Changing barns? Could use some advice

[Rubi]

Hi all,

I’m in need of some advice - I’m seriously considering changing barns and could use a sanity check whether the issues I’m complaining about are actually as big as I make them out to be.

So, first why am I at this barn?
The GREAT training and trainer rides. Seriously, my trainer is amazing, I have never felt so confident in my riding and that is due to her teaching style.
Also, when she rides my mare, it makes the horse go better for me. That might sound obvious but unfortunately I have also had former trainers putting rides on my horses where they have looked great with the trainer but I was unable to follow that up by myself.
Also, I can train both dressage and jumping with this trainer and only have to trailer out for cross country training, which is a big plus in this area.

Why am I thinking of leaving?
The stable management and horse care.
I theoretically pay for “full service” (feeding of hay and hard feed, mucking out, turning horses out and back in, but no grooming or training included).
In practice, I muck the stall everyday myself, as the guy who is supposed to do it, just does a really sloppy job.
Boarders also turn in the horses regularly themselves, again, because the guy getting paid for it just does not do it.
Since the beginning of the year we also have to buy our own bedding for the stall (which used to be included up until this point). No price reduction on board of course.

Recently my mare’s stall has been looking trashed every afternoon and I have now found out why.
Without informing me, they have been turning out another horse in the mornings with mare’s pasture mate, and she has to stay inside while every other horse is out. At noon, they are switched. But by then my mare has already made a complete mess of her stall and is anxious.

I confronted the stable manager with this and let her know I want my mare outside in the mornings with all the others but she’s not willing to budge on that.
(The simple solution would be to just divide a field in two to have enough space for everyone at the same time but for some reason that is not possible).

The reason I am hesitant about moving (apart from the great training) is also the convenient location of my current stable, as it’s only 5 minutes from my apartment.
The stable I’m thinking of moving to is a 30 minute drive with a great facility but not as good training.

Price-wise they are about the same.

I’d be happy to hear your thoughts…
TIA

[Scaramouch]

@Rubi

Without informing me, they have been turning out another horse in the mornings with mare’s pasture mate, and she has to stay inside while every other horse is out. At noon, they are switched. But by then my mare has already made a complete mess of her stall and is anxious.

… they cut your horse’s turnout time by half without at least notifying you? I would be absolutely livid about that even if she weren’t panicking in her stall all morning. Does your boarding contract stipulate anything about hours in turnout vs. stalled? Either way that’s unacceptable and I would be out of there ASAP even if everything else was perfect.

At this point I probably wouldn’t even give notice - with all of this backslide they must be violating the contract with the bedding situation or boarders having to bring their own horses in?

[LCDR]

You should move to a place that is better for your horse. She’s the one who has to live there 24/7/365.

To halve turnout time and not inform an owner, and to refuse to correct the problem is inexcusable.

[cristalle]

Your poor mare! Being left in the barn alone while ALL the other horses are out? That is just cruel and unacceptable.
The fact that they have cut her turnout time in half and are treating her in this way is just wrong.
Why your mare?
And the fact that the BM "will not budge " on this.
Who is above this BM, is there anyone else you can speak to who will correct this situation?
Meanwhile, find another barn.

[beau159]

@Rubi

Hi all,

I’m in need of some advice - I’m seriously considering changing barns and could use a sanity check whether the issues I’m complaining about are actually as big as I make them out to be.

So, first why am I at this barn?
The GREAT training and trainer rides. Seriously, my trainer is amazing, I have never felt so confident in my riding and that is due to her teaching style.
Also, when she rides my mare, it makes the horse go better for me. That might sound obvious but unfortunately I have also had former trainers putting rides on my horses where they have looked great with the trainer but I was unable to follow that up by myself.
Also, I can train both dressage and jumping with this trainer and only have to trailer out for cross country training, which is a big plus in this area.

Why am I thinking of leaving?
The stable management and horse care.
I theoretically pay for “full service” (feeding of hay and hard feed, mucking out, turning horses out and back in, but no grooming or training included).
In practice, I muck the stall everyday myself, as the guy who is supposed to do it, just does a really sloppy job.
Boarders also turn in the horses regularly themselves, again, because the guy getting paid for it just does not do it.
Since the beginning of the year we also have to buy our own bedding for the stall (which used to be included up until this point). No price reduction on board of course.

Recently my mare’s stall has been looking trashed every afternoon and I have now found out why.
Without informing me, they have been turning out another horse in the mornings with mare’s pasture mate, and she has to stay inside while every other horse is out. At noon, they are switched. But by then my mare has already made a complete mess of her stall and is anxious.

I confronted the stable manager with this and let her know I want my mare outside in the mornings with all the others but she’s not willing to budge on that.
(The simple solution would be to just divide a field in two to have enough space for everyone at the same time but for some reason that is not possible).

The reason I am hesitant about moving (apart from the great training) is also the convenient location of my current stable, as it’s only 5 minutes from my apartment.
The stable I’m thinking of moving to is a 30 minute drive with a great facility but not as good training.

Price-wise they are about the same.

I’d be happy to hear your thoughts…
TIA

I would have left yesterday.

If you didn’t sign a new contract that now states you have to pay for shavings, that’s a breach of contract on their end.

And the turn out thing … oh my, would they have gotten an earful. NOT ACCEPTABLE.

It stinks that you’ve really clicked with this trainer, but the SAFETY and health of your horse comes first.

Any chance you could get lessons with this trainer somehow? Either you haul in for lessons or they come to you? You know what, if the BO is treating the boarders like this, I can’t imagine how they treat the trainer…

[Fiesta01]

The not turning out with all the other horses would be a deal breaker for me. My TBs would have either wrecked the stall/injured themselves or developed nervous colics/ulcers being left in while everyone else is out. Really poor stable management.

All barns/barn owners have quirks. Over the years, I learned that if the problem only affected me, and not my horses, I would deal with it for good care. If it affected my horses’ physical or mental well-being, I would be gone yesterday.

[fivestrideline]

@LCDR

You should move to a place that is better for your horse. She’s the one who has to live there 24/7/365.

This.

That is a long list of red flags, and not ones that are easily worked around. Also, ONLY your mare inside?? That sounds a bit personal (either to you or the horse), and is a recipe for colic not to mention ulcers. Time to leave.

Does the new place have just one trainer, or multiple/multi discipline? You may be able to work out a deal to have your current trainer come once a month or something for mini clinic type lessons. But tread carefully - you don’t want to be the person who comes in raving about how much better “your” trainer is. You need this new place to work out for your mare - you could always meet your trainer at shows. I would not assume you can haul in to your current place for lessons - may be worth asking your trainer (after you move) if that would be possible or if the BM might get weird about it.

Anyway. Move. Now. And check your contract - you may be able to just leave due to breach of contract (or avoid some conflict and just cough up for 30 days board).

[Rubi]

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful answers.

To give some more background and answer some questions:

No boarder at my current barn has a contract, it’s all by word of mouth.

The BO/BM and my trainer are close family to each other. They each stay “in their lane”, meaning trainer does lessons and rides, BO/BM is responsible for the barn management.

If I leave I don’t have high hopes of salvaging the relationship with my trainer enough to be allowed to come back for lessons.

The reason why it’s only my mare is complicated but has to do with how our fields are set up.

We have a big field in the back where a mixed herd of retirees and boarder horses go out together. My mare used to go out with them but last fall she started jumping the fence to get to the better grass on the other side. Of course some others followed her out and destroyed the fence while at it.
After this happened a few times my mare was ‘banned’ from the herd and put in with her current pasture mate in one of the smaller fields, that has higher fences.

We have a horse at the stable with a pretty absentee owner who pays my trainer for training rides.
This horse does not have it’s own field as he does not like to be outside for long periods of time and starts walking the fence.
Recently, instead of putting training rides on him, they have been turning him out with my mare’s pasture mate to get him out of his stall.

I have mentioned a few possible solution to the BO/BM.
Either, finally improve the fence for the big herd (it’s in need of some repairs and better electricity anyway) and put my mare back out with the big herd.
Or create a separate field for the horse with the absentee boarder.
Both of these solutions require work that the BO/BM is not willing to put in.
And I am not to question the way she manages her stable. She has a wait-list full of people, if I am not happy with the way things are , I can leave.

Soooo either I am ok with things, or I go.
And I am leaning towards leaving tbh. I just need to figure out if the opening at the other stable is still available…

[punchy]

This new info changes things for me. A horse who jumps out of a pasture is one that requires special treatment. And the other horse who doesn’t like to be out long requires special treatment. So the BM is doing what they need to do to get both of them out (I assume they all 3 can’t be in the smaller pasture for the morning, then bring the other in midday?) I don’t think the BM is required to make new pastures to accommodate this. I also wouldn’t like it if my horse was left in by themselves every day and stressed about it.

Is this going to be a permanent thing? If not, you might wait to see how it plays out.

[LCDR]

Being judgy here I know. But barn fencing that can be jumped just because the horses want greener grass on the other side is not the environment I would want any horse of mine living in. It is dangerous. This reinforces my advice to move to a place that is both safer and better for the mental and physical health of your mare.

And I say screw the barn owner and the trainer relative.You don’t need to try to maintain a relationship with either of them. You are the only advocate your mare has in her life. You want a good life for her, so find her a better home.

[Rackonteur]

@Rubi

tbh. I just need to figure out if the opening at the other stable is still available…

This is not something that needs to be figured out. Just call the other barn and ask. Or visit.

Good luck! I’m with the others who’ve said Leave.

[trubandloki]

@Rubi

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful answers.

To give some more background and answer some questions:

No boarder at my current barn has a contract, it’s all by word of mouth.

The BO/BM and my trainer are close family to each other. They each stay “in their lane”, meaning trainer does lessons and rides, BO/BM is responsible for the barn management.

If I leave I don’t have high hopes of salvaging the relationship with my trainer enough to be allowed to come back for lessons.

The reason why it’s only my mare is complicated but has to do with how our fields are set up.

We have a big field in the back where a mixed herd of retirees and boarder horses go out together. My mare used to go out with them but last fall she started jumping the fence to get to the better grass on the other side. Of course some others followed her out and destroyed the fence while at it.
After this happened a few times my mare was ‘banned’ from the herd and put in with her current pasture mate in one of the smaller fields, that has higher fences.

We have a horse at the stable with a pretty absentee owner who pays my trainer for training rides.
This horse does not have it’s own field as he does not like to be outside for long periods of time and starts walking the fence.
Recently, instead of putting training rides on him, they have been turning him out with my mare’s pasture mate to get him out of his stall.

I have mentioned a few possible solution to the BO/BM.
Either, finally improve the fence for the big herd (it’s in need of some repairs and better electricity anyway) and put my mare back out with the big herd.
Or create a separate field for the horse with the absentee boarder.
Both of these solutions require work that the BO/BM is not willing to put in.
And I am not to question the way she manages her stable. She has a wait-list full of people, if I am not happy with the way things are , I can leave.

Soooo either I am ok with things, or I go.
And I am leaning towards leaving tbh. I just need to figure out if the opening at the other stable is still available…

Bold and underline by me -

Am I reading this right, instead of doing the training rides they are paid for, your trainer has organized with their BO/BM relative to just turn the horse out?

If that is how that wording was intended, then I would leave for that reason alone.

I am not aghasted about the paying for shaving part. To me that sounds more like - Hey, I can increase board to cover the crazy increasing cost of shavings or we can change thing and you can simply pay for the shavings yourself.

OP, if you like this barn except the horrible turn out situation (which to me is enough to move if there is somewhere to move to), it might be worth talking to your trainer and the BO/BM together and see if you can resolve the issue. Maybe you can offer up some manhours of labor to build a turn out for the horse not getting its training rides?

[Scaramouch]

Right, this part makes your trainer sound as shady as her relatives. And while I appreciate that the management may need to make some less than ideal compromises to deal with problem horses, owners of the affected horses should still be informed before those changes are made. And again this situation is ON TOP of hired barn staff that don’t do their jobs (stall cleaning and bringing in horses) reliably or well according to the OP.

It sounds like you have your own truck and trailer - I’ll echo the suggestion that you shop around for a new trainer to haul out to after you move to a new barn.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@Rubi

Recently, instead of putting training rides on him, they have been turning him out with my mare’s pasture mate to get him out of his stall.

I too like @trubandloki am aghast that this horse’s owner is paying for training rides and appears to be not getting them. Being turned out and being trained are two entirely different things. Also, I can’t imagine it’s good for THIS horse to be left in the barn alone, even if he does walk the fence when he’s turned out (which it sounds like he is, as he’s rotated with your mare).

I know a horse that jumps the fence is usually no BM’s favorite horse, but it also sounds like the fencing may be inadequate in the paddock where she was previously turned out, since she doesn’t have that issue with a higher fence.

The fact that there is no contract with the boarders might not be an automatic red flag, but it’s at least a pink one, because it essentially means they can do what they want and you can’t point to a contract saying they violated the contract.
The fact they didn’t tell you suggests they know they are doing wrong, and were hoping you wouldn’t even notice. That is a red flag. What else are they hiding?

With the shavings thing…it’s not great, even if it might not be a deal-breaker, and I would also be peeved that I had to do barn work I was paying to be done and the owners can’t get decent help. I realize barn costs are going up and it’s hard to get good workers, but everything you’re saying about this place makes it sound worse and more shady. You’re horse’s peace of mind is already being compromised–don’t wait until her health is as well and leave.

[Rackonteur]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

I too like @trubandloki am aghast that this horse’s owner is paying for training rides and appears to be not getting them

But maybe the horse’s owner isn’t. Maybe s/he has been informed, or even requested this. OP might not be privy to this info. There is no reason for this to have been shared with the boarders in general.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Based on the OP’s post, it sounded like because the owner is never at the barn, they weren’t bothering to do the paid rides.

Hell, they didn’t even tell the OP her mare’s turnout was cut in half and the mare was stuck in the barn alone, and the OP lives 5 minutes away and is there every day to muck out her mare’s stall. Communication and honesty seems to be lacking, to put it mildly.

[Rackonteur]

I agree. But I also remember one barn where I boarded and one horse had an absentee owner. I didn’t “get it”; didn’t know why, until much later when I got to know people there much better and knew the situation, but it was none of my business and all the time the owner and BM-trainer were in contact with each other.

ETA: IME BMs and trainers are much better with horses than with human communications. Given a choice I’d prefer the former, but still wish for the latter as a package deal.

[fivestrideline]

OP, every tidbit of new information is Not Good - and turning some yellow and pink flags into glaring red.

Leave ASAP. You owe it to your mare to find the safest and most comfortable accommodations you can for her.

[Rubi]

Short update - I called the other barn, unfortunately they are full atm. I am on their wait-list though.

At the beginning of the week I tried talking to the BO again, without getting the feeling of them understanding my issue with the situation at all. No chance of any possible change.

And then, surprise!
When I arrived at the stable this afternoon, I saw that my mare was out in the back field with the big herd.
Without anyone telling me upfront, of course.

But for now, I won’t push the issue, as long as going out with the big herd is working out, as I have no place to go.
But as soon as a free spot at the other facility opens up, I’m moving.

Thanks everyone for your reality checks and your advice

[DGEventing]

Have you mentioned this to your trainer? Does the trainer have any influence over the stable manager/barn? Usually, the trainer has some pull in these situations and might be able to help find a solution.

With that said, I would pick quality horse care over everything. A trainer I may be able to pay extra to come to me, or I need to ship out, or even virtual lessons. But horse care, well… I have left “top” boarding barns for less.