Just thought you might me interested in the spin on this editorial in the Daily Local News in West Chester, PA. It is about foxhunting.
http://www.dailylocal.com/articles/2008/12/04/opinion/srv0000004199115.txt
Does anybody know if there are any laws in PA that allow a hunter to “trespass” to retreive a hunting dog/hound?
I can tell you my experience in Chester County, 4 years ago I moved to East Nantmeal and one December morning my dogs were all going crazy over a SUV that had backed up and parked in my driveway. After a couple of minutes I went out to the SUV to ask if perhaps they needed assistance since they had turned off the engine. The woman I encountered had to be the rudest woman I had ever met and informed me in quite a snotty tone that she was with “Doc Addis” and gave me a look like how dare I question why she is sitting in MY driveway. Now I have no idea who this “Doc Addis” is and I know one thing for sure, he or she has never made any contribution to my mortgage payment so I have no idea why this woman thought it was her god given right to park in my driveway and give me such an attitude. I have since learned from a neighbor that it was the hunt going thru and they keep watch to make sure if the hounds cross the street they can do it safely. They have used my driveway dozens of times and I usually go out to watch and listen to the hunt going by but I can tell you this, if I didn’t love the horses and hounds there would be no way anyone with that attitude was ever stepping foot on my property again.
pregreen, I think that the hunt might want to know about your experience, because if they are smart, they do not want this woman pissing offing landowners along the path of the hunt. Just a thought.
Well, this does look like a classic case of foxhunters being their own worst enemy. The ‘but we’ve always hunted here’ line of reasoning will doom us to failure. Never mind the antis, if we alienate the landowners, we won’t be hunting.
If the article is accurate, there is no way that anyone more than perhaps the huntsman or a whipper-in needs to go looking for those hounds, and even then the situations where you would have to affirmatively go get a hound are not frequent. I have, more than once, as a whipper-in, stopped at the property line, knowing of a landowner’s firm request that the hunt stay off. You just wait for the hounds to hunt on through and pick them up on the other side- or the huntsman blows for them and they come back.
If you know you are going to be hunting near forbidden territory, to me it only makes sense to contact a ‘hostile’ landowner BEFORE the meet and explain that we’ll be in the neighborhood, we certainly will respect your wishes and we hope you’ll understand that if the fox takes our hounds across your property we will ONLY enter your property if necessary to retrieve hounds, and we’ll ring your doorbell first if you wish.
Unfortunately like the rest of society I suppose, increasingly we have Masters who are more out of touch with the land and have little to no clue about successful landowner relations (and this isn’t new either, I can think of individuals going back 20 years who just ‘assumed’ that since certain landowners had always been okay with the hunt there was no need to visit them several times a year or extend other basic courtesies to them).
Pregreen- if I were you I’d have given Doc Addis a friendly call. I guess I’m appalled at the presumption of whomever that was that greeted you in such a manner- again, even the legendary need to remember their manners.
Y’all do realize this is an opinion piece and may or may not have any basis in fact.
As to the OP’s question, it does not have a simple answer, and laws and regulations conflict.
Pregreen, this reminds me of the time a hot air balloonist set down on the property next to mine. Immediately my place was overrun with rude, obnoxious idiots and their worse children. My horses were terrorized, my garden was trampled, the chase vehicle parked in our drive, and everybody seemed to think I should have been flattered to have been in their presence and grateful my poor earthbound existence had been briefly enhanced by the inconvenience. The then Mr Jeano and myself told them to collect their children from out of our garden and promised them a lawsuit if a horse was injured and a shotgun reception if they ever fell out of the sky near us again. They were really full of themselves. It had NEVER occured to these folks that anyone in the wide world wouldnt have been thrilled with the experience.
Like the hunt follower in your driveway, the balloonist’s crew could have expended one tiny drop of courtesy and ASKED if they could park on our place, they could have kept their children in the car, and they could have apologized for the mayhem. I understood perfectly that a big flat piece of acreage is better for landing than a powerline or a belt of trees. What they did was just inexcusably rude and presumptious.
From some of the comments it seems y’all have a maniac in your community - one who has a habit of brandishing a firearm and threatening to kill people.
Like I said - there’s always more to the story, isn’t there.
As an FYI it is my understanding that Doc Addis has a farmers pack and not a recognized hunt. I have met Doc a few times- he struck me as a man of few words. He is a vet but I don’t think he actually practices anymore. I have found many people in the Elverson area tend to assume EVERYBODY knows who Doc Addis is.
I fellow boarder lives in an area he hunts and I think she requested to be informed when the hunt was expected to hunt her area so she could bring in her cat. They have been very accommodating about letting her know. I think she said they send her a fixture card every year??? (I don’t hunt so I have no idea)
From the article I am assuming that there is no “right to retrieve” law like there is in VA. Here, the huntsman and staff may cross onto private property in order to retrieve hounds.
When I hunted in Loudoun county, there was a well known gentleman that would run out of his house with a shotgun if the hounds were crossing his three acres of heaven. He was one of the fanatical property rights (developer rights) people.
It’s a bit complicated. Some states have statutes that specifically address the retrieval of hunting dogs or legally downed game, or other property. In PA, there is a certain category of agricultural land that is open to the public (with exceptions), that provides the owners some tax relief. That isn’t to mean that anyone is allowed to traipse all over the place and peer into your windows.
But the absence of a statute does not mean that the act of retrieving a dog or child or trash or anything else is necessarily a crime. It depends on the circumstances. Trespass is often treated as a civil matter anyway.
Personally I’d be more concerned about the village maniac who threatens people with a firearm. Harsh words are one thing - but brandishing a firearm - no way.
Two sides to every story. But I am afraid I was hijacked by the comments! Some people love to get fired up. :winkgrin:
I’m with you JSwan, after reading the comments posted to the newspaper article from surrounding neighbors, it does sound like we have a nut on the loose. Taking that into consideration, if I were the Radnor Hunt I would steer very clear of hunting anywhere near that property. It’s just not worth it.
As a wheel whip for a hunt, I often have to back in to people’s driveways. Even when I have permission, I will always ask again, if the homeowner is present. Invariably it leads to a pleasant discussion of the day’s hunt (and sometimes an offer of morning coffee!). I have even fetched stray hounds from the local horse and animal rescue, who were amazed at how friendly and well cared for he was. They might never agree with us about hunting, but now they know we are not the devil incarnate and will allow us access to their fields. I sincerely appreciate the use of any landowner’s property. I wish more people understood that in today’s overdeveloped hunt country the road whips are there for the safety of the hounds and the motorists. Even though we don’t have snazzy pinques :lol: we are serious staff members. It is essential that every hunt member is a respectful ambassador for our beloved sport. A smile, a thank you and a wave can go a long way. If a property owner was uncomfortable with my presence, or if I disturbed any pets or livestock, I would immediately move on.
Several weeks ago at a hunt one of the members parted company with their horse, who then went running down the road, into a yard across the street from where the hunt has permission to hunt and torn down a clothes line in the yard. I was riding with the wheel whip and another member, who was able to catch the horse, then repair the clothes line while we reunited horse and rider. The homeowner said the hunt members were the nicest people and couldn’t believe someone had fixed her clothes line as it was no bother.
…
I had no idea I was “enculturated”. So I got that going for me, which is nice…
I actually posted here before when some of them rode through my boarding barn’s property despite past requests not to. I am definitely pro-hunting, and am hoping to try it next year, most likely with Radnor, but would not be entirely surprised if some of the hunt was not as polite as they could be. It does sound like the landowner is also a bit of a loon, there are definitely some of those around here. And I have also known quite a few people, including one of their former masters, who were wonderful.
My parents live in Radnor Hunt territory. They have given the Hunt permission to hunt on their land since they have owned the property. The riders are always polite and respectful. We had a problem once with them riding through the middle of our lawn (not the outskirts), they called the hunt to report it, and it hasn’t happened since.
They always send us tickets to events they have on the grounds and they are good about keeping the path clear of brush.
I’ve never had them be rude. We often have their dogs on our property afterwards and they are polite when they come to retrieve them. When my daughter is old enough, I’m looking forward to letting her watch the hunt go through the yard.
Please note, I have never ridden with Radnor Hunt. I don’t know anyone who does ride with the Hunt. Well, I’m sure through some sort of Kevin Bacon six degrees type thing, I do, but you know what I mean. 
When I pass them on the road, I am happy to slow down and stop. I enjoy watching them go by. I also slow down every time I pass a rider on the trails when I’m driving. I’ve had it happen to me too often where someone doesn’t slow down and the horse I’m riding spooks into the road. It’s common courtesy.
As someone else said, there are 2 sides to every story.
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