Cheap horse feed and results.

[Obsidian_Fire]

[QUOTE=TBROCKS;8326452]
disclaimer I do not have a bigger brain.
The gel formed by psyllium doesn’t “coat the intestines”. It absorbs water from the digestive tract, forms a gel mass, and mixes and binds with the intestinal contents and bulks up the stool. In theory, as it binds, it can pick up sand particles and add it to the stool. That’s why it’s sold a sand colic preventative. This is the same action any water soluble fiber (like oatmeal) has - it absorbs water in the intestine and adds bulk to the stool (helping with constipation).[/QUOTE]

Then why does my vet recommend it as a hind-gut ulcer helper? I just assumed I guess (bad me) that the gel was coating the intestines thereby allowing them to heal. Maybe it’s the fact that it pulls more water into the intestine that causes the inflammation to go down?

[tinah]

Dunno about horses, but soaking grains for the chickens gives substantially better feed economy. I bet somebody somewhere had studied it.

[TBROCKS]

[QUOTE=Obsidian Fire;8326827]
Then why does my vet recommend it as a hind-gut ulcer helper? I just assumed I guess (bad me) that the gel was coating the intestines thereby allowing them to heal. Maybe it’s the fact that it pulls more water into the intestine that causes the inflammation to go down?[/QUOTE]

I think Texarkana’s post (above mine) explained how it could help with hindgut issues.

[millerra]

My lower level (training) event horses and retirees get cheap feed - a whole oats (2/3)/cracked corn (1/3) mix made by the local feed company per our order. They also get 1x per day a mineral supplement + 1 cup flax seed and all the alfalfa/grass/red clover hay + grass they can eat. They all look great and all of them get no more than 2-3 lbs/grain per day.

I’ve tried commercial grains. W/ strategy I could feed 10 lbs/day and a couple were still rib thin. Sweet feed made one horse hotter than a pistol (crawling out of her skin hot)…

It works for me and I don’t really care too much that it isn’t fancy, expensive feed. I have nice, round, shiny horses w/ good feet.

[Texarkana]

@Obsidian Fire;8326822

I have done the oat flour routine, and don’t know that it made any difference. Or that it did not. One of those can’t hurt, might help things.

Well if you believe the people who make Succeed, they apparently have their own method to make oat flour that maximizes the beta-glucan while reducing the quantity of sugar/starch. They claim “regular” oat flour (as opposed to their own proprietary oat flour) has too much starch to be effective, and that it can possibly even make acidosis worse. Personally, I’m a little skeptical of the claim.

I remembered something else today too. Years ago, (like 25+) some people I knew got into soaking their grain (oats, usually). The thinking was that soaking them broke it down to make it more digestible for the horse.

I think this great debate in equine nutrition has been going on for decades, if not centuries. Which provides better nutrition- whole feeds or processed feeds? There are good arguments for both camps. Processing makes many nutrients more digestible and bioavailable, but at the same time, there is always some amount of nutrient loss during processing.

In the old days, methods of “processing” grains used to be limited to things like soaking, crushing/cracking/rolling, or cooking… but then came along the intense milling practices, pelleting, extruding, fortification, etc. It’s safe to say the majority of popular mass market horse feeds are made entirely of over-processed ingredients these days.

I personally think we’ll see in time that while some amount of processing can be beneficial, over-processing of everything is not the healthiest strategy.

[Obsidian_Fire]

[QUOTE=tinah;8326874]
Dunno about horses, but soaking grains for the chickens gives substantially better feed economy. I bet somebody somewhere had studied it.[/QUOTE]

You know earlier this summer I was “farm sitting” for my sister, who has chickens. It was mega-hot around here so I ended up going out twice a day to water everything. Since I was there I’d let the water just run in the chicken pen. The Scratch got wet and the pen got muddy. In 2 days time, in spite of the heat, I had doubled the egg production from what my sis was getting.

Wet grain, or plentiful clean water, or both? Who knows? Just an anecdote.

[tbchick84]

Those of you feeding oats, where do you get them? None of our local feed stores carry just straight oats, only the main brands Poulin, BS & TC.

[SaddleFitterVA]

[QUOTE=butiwantedapony;8322796]
I switched them to Blue Seal Rider. It has minimal molasses and corn compared to other sweet feeds. I pay $12.49 per bag at TSC. I was paying $19-25 per bag of feed previously, and using more of it.

All of them have 24/7 access to either grass pasture or good quality, albeit not rich first cut grass/Timothy hay. I will also say that I was and continue to feed a small amount of Calf Manna to these three hard keepers.

I imagine my mare may need to switch back to something with lower sugar content next year when back in work, but we will see. She is a total fire cracker unless kept underweight, and I hate keeping my horses underweight so I deal with the Sparks For now I am saving a ton of money, feeding less grain and my horses are healthier.[/QUOTE]

I have fed Blue Seal feeds for almost 15 years…and my horses have NEVER liked the Sentinel lineup. I tried. Once or twice.

I use Dynasty Pro pellets (used to be Hunter pellets) and is a 14% protein, 6% fat pellet, and I feed their Pacer as the sweet feed, same ratio protein to fat I believe. I also feed beet pulp, soaked pellets, also Blue Seal.

Turns out their dog food is pretty good too, so the dogs eat Blue Seal…as do the chickens. One delivery per month.

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=SaddleFitterVA;8327431]
I have fed Blue Seal feeds for almost 15 years…and my horses have NEVER liked the Sentinel lineup. I tried. Once or twice.

I use Dynasty Pro pellets (used to be Hunter pellets) and is a 14% protein, 6% fat pellet, and I feed their Pacer as the sweet feed, same ratio protein to fat I believe. I also feed beet pulp, soaked pellets, also Blue Seal.

Turns out their dog food is pretty good too, so the dogs eat Blue Seal…as do the chickens. One delivery per month.[/QUOTE]

The Dynasty Pro pellets are what I’ve been using for the last couple of years; but they’re up to $17.99 per bag around here now, so I’m slowly switching over to the Rider for the winter as the proportions are not that different of protein/fat/fiber. I already see an uptick in enthusiasm for the morning feed!

(Do you really think a 2% nutrient difference “registers” to a horse? I don’t!)

Their Blue Seal Pork & Barley is an AWESOME dog food and has no soy, wheat, or corn products in it. I’ve been feeding it for years to my (now 5!) dogs and their weight and energy levels stay super on it. It’s a very useful compromise between the crap dog foods and the super-high-end designer types.

[Mosey_2003]

[QUOTE=tbchick84;8327357]
Those of you feeding oats, where do you get them? None of our local feed stores carry just straight oats, only the main brands Poulin, BS & TC.[/QUOTE]
From the Co Op. Or they sell them in bags plain at Rural King and Farm and Fleet.

[JB]

TC has a triple-cleaned racehorse oats bag, so where you have TC, they should have the oats, or at least be able to get them.

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=brody;8322889]
There absolutely was colic back in the days of sweet feed and oats.

I wore out many pairs of boots walking various horses at various barns on all night walk a thons. I remember horses being sent for surgery and not coming back as well :([/QUOTE]

I’ll bet that was also the “time before Ivermectin”.

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=millerra;8326911]
My lower level (training) event horses and retirees get cheap feed - a whole oats (2/3)/cracked corn (1/3) mix made by the local feed company per our order. They also get 1x per day a mineral supplement + 1 cup flax seed and all the alfalfa/grass/red clover hay + grass they can eat. They all look great and all of them get no more than 2-3 lbs/grain per day.

I’ve tried commercial grains. W/ strategy I could feed 10 lbs/day and a couple were still rib thin. Sweet feed made one horse hotter than a pistol (crawling out of her skin hot)…

It works for me and I don’t really care too much that it isn’t fancy, expensive feed. I have nice, round, shiny horses w/ good feet.[/QUOTE]

What’s your definition of “sweet feed”?

[findeight]

Oh, I never said there was NO colic. But it was not common in the southwest where I lived and kept horses with an alfalfa based diet with little else. I never really saw more then a handful of colics until I moved back east maybe 25 years ago.

To this day, only had, maybe, 5 vet bills for colics bad enough to need a vet in 45 years. Only one required a trip to a clinic and that one had other issues but recovered without surgery. Some of that is luck, but have to think some is a good hay based diet with a minimum of concentrates and sensible managment.

Parasite control is way better but even back when we fasted and tubed them, just never saw many colics.

ETA, for gumtree, I define sweet feed as corn based with molasses, other contents vary. Never fed much of it, preferred a drier grain mix lighter in the corn or just oats, no more then 5lbs a day split onto two feedings.

[Flash44]

In the 35 years that I’ve been keeping horses, I’ve had one colic, and that horse had just arrive a few hours earlier. Always feed lots of hay/pasture, and premium concentrates according to directions. And I know plenty of people from the past 35 years who have had horses colic.

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=brody;8322889]
There absolutely was colic back in the days of sweet feed and oats.

I wore out many pairs of boots walking various horses at various barns on all night walk a thons. I remember horses being sent for surgery and not coming back as well :([/QUOTE]

The general school of thought from those who have been studying colic and the causes. They feel it has more to do with Stable management and the type of forage being feed than blaming it on “sweet feed”. Lack of adequate turnout is another factor that comes up in discussions I’ve had. But I have worked at Racetracks with TBs who get no “turnout” other than being galloped and walked daily. I saw VERY few cases of colic. None that I can remember that needed surgery. I have been indirectly involved with a lot of racehorses over the years. I have never had to pay a vet bill for colic.

In the 12 years we have had this farm with an average population of around 35 but as high as 60+ of all “shapes and sizes”. We have only 1 horse that needed colic surgery and maybe the “odd” bought of minor colic that responded to basic treatment protocol.

We get our feed from a private family owned mill. I suppose it would be “classified” as a type of “sweet feed”.

The only time we had a lot of issues with how our horses looked was when a “nutritionist” from K-R stopped by and talked me into switching to “their program” and using Pennfield. It was a disaster.

[millerra]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8328124]
What’s your definition of “sweet feed”?[/QUOTE]

added molasses