Chronic abscesses in PPID horses?

[Demerara_Stables]

I know PPID predisposes horses to hoof abscesses. Do they ever become “chronic” as in, one right after the other?

21 yo mare diagnosed with PPID right about a year ago. On 1 prascend daily. She’s had maybe 3? 4? abscesses in her life. She had one in September (dry season for us) and now another, one in each front foot. The September one took almost two weeks to resolve but she was a trooper and pretty stoic through the ordeal. We’re on day 3 with this one. I know it’s not right after the last one, but this frequency is unlike her. She has an excellent farrier, very well balanced feet, and shod with EasyCare Versas up front, barefoot behind.

Anything else I should be looking at? Am I being paranoid?

[fivestrideline]

Just here to commiserate. One of the PPID horses in the barn (has been on prascend for ages) has been blowing abscesses for WEEKS this year. One after another, and apparently there’s evidence of more tracks/deep abscesses still in there on X-ray. Poor guy will be dead lame, better for a day or two, and dead lame again. I haven’t seen him do this since I got here.
He’s also in (nail on) composites, but it is MUDDY here. He isn’t mine, but the owner is diligent in cleaning his feet and doing whatever the vet says (soaking/packing/wrapping/etc).

The vet did some sort of fancy method of getting antibiotics to stay in the foot (idk), but that’s where we are at with him.

[kaya842]

Xray if you haven’t. Otherwise it sounds like you’re doing your best. I’m not sure where you’re located but here it’s been unseasonably warm and very, very wet which has just been terrible for hoof health.

[JB]

Here to reiterate the xray suggestion. At this point you need to know if it’s a keratoma, a fracture somewhere, a foreign object, etc, or just that he’s a PPID horse and it’s abscess season

It may also be a sign her diet needs dialing in, as this may be the result of subclinical laminitis

[cayuse]

Just going to second JB in that the diet may need to be looked at and maybe check insulin levels.

[wtxhunter]

Came here to say adjusting my horses diet really helped with the abscesses. She would get them almost monthly. Now knock on wood hasn’t had one in a year plus. Blood tested negative. But my naturopath vet and two chirps told me she was showing pre PPID signs.

[Demerara_Stables]

So I did X-ray the left front in September and it was perfect. No rotation, nothing funny going on. This is now in the RF. FWIW, my healthy 3yo blew two abscesses in a week in August, so maybe the weather was weird?

Her insulin levels were not great over the summer but the vet and I agreed to alter the diet a bit and manage with exercise. She’s a good weight right now. Her bloodwork probably could use a recheck.

This was yesterday:

PXL_20241218_193635832

[Demerara_Stables]

Definitely warmer than usual for December. We did have a good storm last weekend, it’s just drying up now, so I’m sure that’s where this came from.

[Demerara_Stables]

Can you share what the changes were? When she was diagnosed last year I moved her to a low NSC pellet (I think it’s 8 or 10%), but her hay stayed the same (1/2-3/4 grass 3x daily depending on her workload and 1/2 alfalfa at night check).

[barnesthenoble]

Did you do the full set of hoof x-rays, or just laterals? I’d be interested in a skyline, dp, and oblique to see if there’s any changes, chips, etc.

It could very well be chronic; it could very well be diet. What does she eat, including supplements? The 3yo also having abscesses this year could be another indication of diet. Has your hay been tested? Are you supplementing Cu/Zn? With the Versas, are you using the plugs? What, if any, antimicrobials are being used under them?

[Demerara_Stables]

I don’t remember the views we did, and we didn’t have baseline rads to see if there were any changes.

Both horses are on different diets, and I have another horse on the same diet as the 21yo and another on the same diet as the 3yo - no abscesses in either of them. Diet is balanced per FeedXL.

I do have plugs, my farrier puts DIM under them but I honestly didn’t know if there’s artimud or not. She’s had this set up for 4 years though (including ridiculous amounts of rain the last two winters) so it’s highly unlikely that it’s the shoes.

[barnesthenoble]

@Demerara_Stables

Diet is balanced per FeedXL.

FeedXL is an ok tool…but can miss problems. And just because the diets are balanced, doesn’t mean they’re providing enough for that horse.

Have you had your hay tested, or are you using FeedXL data based on hay type?

ETA: re: the shoes, the VGGs have only been out since 2022? What did she have on before? Eponas? Either way I agree that the shoes aren’t likely causing the problem (I’m just a bit inland from you, and have experienced the same nasty winters using the same shoes, without abscesses thankfully!), but an antimicrobial hoof clay could help with overall hoof health to prevent creating any gunky spots that could turn into access points for an abscess. I think it’s more likely the PPID + diet.

[Demerara_Stables]

She has always had the versas or the predecessor. Hers are nail-ons not glue ons

My hay is not tested but I have been using the same hay from the same supplier for 8 years. So other than the change to a low NSC feed a year ago, everything else has been the same

[barnesthenoble]

Ah. The nails are an even bigger reason to want an antimicrobial, IMO

A lot can change in terms of the nutritional value from cutting to cutting, let alone year to year, even with the same fields and supplier. Especially with how weather patterns and water in the west have varied over the last 8 years, there have likely been huge fluctuations in nutritional value. Unless she’s eating pounds+ of it and only a tiny bit of hay, the low NSC of the feed isn’t going to do anything to counteract the hay if it’s high in sugars/starches.

Especially since her insulin levels weren’t good, I would not be feeding this horse untested hay, but YMMV.

[RedHorses]

My vets all want to recheck ACTH any time my horse’s heaves blow up, or he has abscesses that won’t heal/keep returning. PPID can reduce the horse’s ability to fight infection and to heal.

My horse has been blowing abscesses in his hind feet for the last year after a round of cellulitis and antibiotics last fall. He’s had at least one foot wrapped for well over 100 days this year. He has a hole in the LH now that’s been there since August, without infection since mid October, and I drew blood when he jerked his foot when I was checking the depth the week before last. I’m going to have the foot xrayed at our upcoming herd health visit. I shouldn’t be able to draw blood that easily at this point.

[Demerara_Stables]

Oh jeez that all sounds awful I’m so sorry. Makes what I’m dealing with sound like a walk in the park.

[grayarabians]

IMHO I would look into increasing the Prascend dose.
Are you a member of the ECIR group?
Many horses need hight doses.
Mine is one.
FWIW we recently switched from 10 mg/day of compounded Pergolide to injectable Cabergoline.
The higher dose of CP then the Cabergoline made a world of difference.
Knock wood - abscesses.
Horrible ones
Also know the seasonal rise months ~ May - December - PPID can be at it’s worse.
I know this all too well.

[wtxhunter]

Of course! I worked with a nutritionist with a phd to balance our Texas coastal unlimited plus 1 flake alfalfa am and pm. Unsure if that was what changed the abscesses tbh. I also started scrubbing her legs with the orange Palmolive soap 3x a week. She would never take a lame step but I never had a horse that was so prone to them in my life. All the research I did pointed to diet. I know detoxing is a polarizing topic on here. But I do think some of what the naturopath vet did helped with her absorption of nutrients. Jingles.