[QUOTE=Rusty Stirrup;1941948]
My tactful answer to these questions are “one theory is that the chestnut is the remainer of a toe” and I always add “another is that it is where the legs press together in the womb”. I always hope they except that and don’t notice the ergot. [/QUOTE]
Thank you, Rusty, for posting an actual, helpful answer to the OP’s question, rather than turning this into a creation -vs- evolution debate as some very tacky other posters have chosen to do. 
No, it wouldn’t. And once the recipient of the favors of the 72 virgins got about halfway through the roster, I bet he’d wonder if he got sent to hell by mistake. 
My all-time favorite, though, is Trevanian’s comment, about Arab’s preferring virgins, because they dread comparison.
You know I haven’t gotten a chance to post - or even lurk - here for quite a while, but this thread has been quite a read! Here are some great links that explain much better then I ever could:
Did the modern horse evolve from a fox-like creature?
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c016.html
Ande since someone asked about dinosuars…
If everything was created in 7 days…on what day were the dinosaurs made?
http://www.christiananswers.net/dinosaurs/j-where1.html
Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feed on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God…" -Job 40:15-19 (NIV)
Sure sounds like a Dinosaur-like creature to me…But getting back to the Horse Chestnuts…
What difference does it make whether Adam and Eve were covered in hair and climbed in trees?
Well, while I certainly don’t claim to know all the answers, and while a lot of them I just don’t care - like, why do horses have chestnuts? - this is one thing that I do think matters, because believing that we evolved from apes would make me an atheist, and I just don’t have the faith to be, well…an atheist.
Sometimes, God nudged a little here or there…
I gotta say that my God is a little different. He lives in me, and is in control of my life - although there are times when stupid, stubborn me thinks I can do things better then he can…and I totally screw things up, lol.
keep teaching what you believe. However, do not return the ridicule. Be respectful and flexible, but do not compromise - or hold on to - your beliefs for convenience.
I totally agree with this.:yes:
Originally Posted by WingedPanda http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
Why do horses have chestnuts and ergots? Because the Flying Spaghetti Monster put them there when he touched the first horse with His Noodly Appendage. Duh.
I vote for this one :D.
As a um . . . “mature” . . . Bible-believing/studying Evangelical Christian with an entire library of reference/background material to peruse and some time spent in seminary classes, I can say with some confidence that the subject of horse chestnuts and ergots isn’t addressed in the Bible. God apparently had other priorities.
Whatever I say or believe, I hope and pray that I have the decency and courtesy share this in a gentle kind caring manner. Otherwise, no matter what I say, I’m wrong.
Amen! :yes:
As for the answer to the OP’s question…
I just explain that some people believe that it used to be a toe way back when, but until I see actual proof that the modern horse really did come from something that looks like cross between a fox and an Armadillo, I think that the horse’s Chestnut is what it is…and what it isn’t is something to loose sleep over.
Regarding the first link posted:
O.C. Marsh commented on living horses with multiple toes, and said there were cases in the American Southwest where “both fore and hind feet may each have two extra digits fairly developed, and all of nearly equal size, thus corresponding to the feet of the extinct Protohippus”.
Yes, cases. Not every living horse. If anything, this is a bit of information FOR evolution.
In National Geographic (January 1981, p. 74), there is a picture of the foot of a so-called early horse, Pliohippus, and one of the modern Equus that were found at the same volcanic site in Nebraska. The writer says: “Dozens of hoofed species lived on the American plains.” Doesn’t this suggest two different species, rather than the evolutionary progression of one?
Coexistence is common during evolution. So yes, it suggests 2 species in the process of evolution.
There is no one site in the world where the evolutionary succession of the horse can be seen. Rather, the fossil fragments have been gathered from several continents on the assumption of evolutionary progress, and then used to support the assumption. This is circular reasoning, and does not qualify as objective science.
Migration is very common. It would have been unusual for the horse to remain entirely in one area for millions of years, especially as a grazing animal.
The theory of horse evolution has very serious genetic problems to overcome. How do we explain the variations in the numbers of ribs and lumbar vertebrae within the imagined evolutionary progression? For example, the number of ribs in the supposedly “intermediate” stages of the horse varies from 15 to 19 and then finally settles at 18. The number of lumbar vertebrae also allegedly swings from six to eight and then returns to six again.
Clearly, variations in these attributes were better for each species. 18 was apparently the ideal number. (i.e., they started with 15, but it was better to have more, so then they evolved to 19, but that was too many, so eventually natural selection settled on 18).
Finally, when evolutionists assume that the horse has grown progressively in size over millions of years, what they forget is that modern horses vary enormously in size. The largest horse today is the Clydesdale; the smallest is the Fallabella, which stands at17 inches (43 centimeters) tall. Both are members of the same species, and neither has evolved from the other.
This is the easiest one to disprove. Those breeds were created by humans who selectively bred horses. You don’t see that kind of variation in wild horses–these extremes are a mandmade creation.
[QUOTE=Appassionato;1944046]
Just to be clear, scientifically prove what? That there are Christians? Or something else? I ask because I’m curious with intelligent design being presented to students, why this guy’s name was never brought up.[/QUOTE]
It has been a long time since I read these books and they’re highly technical, so forgive me for not remembering all of it. 
One example I can think of is the argument that Jesus’ followers came in, rolled the stone covering the tomb aside, and stole his body. He did a lot of research on things such as the size and weight of the stones used to cover the tombs (I think they’re in the range of a ton or so, but don’t quote me), the rules and regulations of the military in that time, and refuted several different things. For example, a unit back in those times was (again, I think) somewhere around 100 soldiers. So how would a few men sneak past a hundred legionnaires assigned to guard that tomb against that specific thing (they knew the prophecy that he would arise again and wanted to prevent his disciples from stealing the body), be able to roll that massive stone away, and sneak back out again alive with the dead body? It would have taken that entire unit of soldiers to just move the stone. Add to that the fact that the penalty for things such as falling asleep on duty was death. He gives way more information than I’ve given here, but that’s a very rough example of the types of things he addresses. It’s a very interesting read, if you can understand it (lots of formulas and math…I have to admit that some of it went way over my head).
THAT type of evolution, I believe in and don’t think it excludes God from the picture.
Not sure what you’re referring to…? The statement that certain things ppl (whether Christian or not) do or say make Christians look stupid/extremist/etc?
I was homeschooled in a Christian environment and my science class was Equine Anatomy. I learned about the evolution of the horse in that course and my mother never once said that I shouldn’t learn it b/c of our religion. I think that many people don’t understand the difference between evolution as in genetic mutations and changes that occur to keep up with the environment and evolution as in “we evolved from apes” bs.
[QUOTE=dizzywriter;1944450]Personally, I’ve decided that don’t want to be among the 144,000 saved folks. If the guest list is decided by intolerant belief in hooey, I think that the company in hell will be far more interesting.
choo choo[/QUOTE]
LOL, our church did a variation on a haunted house and I was “in Hell” for the first few years and had a blast! The last year I was in it, I was “in Heaven” and was SOOOO bored. I just don’t believe in the typical ‘gold sashes and harps and halos and everything is white and fluffy’ view of Heaven. I begged to go back to “hell” lol! I KNOW Heaven isn’t like what was depicted there b/c it says there will be no tears in Heaven and I was certainly bored to tears!
Oh, THAT particular arguement ain’t logic – it’s some subsection of Murphy’s Law, and I can guarantee you, it’s ALWAYS right. :winkgrin:
I think it’s funny that folks are all arguing about this from the Christian perspective. Like there are not other philosophies like Buddhism, for example; a religion that cheerfully accepts that though their religion may hold a certain idea to be true - if science comes along and disproves it - they accept that as well - it does not diminish their faith and philosophy.
It’s all good.
[QUOTE=jetsmom;1941669]
Tell them God put them there to test the faith of creationists…much like why we have Duckbill Platypusses.
(or re the DP- God was stoned and thought, “Hey…This will really mess with their minds…I’ll make something that looks like a Beaver, has a bill like a duck,and is a mammal that lays eggs. That will really mess with those people that believe in evolution…Hey Moses!!!Check this out!!!”[/QUOTE]
hehehe! jetsmom, you’re hilarious!
Maybe there were papyrus scrolls about “how to keep my heels down”.
The library was established around the Third Century BC, when Xenophon was writing his treatises on horsemanship, so it’s entirely conceivable some of his works were there. Kinda like the DIY Chilton’s Automotive Manuals in our modern libraries! :lol:
You can visualize an ancient version of Rodney Redneck, badly bruised and covered with manure (instead of grease), walking up the the librarian and asking: “Look, I got dis problem wit’ muh stallion. Ya got any good scrolls on da subject?”
Man, ain’t THAT the truth!!!
OakesBrae, I see that we will be ending up spending eternity together!
[QUOTE=greysandbays;1945022]
Oh, THAT particular arguement ain’t logic – it’s some subsection of Murphy’s Law, and I can guarantee you, it’s ALWAYS right. :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
…oh. :uhoh: Um. Ok, well have fun with it.
LOL! (and with the age they marry the girls off, who would want to be stuck with 72 giggling teenies…)
That is a very interesting point. You know people, the Bible was written by Humans… afterall. There are many Chapters that are not in the newest versions of the Bible because Priests (Humans all of them) voted on which ones to keep and which ones not to.
Religion is guided by humans. Yes God is the focus, but everything that is written in the Bible is an interpretation by Humans.
I am Catholic, and personally, I am so sick of the Human part of my church I can’t stand it, to the point I am actually considering switching. A lot of these churches are all about Power and Money, even above the teachings of the Lord! The American church is just a variation of the Catholic church. You should see the crap going on in other countries. It’s a part of every piece of politics, wars, economics and everything else. It’s also very segregated. They lock the churches to keep the locals out, only certain people are let in in many areas. I am talking about South America here.
I believe in evolution and I still believe in God. I don’t know the answer to the chestnut question and I don’t think many others do either. I guess I may just leave that one up for God to know… and for me not to worry about. There are a lot more important things to worry about than that, like what the hell are we doing in the Middle East?
Ok, enough of my rant. This thread is really something. :rolleyes:
I think God created the 5 footed horse first and that’s why
[QUOTE=DressageGeek “Ribbon Ho”;1945408]
OakesBrae, I see that we will be ending up spending eternity together![/QUOTE]
Did you mean me?
“we evolved from apes” bs !!! Interesting attitude considering the part of my post you quoted …:lol:
Originally Posted by [B]crackerjack[/B] <a href="http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=1944254#post1944254">[IMG]http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif)</a>
[I]I work in a library and there are many highly religious homeschoolers that come in. Two of these parents were talking about videos they had taken out and one remarked - oh that one includes evolution theories and we would never take THAT out (she sneered as she said that)!
[/I]
Saying it’s bs and sneering are pretty much the same attitude. If someone to disprove this theory with scientific evidence that was accepted by the whole scientific community I’d be ok with that - it may be that we were just plonked on this earth by a god. I’m already on this earth it doesn’t really matter to me how we got here.
La Gringa I agree with you. Religion and belief is one thing - Organized Religion can be a whole different kettle of fish.
Who knew that horse chestnuts could cause such a ruckus!!
I’ll likely be there too if it’s 145k - although I’ve read that part and that’s not what it says. People can’t read worth beans.
It’s funny, it kind of reminds me of a conversation I had with an oil company when I moved into a new house and erroneously didn’t call and “become a customer” prior to my oil furnace deciding to stop working.
Customer Service lady - “well, I can leave a message for the guys but they won’t get to it until Monday because you’re not a current customer”
Me - “so what you’re saying is that I have to go without heat all weekend because I didn’t have a need to call you guys before now”
Customer Service lady “No, that’s not what I’m saying, I’m saying that they won’t take after hours calls from customers who are not current customers”
Me - “That’s exactly what you are saying. You are saying that I have to go without heat all weekend because I am not a current customer”
Customer Service Lady - “No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that they will not get to your call until Monday because you are not a current customer”
Me - “Then you are saying that I have to go without heat all weekend because I am not a current customer - that’s the same thing”
Customer Service Lady - “No it’s not”
Me, getting so hot under the collar now that I don’t even need heat - “Well, if this is your approach to customer service I do not find it acceptable at any rate, so I will not be using your company” - Click.
Same kind of circular conversation. I question my sanity even getting involved.
Yes I did! And it was even in the quote…which is why I am finishing my coffee because obviously I simply didn’t have enough caffeine and sugar in me.
So - dizzywriter - guess we’ll meet up in hell, yes? Hope our horses will be there too!
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