I don’t know if there were fewer colics back in the day, but horses did seem to survive without their Soy Free, All Organic, Non GMO, All Natural grain.
Y’all worry what the neighbors think about what you feed your horses? Y’all need more hobbies.
Personal opinion from my observations- we have WAY less colics today. And less fatal colics.
Although much of that likely has to do with the availability of paste dewormers and large strongyle control. Large strongyles were once the leading cause of colic, but are now virtually a non-issue.
Unfortunately there is not data to back my observations up, since the only study I’m aware of on colic incidence was conducted nearly 20 years ago.
I think part of it is that thing our minds do about reminiscing, I forget the term about it. How you don’t remember the bad stuff. There were probably MORE colics back then, I know just from reading that I used to read about it more when I was young than I do now.
I did try the whole foods approach with my very hard keeper. Whole oats, alfalfa, flax, vitamin/mineral supplement. Did not magically do anything for him. I had hoped it would, but nope. I never tried cheap sweet feed, he was a laminitis risk and the oats made me nervous enough as it was.
Well said.
[QUOTE=tinah;8324020]
Y’all worry what the neighbors think about what you feed your horses? Y’all need more hobbies.[/QUOTE]
That was a bit tongue-in-cheek… Don’t worry, it doesn’t keep me up at night.
[QUOTE=Texarkana;8324116]
Personal opinion from my observations- we have WAY less colics today. And less fatal colics.
Although much of that likely has to do with the availability of paste dewormers and large strongyle control. Large strongyles were once the leading cause of colic, but are now virtually a non-issue.
Unfortunately there is not data to back my observations up, since the only study I’m aware of on colic incidence was conducted nearly 20 years ago.[/QUOTE]
THIS^, and also we’re more aware of not feeding them giant, slammer “meals” on the help’s schedule (say 9 and 5) as opposed to the horse’s natural needs. On the downside, however, there was more turnout in the old days, especially for the high-end horses.
I think there is FAR, FAR BETTER dental care nowadays too! Years ago, only Darwin’s best endowed made 30–now, I feel I’m letting down the side if ANY of them don’t. That’s a huge, huge change from Ye Olden Daze.
[QUOTE=tinah;8324020]
Y’all worry what the neighbors think about what you feed your horses? Y’all need more hobbies.[/QUOTE]
That was a bit tongue-in-cheek… Don’t worry, it doesn’t keep me up at night.
Yep, I agree that dental care has probably been a huge contributing factor there.
Cheap doesn’t always mean less quality. A well balanced, basic feed that works, works. That being said, more times than not, the cheap stuff is cheap for a reason. And you often pay the price. I have an archive of stories regarding switching horses from crap feeds to quality feeds and seeing HUGE changes. My biggest example was switching an entire barn from locally milled junk feed to a pricier but high quality feed. Within a month, we went from order 10 bags of feed a week, to barely making the minimum order of 10 every two weeks. Horses who were getting fed huge quantities of hard feed PLUS beet pulp and still losing weight, started gaining on half of what they were getting and without adding beet pulp. Crazy horses calmed down. Coats shined up. It was huge the difference.
But, again. Good feed is good feed no matter how much you pay, if it works. I used to feed a large percentage of my horses nothing but a RB and quality hay. It worked. Do what’s right for your guys and ignore what anyone else says.
[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8323570]
I don’t know if there were fewer colics back in the day, but horses did seem to survive without their Soy Free, All Organic, Non GMO, All Natural grain.[/QUOTE]
Well, if back in the day was hay, oats, and maybe sweet feed, then it was All Natural, Soy Free, and definitely Non-GMO.
I think exercise is the other big factor. I would weigh 300 lbs if I ate like a marathon runner or a weight lifter. Likewise working ranch horses and ponies being galloped everywhere by 14 year old girls burn off all the carbs and calories they are fed.
I hope more people start to take a look at their feed labels. I made the same mistake with dog food. I believed that by paying for a more expensive brand/bag, I was getting a better product, when in fact I was getting the same garbage in the cheap brands. And I should know better, I’m married to a feed dealer!!
Rider has whole grains as the first 3 ingredients, and even at the relatively cheap price point, it does have some chelated minerals (better absorption). I’m not surprised that your horses are doing as well or better than on the other feeds you used.
TC Senior and Sentinel LS both have 2 or 3 by products as the top 3 ingredients. Yes, not all by-products are necessarily bad, but they are “waste” products from another industry who found an outlet in horse feeds.
And while I won’t comment on the GMO/non-GMO debate, I will agree with the previous poster who said they never saw a horse eat wheat. There’s a reason why you don’t hear of bodybuilders bulking up with wheat protein, and why many top athletes avoid it.
It’s always good to take a look at what exactly is in the bag you’re paying your hard-earned money for.
TC Senior - Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Wheat Middlings, Shredded Beet Pulp, - See more at: https://www.triplecrownfeed.com/products/feeds/senior-horse-feed-formula-seniorhorsefeed/#sthash.GpLMjFbF.dpuf
The Sixth Edition of Nutrient Requirements of Horses, says the inclusion of wheat GRAIN in horses diets is somewhat uncommon. However, wheat by-product feeds are often used in horse feeds, wheat middlings (midds) being one of the most common. Because most of the flour has been removed, wheat midds are higher in fiber and protein, but lower in energy than wheat grain. Wheat midds may contain more than 1 percent phosphorous so calcium supplementation is usually necessary when wheat midds constitute a significant portion of the diet. Due to their fine texture, wheat midds are not easily fed alone; however, they are commonly used in pelleted feeds.
Okay so I have been thinking about this whole thread and this is what comes to my mind:
Psyllium when wet forms a gel, which theoretically coats the intestines.
Oats - or oatmeal - when wet, forms a gel also, which I believe is called water soluble fiber.
So. If I fed my horse oats, wouldn’t it stand to reason it would form a gel in his innards? Especially if I get them rolled or otherwise crushed or soak them before feeding.
In which case perhaps I’d solve some of my ulcer problems.
It makes me want to try my own experiment except I’ve worked so hard to get my guy to where he’s at I am reluctant to make any changes.
Anybody with a bigger brain than mine care to take this further??
One of the hind gut ulcer supplements, if I remember correctly, includes oat flour. Grind some of your oats in a coffee grinder 
When my standardbreds retired they were gradually switched from Vintage Racer( Blue Seal) to Mane Menu (also Blue Seal). Went from 23.99 a bag to 9.99 a bag- at 10 head that adds up quick. I was concerned about a few of my hard keepers but I get tons of compliments on their coats and their tons of dapples. The blacksmith said their feet look great too. If they were back in work, I’d have to see how they did, but for retirees its great
[QUOTE=Obsidian Fire;8326163]
Okay so I have been thinking about this whole thread and this is what comes to my mind:
Psyllium when wet forms a gel, which theoretically coats the intestines.
Oats - or oatmeal - when wet, forms a gel also, which I believe is called water soluble fiber.
So. If I fed my horse oats, wouldn’t it stand to reason it would form a gel in his innards? Especially if I get them rolled or otherwise crushed or soak them before feeding.
In which case perhaps I’d solve some of my ulcer problems.
It makes me want to try my own experiment except I’ve worked so hard to get my guy to where he’s at I am reluctant to make any changes.
Anybody with a bigger brain than mine care to take this further??[/QUOTE]
I’m not going to claim to have a bigger brain, but you’re not the first person to ask this question. And I think the answer falls somewhere between “not really” and “it depends.”
It’s the beta-glucan in oat fiber specifically that has properties that are beneficial for the hind gut.
Yes, that fiber is there in whole or rolled oats, but it’s trapped in the hull and within the germ.
Your horse’s chewing may not be effective enough to release a high enough proportion of the beta-glucan to see the positive effects. Also, oats are high in starches and sugars which can contribute to hind gut acidosis. Those partially masticated/partially digested oats that slip past the chemical and enzymatic digestive processes of the stomach and foregut aren’t going to be broken down enough for the beta-glucan to be utilized in a positive manner for the hindgut. But they will still deliver those carbs which to contribute to undesirable fermentation processes, which in turn causes acidosis.
Rolling/crushing/soaking may help, but a lot is going to have to do with what exactly is causing your horse’s hindgut issues in the first place. I probably wouldn’t want to experiment if it was sensitivity to sugars/starches that started his problems.
But my personal opinion- I think it seems plausible that the beta-glucan in whole oats does get utilized by horses in some positive manner, only because horses do seem to tolerate oats better than other feed products with similar levels of sugars and starches.
I hope this makes sense.
[QUOTE=Obsidian Fire;8326163]
Okay so I have been thinking about this whole thread and this is what comes to my mind:
Psyllium when wet forms a gel, which theoretically coats the intestines.
Oats - or oatmeal - when wet, forms a gel also, which I believe is called water soluble fiber.
So. If I fed my horse oats, wouldn’t it stand to reason it would form a gel in his innards? Especially if I get them rolled or otherwise crushed or soak them before feeding.
In which case perhaps I’d solve some of my ulcer problems.
It makes me want to try my own experiment except I’ve worked so hard to get my guy to where he’s at I am reluctant to make any changes.
Anybody with a bigger brain than mine care to take this further??[/QUOTE]
disclaimer I do not have a bigger brain.
The gel formed by psyllium doesn’t “coat the intestines”. It absorbs water from the digestive tract, forms a gel mass, and mixes and binds with the intestinal contents and bulks up the stool. In theory, as it binds, it can pick up sand particles and add it to the stool. That’s why it’s sold a sand colic preventative. This is the same action any water soluble fiber (like oatmeal) has - it absorbs water in the intestine and adds bulk to the stool (helping with constipation).
When I was on the CSU judging team in the mid-80s, we visited a lot of big-time quarter horse ranches. Places like Carol Rose’s and Tommy Mannions, Denny Hassett and others.
The horses were commonly fed whole oats,alfalfa and Bermuda grass hay. Typically nothing else besides maybe salt. Most of these barns had high dollar halter horses,some had performance horses. I don’t remember any horses looking poor, they were all shiny and in amazing condition. Of course, the halter horses were fat and muscular, although not as much as today’s. We saw stallions like Impressive and Zan Parr Bar.
I also remember a Feeds class back then where our instructor taught that whole oats and alfalfa, with grass hay gives a nearly balanced diet, as far as macronutrients were concerned.
I wouldn’t feed quite this diet now, since I have a pony and an older TB with Cushings. But, I have fed this diet before and was quite happy with the results.
Today’s feeds do concern me, with the high amount of wheat middlings. If I could get by with no concentrated feed I would but alfalfa hay and quality grass hay where I live now is pricey and difficult to come by.
In the past, I’ve had quite a few horses on only pasture or even just free choice hay with excellent results. I just can’t find the quality hay in NC that I could in the west.
[QUOTE=Mosey_2003;8326220]
One of the hind gut ulcer supplements, if I remember correctly, includes oat flour. Grind some of your oats in a coffee grinder ;)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Texarkana;8326384]I’m not going to claim to have a bigger brain, but you’re not the first person to ask this question. And I think the answer falls somewhere between “not really” and “it depends.”
It’s the beta-glucan in oat fiber specifically that has properties that are beneficial for the hind gut.
Yes, that fiber is there in whole or rolled oats, but it’s trapped in the hull and within the germ.
Your horse’s chewing may not be effective enough to release a high enough proportion of the beta-glucan to see the positive effects. Also, oats are high in starches and sugars which can contribute to hind gut acidosis. Those partially masticated/partially digested oats that slip past the chemical and enzymatic digestive processes of the stomach and foregut aren’t going to be broken down enough for the beta-glucan to be utilized in a positive manner for the hindgut. But they will still deliver those carbs which to contribute to undesirable fermentation processes, which in turn causes acidosis.
Rolling/crushing/soaking may help, but a lot is going to have to do with what exactly is causing your horse’s hindgut issues in the first place. I probably wouldn’t want to experiment if it was sensitivity to sugars/starches that started his problems.
But my personal opinion- I think it seems plausible that the beta-glucan in whole oats does get utilized by horses in some positive manner, only because horses do seem to tolerate oats better than other feed products with similar levels of sugars and starches.
I hope this makes sense.[/QUOTE]
All of this makes sense. I know enough about human & horse nutrition to usually be able to sort it out in a cohesive manner.
I have done the oat flour routine, and don’t know that it made any difference. Or that it did not. One of those can’t hurt, might help things.
So I picked up a bag of rolled oats. It is rolled almost enough to be called oatmeal! I am going to soak a small amount in water and just see what happens. As for feeding it, I will likely just add it to his mash.
Until the past few years, I always did feed oats. Only a small amount, like a cup or 2, just to get the vitamins down. I never thought there was anything wrong with it.
I remembered something else today too. Years ago, (like 25+) some people I knew got into soaking their grain (oats, usually). The thinking was that soaking them broke it down to make it more digestible for the horse.
So I being young and having no good reason not to, also soaked my oats. I did this for a couple years with no problems.
Until then-trainer came along and had a heart attack over it, telling me I was going to kill my horse because the oats were going to ferment and make horsey sick. Which had never happened. Whatever. I quit, and never thought about it again until earlier this morning.
This thread has been interesting. I have to wonder about what I do feed. It’s pretty simple, really, the only “processed” feed I give is TC Senior. But, even that has soy in it, and wheat middlings.
On the other hand we feed rice bran and I’ve never seen a horse eat rice either.
I guess it’s like anything else, you have to weigh out when technology is good for you and when it’s not.
