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Chiropractor - forms for the primary vet to sign?

Find another chiropractor (one that is a vet or human dr) and ask them to come adjust your horse. You don’t have to become a client of another vet practice to do this. Simply look for other chiros in the area.

Example: I message my chiro (who has a vet degree)
“Hey xyz, could you come out for an assessment and an adjustment? Please advise the costs and requirements and also when we could set up a time”.

Done.

Your vet doesn’t need involved at all.

Horse gets adjusted.

All is well :slight_smile:

I am confused, does this form have to be signed again before every time the chiro comes?

I could do this, yes (though there are not many vets around here, it’s a serious issue).

But if I’m going to do that, I’ll just have my vet adjust her, regardless of my faith in him.

Realistically, I think she will survive. This was a preventative thing, not due to any problem. Until I have a pressing need, I’m not going to push my luck.

No, it’s a once-and-done for each horse.

My former vet (moved on to small animal :frowning: ) was also a chiropractor. I asked about whether I should have him adjust my horse. He watched her move. He ran hands over her. “There is nothing to adjust. I don’t need to take your money for doing nothing. I will absolutely adjust her if there is ever anything to do.”

So, if you’re wanting to have it done just to make yourself feel better - save your money :slight_smile: or even better, spend it on a fabulous massage therapist who understands your sport and will not just make pony feel better but will help you figure out exercises for loosening/strengthening problem areas. THAT is money well spent - some of the best training assistance I’ve ever received has come from my horse’s REMT :heart:

For instance, X needs to be stronger in order to allow Y to relax and stretch. This limb/neck/pelvis needs to move in this direction to do that. Then we’d discuss how she wanted the horse to move and which exercises (from galloping to travers) would best accomplish it.

Editing to add that she WILL call me out for going too far in one direction or another which is also a great training aid. “You’ve been doing too much collection and not enough stretching” or “You’re collection is not currently 100% through because X,Y, and Z muscles are overdeveloped right now.” And we will discuss and come up with a list of tasks/exercises to fix whatever I’ve inadvertently wrecked. Worth her weight in gold!

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Then the explanation given why this has to happen does not make sense. If the vet signature is to say that there are not injuries, then a one and done does not work.

Honestly not a whole lot about this makes sense to me, other than apparently getting the form signed is IL law?

Here is the redacted form, for anyone wondering what it contains. It says nothing about soundness.

It’s basically confirming the horse is healthy enough to be worked on and has already been seen, and confirms no other issues as my post above explained. Doesn’t have to spell out the exact things the vet would be looking for.

But don’t take it from me, listen to the RideIQ interview with a very well known and respected vet and Chiro. She went over this in detail.

She’s covering herself liability wise which honestly is smart.

I am not doubting what you said or any of the other stuff you are saying I am doing or not doing.

I am saying that it is not a logical reasoning if this form is signed once and covers this chiro touching this horse for the rest of its life.

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The only thing I can think of (other than wanting all care veterinary or chiro to stay within the vet practice) is that the vet may be reading the bottom bolded section incorrectly?

It’s a stretch, but at first quick scan I read it backwards - that the chiro can ask the vet for info on the patient and not the other way around. It’s a reach, but if you’re still dead set on having this chiropractor, maybe reach out to the vet and clarify the direction of informational travel is one way, strictly from chiro TO vet if the vet should request it and that the vet is absolutely NOT obligated to discuss the patient with the chiropractor at all.

Well, I’ll tell you that I haven’t had to have this formed signed before, ever. I’ve had multiple renowned chiros work on my horses through the years, and not all of them were DVMs.

So this isn’t the case everywhere, or for every practitioner.

I don’t take off work for every horsie appointment, because I need money to feed and house the critter. Adding a different practitioner to the schedule complicates things for my BO, who has a grand total of two boarders.

I waded through some of the referenced IL statute and found this:

" A member in good standing of another licensed
or regulated profession within any state or a member of
an organization or group approved by the Department by
rule providing assistance requested by a veterinarian
licensed in this State acting with informed consent from
the client and acting under the direct or indirect
supervision and control of the licensed veterinarian.
Providing assistance involves hands-on active
participation in the treatment and care of the patient,
as defined by rule. The licensed veterinarian shall
maintain responsibility for the
veterinarian-client-patient relationship."

For some reason, I can’t highlight/italicize/bold/color the part I want to emphasize, but it is the bit about “direct or indiret supervision and control” of the DVM.
That puts the responsibility for an adverse outcome right back on the DVM, regarardless of the chiropractor’s insurance.
It might be why your DVM is touchy about it.

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That’s what I figured, that somehow there was liability involved. Thanks for looking into it, I really appreciate it.

I’m not going to push him anymore, as I wouldn’t sign the form either if I were in his position.

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I’m not going to say I’m procrastinating on something I don’t want to start, but I went for a little wander on the Google and found this:

"Q.: May chiropractic physicians in Illinois adjust or otherwise treat animals?**

A.: No. The Medical Practice Act limits chiropractic scope to human ailments and conditions. The Veterinary Medicine and Surgery Practice Act includes chiropractic manipulation of animals in the definition of veterinary medicine, which requires a veterinary license. Therefore, D.C.s do not have direct access to provide care to animals under any circumstances; i.e., an animal owner may not directly seek services from a chiropractic physician to be performed on the animal.

The veterinary law and rules allow non-veterinarian licensed health care professionals to treat animals by providing assistance to a licensed veterinarian, but only if specific conditions are met. … "

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In big bold under that… " The licensed veterinarian maintains responsibility and general supervision for the chiropractic treatment under this arrangement."

Yeah, now I’m totally understanding why my vet won’t sign this.

Edit: I don’t understand why ANY vet would sign it, with the way the law appears to be.

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It sounds like the way the law is structured and written is to incentivize that chiropractic and veterinary care is given by the same provider (and therefore that the provider is a licensed vet, since, like you said, a vet is unlikely to accept liability of the care of another provider). I assume there’s a bit of a tortured legal history behind this?

Regardless, it sounds like the easiest thing (I hate to say) is to let the vet do the chiropractic work, and hope your horse’s body is as happy with it as with the previous chiro.

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My vet told me that any equine chiropractor should also be a DVM. If not I do not want to use them.

Keep in mind I have only had a equine chiropractor out to do a horse once but it was after my vet told me and she was in agreement with him . She was also a DVM.

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Sounds like it would be easiest to get your current vet on a schedule that matches the BO’s. Is that not possible if you schedule it routinely?

I can see why your vet won’t sign off on it.

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This! But you have to find a good one. I’m afraid it’s trial and error.

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