Chestnut WB developing mottled muzzle?

[IPEsq]

A horse I ride (not my horse) is a chestnut WB with a blaze and he has started developing pink skin spots around his muzzle where the skin was very recently gray/brown. They started at the corners of his mouth some weeks ago, so I thought maybe it was from bit irritation from the newish bit used by his new lessee (I have been riding this horse for about 9 months now in various tack, mostly my own bridles and bits).

Today, I go to ride the horse, and he has several spots now all over his mouth area and a couple at his nostrils. Horse is 8-10 years old (I can’t remember his age exactly).

I had a bay TB mare who developed vitiligo in her early teens that started in the snip area and slowly spread up her face. Luckily, her hair didn’t fall out–just turned white. These spots don’t really remind me of those spots. This area is also not hairy, so I can’t really say if there is noticeable hair loss, and horse was recently show trimmed (which I did and have done regularly throughout the course of my work with him).

Any thoughts as to what could be causing the spots? Overall, he has just shed out his winter coat and the rest of his coat looks great. We’ve had a little trouble keeping him in weight recently, but his workload was upped significantly, and he is maxed out on hay.

There is some weed ('round here, we call them wildflowers) growing in his paddock that I haven’t seen before wild but looks like maybe dill? It’s growing like crazy all over the paddocks. Horses won’t eat them, but they pick through them to get at the grass. Could it be an allergy? Nutritional issue? Or random onset of a skin disorder like vitiligo?

Owner has recently put him on a 2nd probiotic supplement. This new one is a liquid, and aside from the probiotics appears to be mostly molasses water. Otherwise, no dietary changes since I’ve known him.

[cmdrcltr]

It’s a deficiency in something…copper maybe? Someone more in the know will chime in, I bet. A good friend of mine had it happen to a couple of her ponies.

[stb]

I know someone with a horse who has something similar going on. The vet suggested that it might be a mineral deficiency. I think she mentioned copper and zinc, but not sure about that.

[IPEsq]

Hmm…owner periodically feeds free choice mineral powder, though I haven’t looked at the bag in a long time to see what minerals are contained in the powder. he also has access to various salt licks including the majikal pink kind. Horse does not get supplemented vitamins and minerals in his grain–is fed whole oats and alfalfa pellets. The first priobiotic supplement referred to in the OP is Probios.

[cmdrcltr]

A quick google search turns up the term Vitiligo, but in the quick skim I made it was unclear if that is limited to grey horses. Certainly the site I found made it seem so. Good luck getting an answer; I’m sure someone will know!

[IPEsq]

In my OP, I mentioned that I had a bay mare that was diagnosed with vitiligo…so, definitely not limited to grays!

In my mare, it was fairly concentrated at first into one spot on her face. It very, very slowly spread upwards from there. These spots are not similar in that they are random spots all over his muzzle, with many of them coming on all at once within the last 2 weeks. Not saying for sure it’s not vitiligo, but it’s not matching my previous experience with the condition at all.

[Laurierace]

I had a chestnut have that happen once. His skin looked perfectly normal aside from the change in coloration. So much so that I told the vet he was going to thing I was nuts but that white wasn’t there before. He gave me some derma cloth to use on it and it eventually returned to normal color. Not sure if that was in spite of th cloths or because of it.

[Fharoah]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;8129106]
Hmm…owner periodically feeds free choice mineral powder, though I haven’t looked at the bag in a long time to see what minerals are contained in the powder. he also has access to various salt licks including the majikal pink kind. Horse does not get supplemented vitamins and minerals in his grain–is fed whole oats and alfalfa pellets. The first priobiotic supplement referred to in the OP is Probios.[/QUOTE]

I would ask the vet about a complete mineral blood panel. My horse had one and was deficient in selenium and low in one other mineral. A year later I retested and now everything is back within normal range.

[fordtraktor]

Also rumor has it that wormy horses get this. Perhaps because the worms cause a vit deficiency in something? when I have seen it on a horse, usually hitting them with Zimectrin Gold will take care of it.

[JB]

That is something many red-based horses just do.

It could also be some vitiligo, which you can’t do anything about. If it’s just the muzzle area, and not the eyes, I would not suspect vitiligo.

Yes, a copper deficiency can cause depigmentation, but that’s a pretty good deficiency and unlikely to show up just on the head.

[JB]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8129605]
Also rumor has it that wormy horses get this. Perhaps because the worms cause a vit deficiency in something? when I have seen it on a horse, usually hitting them with Zimectrin Gold will take care of it.[/QUOTE]

Yes, enough worms of the right (or wrong!) kind can cause malnutrition because they block nutrient absorption. Encysted strongyles can do this, for example.

I would not use ZG though Not only will that not take care of encysted strongyles, it has the potential to cause oral ulceration, so Quest Plus and Equimax are far better choices all around.

[fordtraktor]

That’s probably true. The reason I do not generally choose to use those is that if this happens it is usually a new horse coming in and I have found it is better not to use QP on a new horse because if there is a big dieoff it can cause a colic. I would rather use ZG for the first worming then hit them with QP the next time. But that’s just my logic, maybe overcautious. I have never had any mouth ulcer issues or heard that before using ZG.

[merrygoround]

Is sunburn a possibility?

[JB]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8129993]
That’s probably true. The reason I do not generally choose to use those is that if this happens it is usually a new horse coming in and I have found it is better not to use QP on a new horse because if there is a big dieoff it can cause a colic. I would rather use ZG for the first worming then hit them with QP the next time. But that’s just my logic, maybe overcautious. I have never had any mouth ulcer issues or heard that before using ZG.[/QUOTE]

So many people here have said “ZG was never a problem for my horse until it was, now”

Just use Equimax - same benefits without the risk

[IPEsq]

Sunburn is a possibility. Sun is very strong here. But the skin looks very healthy, just containing a lot of de-pigmented spots. Took a peek at him today, and they are pretty much everywhere on his muzzle now including inside the nostrils. I have not noticed any spots on his eyes. He also has zero white on his body except for his blaze. No socks, no random spots or speckles.

Owner gave horse PP after our first freeze, as is her usual practice. Don’t know if she has plans to do anything this spring. She’s a little bit odd sometimes in her holistic horse care practices. Usually she does FECs, but I don’t know how often per year. I do know that all of her horses are some level of mod to high “shedders” based on her last FEC (I helped administer the PP to one of the horses who is a brat about paste), so I don’t know why she doesn’t necessarily deworm 2-4x a year. From her comments, it almost sounds like she expects the horses to stop being shedders just because she hits them with PP. I have learned not to go there.

Horse’s coat is just as lovely as it is every spring/summer. Beautiful coppery color, lots of shine, no dry skin. Strong mane and tail. nevertheless, he is not on any sort of ration balancer or complete feed, and his feet are not great (they are always kind of not great) so it is quite possible he’s not getting something that he should be getting. The “free choice” mineral powder are sort of sporadic in that the horse doesn’t touch it most of the time and then will all of a sudden gobble some up. It is offered as a stand alone thing, minerals are not added to his feed on a daily basis. Owner doesn’t have a bulk bag out at this barn (her horses are split up in a couple of places), and I don’t remember exactly what’s in it.

As an aside, this horse has since Feb 1st lived with my horse and they are buddies. My horse just had a negative FEC, for whatever that’s worth in terms of the pasture they have been on.

I have had a lot of redheads in my life and can’t recall another one that did this. The mottling isn’t as clustered as you might see on a gray horse or appy. The spots really look random, although maybe if they keep multiplying a pattern will appear. Sorry, should have taken a picture this morning.

[JB]

Assuming PP = Power Pack - not the right thing for after a freeze. It didn’t kill tapeworms, didn’t kill bots, and may have been ineffective enough against adult strongyles.

The description, without a picture, still sounds like a redhead thing.

[IPEsq]

Yes, Power Pack. Will try to get a picture. Might be a couple days.

[mroades]

Copper deficiency can cause vitiligo in horses, i believe that is what Lala had

[IPEsq]

But she had the best coat with dapples! I am confused.

[IPEsq]

Google image search took me to this site, which is exactly what the horse looks like, only he has many more spots now than the horse pictured:

http://www.illinoishorse.com/smf/index.php?topic=23271.0

Anyway, fairly symmetric, round, small pink skin spots on muzzle sort of randomly placed.