyv

Also - the abscess pre-dated the shoeing and was in the medial heel.

@imaginique, that’s kind, will PM you!

[Posting_Trot]

I’m not an expert, but just looking at those pics, the pic of the RF on the lower row looks pretty bull-nosed to me. It might be the angle of the photo, but if it is bull-nosed that’s not good.

Here’s a blogpost about bull-nosed hooves:

https://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/bull-nosed-hooves.html

[JB]

The first RF picture looks like there’s a negative plantar angle, and the 2nd RF picture looks like the bullnosing followed along

Are the 2nd set of pictures the new trim/shoeing, as I think I read this? How long between those 2 sets of pictures?

Hopefully things are headed in the right direction, but without seeing the feet pre-trim, it’s hard to tell, and it really won’t be easy to tell until there are a few more trims by this new farrier.

But the feet were definitely in trouble, had been for a while, so hopefully his soreness really is just about adjusting to things being better.

How is his soreness now?

[ChasseurSauteur]

@Posting Trot, @JB: the top row are the newer pics (about 10 days after the new trim/shoeing - same point in the cycle as the older pics). Pics are one month apart.

(long story ahead for context!) The RF has been our main woe over the past ~year. Started with a couple of successive abscesses, after which he could not seem to tolerate keeping a shoe nailed on. Transitioned to a glue-on on that foot in July 2019. In August, he got terrible lymphangitis in the RH, rehabbed from that for a while, brought him back into work in November. In February he came up super lame in the RF again, x-rays showed that the pedal bone in that foot was starting to degrade. Started him on bar shoes + pads (plus, initially, acrylic to support the medial hoof wall which looked terrible) and has been sound since.

His soreness is starting to improve as of yesterday - still not as loose as normal, but definitely not as sensitive to palpation, and just seems happier overall. We are now about 10 days out from his shoeing.

Really grateful to you all for your input here - I have tried to be really diligent with choosing good professionals for this horse but farrier work is a real blind spot for me - feels I know enough to ask questions but not enough to evaluate the answers!

[Color_of_Light]

You’re welcome. Thank you for posting the photos. His left hind outside heel is a lot longer and more upright than the right hind outside heel, which is much shorter and underrun. In the previous shoeing, his left outside heel was closer to matching that of his right in terms of length and angle of his heel. The way his hind heels currently are makes me wonder (and doubt) that they are level on the bottom. With the left outside heel being so long and upright, I have to wonder if his hoof is high on the outside wall. Do they look level and balanced from the bottom? Does it look like he’s tight rope walking or swinging his left hind hoof or both hind hooves toward each other when he’s walking? Is he standing strangely while parked in the cross-ties? Uneven hind heels, unlevel and unbalanced hooves, and mismatched angled between the hind hooves can make a horse quite sore.

[JB]

@Color of Light

His left hind outside heel is a lot longer and more upright than the right hind outside heel, which is much shorter and underrun.

Other way around? I agree they look quite different. I think they were closer to being different, than similar, in the older pics, but the angle of the picture of the LH makes it look like the heel is taller.

@ChasseurSauteur The next set of pictures after the next reset need to be from better angles. The camera really needs to be on the ground, and the lens perpendicular to the side of the foot. If it’s at ALL possible, a solar view of each foot, after trimming and before the shoe goes on, would be very helpful as well :yes:

Good Hoof Photos - How to take Good Hoof Photos

it IS good that the bullnosing is not in the present pictures, but there’s still a negative plantar angle so that has to be worked on, of there will continue to be issues with his feet and his body.

[ChasseurSauteur]

@Color of Light and @JB - you guys are fab. I will update in a couple of weeks post next reset, with better pics. Thanks for the food for thought and questions to raise with farrier next time! He continues to improve, was at about 90% today and had a good stretchy school.