Choosing a different bit - bracing

Hi everyone, I’m new on here.

My horse is currently competing at medium level dressage but one of the basic issues we are still having is that when we halt at x, salute and take the contact up again, he braces and lifts his head as I ask him to move off. Once we take a few strides hes fine again.

When I take a contact in walk or halt in our general training he initially braces against me also and I have to move the bit with gentle squeezes to relax his jaw. I also need him to keep a more consistent contact in our test.

He is currently ridden in a springer kk ulta with a cavesson noseband.

I was wondering does he not like the lozenge on his tongue and should I try a different type of bit? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

Work on this issue in your warmup. Be sure you are not dropping the contact at the salute; reestablish contact softly. Push him into the contact directly at moveoff.
Don’t let him get away with it in training - perhaps maintain a stronger contact with one rein at the halt (remember to be shoulder-fore) and through to the move off. Repeat as necessary.

THis might also be a tooth or balance(strength) issue…

Contact generally is because of the rider’s hands and lack of training - you and horse or horse or you. Generally. But could be he has a low palate. French links are flatter and worked well on soft mouthed horses. Some horses prefer a stiffer shank, so egg-butt is nice, or maybe need some movement so loose ring.

Consider softening the hand on the same side of the leg pushing off. This allows the hind leg to come through as well as relieving the horse of feeling confined. Sounds like you understand softening with sponging fingers, the giving is just a hair more of this. Also practice lengthening and shortening the rein at walk and trot. That will help you both with connection - which everyone has to work on regularly. Good rein contact should feel like a solid hand-shake with alternating control and no slack (ex. like you holding the horse’s hand then he is holding yours). Anyway, good luck :slight_smile:

You can try a simple snaffle, but I’d say this is overall a training issue. The horse needs to learn to give to the bit, rather than push against it. For that, he needs suppling exercises and a quiet hand. My guess is that this is not the only time in your ride that he is braced, only the time when he has enough loose rein to express his brace.

I would suggest going back to working him on a long stretch to the bit, seeing if you can get walk/trot/halt transitions with consistent stretch to contact on the bit.

My guess is that even when he is “in frame” or “on the bit,” he is actually still braced against the bit, even if his neck looks “round.”

all horses do this. :slight_smile:

I would get him softer so when you take one side or the other he answers quickly with a response and doesn’t get “pissy” and brace.

Also make sure you are still using the core and seat to keep him on the aids in the halt. Don’t drop him and pick up again. Keep him together. (by use the seat I mean stacking your body and having good alignment, so soft squishy wiggle in the middle of the body)

Hold the halt with your body and legs, Add a little more weight to the reins, a quick light L-R squeeze with your fingers, as you sit deeper and move forward. He cannot brace if you give him nothing to brace against. He cannot hollow if ridden well forward.

It’s not the bit, it is the coordination of aids.

He just comes behind the bit instead of taking it forward. I contacted Neue Schule today and the girl said that the lozenge might be pressing on a sensitive area of his tongue and that is what is making him back off the contact. She has recommended the turtle tactio - The new Turtle Tactio™ is designed to refocus rein pressure to the central part of the tongue where it is at its thickest whilst diverting pressure away from the sensitive regions near the bars. The unique central ‘Turtle’ link is built to the shape of the upper palate and brings the cannons closer together than ever before in order to take up less space.

The mouthpiece is cleverly engineered to ensure that the bit remains in the desired position. The cannons have a reduced depth to in turn, reduce the pressure between the bars whilst maintaining a good weight-bearing surface which lies flat and comfortably against the tongue even under rein tension.

The comfort provided by the design may eliminate the need to close the mouth but with whatever noseband you may use; there is space to comfortably accommodate this mouthpiece – making it a much more humane way to go about it.

[QUOTE=Cazzabazza;8618881]
Hi everyone, I’m new on here.

My horse is currently competing at medium level dressage but one of the basic issues we are still having is that when we halt at x, salute and take the contact up again, he braces and lifts his head as I ask him to move off. Once we take a few strides hes fine again.

When I take a contact in walk or halt in our general training he initially braces against me also and I have to move the bit with gentle squeezes to relax his jaw. I also need him to keep a more consistent contact in our test.

He is currently ridden in a springer kk ulta with a cavesson noseband.

I was wondering does he not like the lozenge on his tongue and should I try a different type of bit? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cazzabazza;8619780]He just comes behind the bit instead of taking it forward. I contacted Neue Schule today and the girl said that the lozenge might be pressing on a sensitive area of his tongue and that is what is making him back off the contact. She has recommended the turtle tactio - The new Turtle Tactio™ is designed to refocus rein pressure to the central part of the tongue where it is at its thickest whilst diverting pressure away from the sensitive regions near the bars. The unique central ‘Turtle’ link is built to the shape of the upper palate and brings the cannons closer together than ever before in order to take up less space.

The mouthpiece is cleverly engineered to ensure that the bit remains in the desired position. The cannons have a reduced depth to in turn, reduce the pressure between the bars whilst maintaining a good weight-bearing surface which lies flat and comfortably against the tongue even under rein tension.

The comfort provided by the design may eliminate the need to close the mouth but with whatever noseband you may use; there is space to comfortably accommodate this mouthpiece – making it a much more humane way to go about it.[/QUOTE]

So is he bracing or is he ducking, because your posts contradict each other?

[QUOTE=Cazzabazza;8619780]
He just comes behind the bit instead of taking it forward. I contacted Neue Schule today and the girl said that the lozenge might be pressing on a sensitive area of his tongue and that is what is making him back off the contact…[/QUOTE]

possible, I have never had a lozenge do this…

remember that this is a bit company so of course they will tell you to buy a new bit :wink:

The best advice I can get is work with a good equine dentist- I had mine draw my horses’ mouth shape for me (during the float) and we talked about bits.

My opinion is that I think people sometimes give bits way too much power in the equation vs training! Sure, for some reason all my horses’ HATED french links, but barring some preference I think some people just get carried away with the latest and greatest.

[QUOTE=Cazzabazza;8619780]
He just comes behind the bit instead of taking it forward. I contacted Neue Schule today and the girl said that the lozenge might be pressing on a sensitive area of his tongue and that is what is making him back off the contact. She has recommended the turtle tactio - The new Turtle Tactio™ is designed to refocus rein pressure to the central part of the tongue where it is at its thickest whilst diverting pressure away from the sensitive regions near the bars. The unique central ‘Turtle’ link is built to the shape of the upper palate and brings the cannons closer together than ever before in order to take up less space.

The mouthpiece is cleverly engineered to ensure that the bit remains in the desired position. The cannons have a reduced depth to in turn, reduce the pressure between the bars whilst maintaining a good weight-bearing surface which lies flat and comfortably against the tongue even under rein tension.

The comfort provided by the design may eliminate the need to close the mouth but with whatever noseband you may use; there is space to comfortably accommodate this mouthpiece – making it a much more humane way to go about it.[/QUOTE]

So, you became a new member to ask about a problem but actually just wanted to pitch a new bit.

I guess that’s fairly resourceful. Probably against forum rules. But resourceful.

[QUOTE=netg;8619791]
So is he bracing or is he ducking, because your posts contradict each other?[/QUOTE]

He braces his neck and ducks behind the bit with his head above the bit. Hope I’m explaining this right

[QUOTE=ACMEeventing;8620094]
So, you became a new member to ask about a problem but actually just wanted to pitch a new bit. [/QUOTE]

I don’t want to pitch a new bit at all, I’m looking for helpful advice and to see if anyone has had a similar experience!

[QUOTE=Cazzabazza;8620254]
I don’t want to pitch a new bit at all, I’m looking for helpful advice and to see if anyone has had a similar experience![/QUOTE]

I would not go out and buy an expensive bit in an attempt to fix this problem.

And I would not follow the advice of a person on the payroll to market such a bit. I would follow the recommendations of those above. The gal you spoke with probably makes minimum wage to phone market bits to those who are naive enough to think that such a person can offer training advice.

While I like the NS bits, you are probably just the victim of simple marketing…

[QUOTE=Cazzabazza;8620251]
He braces his neck and ducks behind the bit with his head above the bit. Hope I’m explaining this right[/QUOTE]

I’m finding this hard to visualize…

FWIW there are places that will rent bits and many people who have had horses for any length of time will have a collection that they will lend out.

Bits are kind of like bras. It should fit, it should work but it’s just not right. The latest and greatest and most expensive might not be the one your horse prefers.

Sophie’s bit was fished out of the closeout bin at our local tack store for $15.

Hi, Cazzabazza,
I am wondering the breed of your horse. I have a Welsh Cob who pops up his head and inverts his back practically 24/7. He was breed to pull a carriage, and it’s hard to fight his genetics. But, he has gotten better over the years. It’s worse when he is tense and anxious, as he is at some show venues. For him, it’s all about getting his brain to focus, and his body to relax, and that routine begins as soon as I put on his halter.

You’ve got to keep his back up at all times, and that often means using your calves, not your heel or spur. Using your hands just gets you in a fight you’ll never win. It has to come from a good seat, relaxing warm up, and lots and lots of repetition. And even then, you may have bad days. Hang in there! I use a loose ring Myler bit, legal for dressage. There is no magic bullet, unfortunately. Best wishes!:slight_smile:

[QUOTE=ACMEeventing;8620094]
So, you became a new member to ask about a problem but actually just wanted to pitch a new bit.

I guess that’s fairly resourceful. Probably against forum rules. But resourceful.[/QUOTE]

How rude! A new member and you welcome him/her with this. Shame on you.

OP personally I dislike double jointed bits because the joints are now crashing around across the bars of the mouth. The distance between the two lower jaw bones is narrow and the majority of plates/lozenges/peanuts are too wide.

More work is needed on improving your transition into halt. If the horse is not balanced as it goes into halt, the transition out will be unbalanced.

1 Like

[QUOTE=Tnavas;8623193]
How rude! A new member and you welcome him/her with this. Shame on you.[/QUOTE]

Not really rude and ACMEeventing is right as Cazzabazza’s post is a copy/paste of NS’s sales pitch.

Your horse can’t be bracing against the bit (pulling- hard contact), above the bit (head in the air - avoiding contact) and behind the bit (ducking - nose to chest - avoiding contact) at the same time. You need to pick one!

[QUOTE=netg;8619791]
So is he bracing or is he ducking, because your posts contradict each other?[/QUOTE]

Either way, IMO this is a training issue… perhaps for rider and horse! It’s also a strength issue. I’d go buy a new bit last, not first.

It takes some timing and feel to create a horse who always pushes into contact. You need to keep a soft feel and be ready to harden or soften your arm as the horse offers you the uphill-ness and feel that you want (and that he can physically produce). So I don’t let go if a horse braces or ducks. I keep the same contact and follow him (and add some leg) until he moves his head around “experimentally” and comes to a place that’s more to my liking. Then I relax my whole arm and hand and make that comfortable for him. In addition, I never close my hand first, or without leg. If I want to pick up the bit, I always close my leg first. This can be on just one side, but the rule is the same: Leg first, hand second.

And on the training thing for your particular problem: The idea is that you are always going forward, even when you “step down” into a lower gait. Or you think about riding the halt as if you want to march up to the place where the horse will plant his front feet and have his hind end active until the last step. In these cases, the horse is continuing to hold his core, even when the physics of the situation (and his body architecture) invites him to lean down on his front pair of legs.

It takes strength on the horse’s part, too.

After the horse has stopped and you wish to go again is a hard time to fix the problem. That’s because the horse already (probably) relaxed his core and dropped his ribs down between his shoulder blades. So when you ask him to go again, he has to (first) lift up his core and them move off, pushing from a hind leg that steps forward first, over his topline and up to the bit. But it’s more likely that he doesn’t engage his core first. Rather, he leaves it low when he steps forward. And that means he has to lift his head or lean on your hand so that he doesn’t fall on his nose as his downhill body moves forward.

I hope the biomechanics make sense.

To me, the time/place to work on the horse staying with the contact (and really, staying engaged in his core) is while he’s going forward. You can do transitions within gaits— I can’t tell you how much time I spend asking a horse to “trot bigger/trot smaller” (without losing his balance or rhythm) on a circle. That’s all just building the core strenghth he’ll need to do the bigger task of fully stopping and starting that heavy, high center of gravity body he has.

There is a time and a place to try a different bit for a horse. If a horse really chews incessantly on a bit (and isn’t particularly oral in other parts of his life or doesn’t have a Princess Complex), I’ll grant that the bit is hurting him some how. That’s when you get a different bit. But if the horse is happy with the bit but not just not using his body the way you want, I’d ask about training (lack of education about how to relate to the bit) and strength first.

I hope this helps rather than confuses!

Is it just me or does this sound like a badly disguised marketing pitch? I have no problem with companies using boards like this to promote their products but they should first establish a relationship with people here and then provide value to members by answering questions posed by others and offering relevant information.

Jumping in with what looks like a marketing pitch is poor form.

If that’s not what happening here and the OP meant to put quotation marks around all the NS info and just happened to contact NS right after joining COTH to post a question. I apologize.