Chronically ill horse- dramatic vent

[AppendixQHLover]

If his quality of life is not the best and he doesn’t want to come out of the stall he is saying mom I can’t do this anymore.

I have seen so many owner’s that have kept their dog, cat, horse etc around even when the quality of life no longer exists to them. They live in the here and now. So at this moment he is so sore that walking out of stall is a difficult thing…the quality of life.

Personally I don’t believe in chemo for animals. I used to work at a vet hospital and would see people put thousands of dollars in chemo and they might have them another year maybe if they were lucky.

[IvyHall]

[QUOTE=AppendixQHLover;7946484]
If his quality of life is not the best and he doesn’t want to come out of the stall he is saying mom I can’t do this anymore.

I have seen so many owner’s that have kept their dog, cat, horse etc around even when the quality of life no longer exists to them. They live in the here and now. So at this moment he is so sore that walking out of stall is a difficult thing…the quality of life.

Personally I don’t believe in chemo for animals. I used to work at a vet hospital and would see people put thousands of dollars in chemo and they might have them another year maybe if they were lucky.[/QUOTE]

I don’t disagree with you about quality of life! But to clarify, there was exactly ONE day (12/30/2014) where he didn’t want to walk out of his stall (and I got all dramatic and sad about it… its been a long year). His pastern dermatitis had become quite infected and he was just sore. 12/30 was also the day the vet got out to see him and he began treatment. By the next day he was happily walking out of his stall and here he is on 1/3/15 enjoying himself in the indoor. http://youtu.be/my7zzwBnifc

Now his legs are completely healed. We had a lesson yesterday and he jumped around some little stuff (1.10m) like a super star! He is an absolutely amazing beast!

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edited to add

When I made the decision to do chemo I knew there would people, probably lots of people, who disagreed with my decision. Given his type of lymphoma, TCRLBC cutaneous, and the high possibility of long term remission (even permanent remission) I believe it was the right move (I had massive amounts of information available to me and access to the best vets and oncologists in the world). Sadly, it didn’t work out as thought, but that was always a possibility and one I was well aware of.

[Calamber]

This reminds me of the time my beagle was hit by a car and dislocated his hip. He had the hip popped back in place but unfortunately they put him on Valium which caused hin to cry unceasingly and he could not stand. By 4 am I was on the phone with the vet (after about 12 hours of this) and said I was going to bring him in to be euthanized, and voila! He stood up and said “I’m not done yet!” That horse looks happy to be alive. Congratulations!

[AppendixQHLover]

@IvyHall;7946577

By the next day he was happily walking out of his stall and here he is on 1/3/15 enjoying himself in the indoor. http://youtu.be/my7zzwBnifc

Now his legs are completely healed. We had a lesson yesterday and he jumped around some little stuff (1.10m) like a super star! He is an absolutely amazing beast!

Well that is good. My boy needed knee chips removed and I did a lot of research on it and the recovery. My decision was to do a very consertative rehab. He had the 3 months of stall rest and a couple of months of just walking under saddle. He went back into full work in January and is stronger than ever. This month he will start jumping again. I know overly consertative but for me it was the right decision. He is a very fancy dressage horse but we will be doing some cross training.

[cloudyandcallie]

While I do not disagree about putting a horse down if a person does not want (or have) the money to take care of him or if the person does not want (or have) the time to invest in the care of a sick horse, I think that horses do have a concept of life and dead. I’ve seen horses who were willing to go through pain in order to live and I’ve seen horses give up. I’ve also read right here on Coth about both. So if the horse is feeling good on some days, and feeling bad on some days, it’s up to the horse and the owner to decide when and if to Euth. In my own personal experience, after Callie was given a vet’s dex shot and nearly lost her 2 front hooves, 8 months later after a roller coaster ride to recover, she lay down in her stall one day. I sat there holding her head while the farrier came to the door and I asked if it was time. Gerald said no, that Callie would recover, and I was just to continue to “bute her up” everyday. Love Gerald. He was of course right. Callie was a brave tough ottb mare who got up later that day and grew hooves over the year that Gerald said it would take after he had resectioned her hooves. I also once boarded where the BO’s old mare collapsed one day, in her mid-20s, and I held her up myself and asked the BO if she should call the vet to Euth the mare. She didn’t and the mare, old and not taken care of, lived to be 29 yoa and died in my arms one day.

So it’s up to each individual horse and individual owner to decide quality of life. Pain meds, vet care, farrier care, etc., all add up to time and expense. I’m not talking about letting a horse lie there and suffer for days without care and with a vet/farrier recommending Euthing, I’m talking about an ill horse have a bad day, or days, and then feeling better and gradually getting better, not worse. I used to let Callie during recovery decide which days she wanted to go out in her paddock. She was in a barn with the small runs attached to stalls, but on her good days as she recovered, she’d want to go out into the big paddock to enjoy life.

So while the OP may find that her horse is getting better or worse, it is up to her to decide with the advice of her vet/farrier,whether or not to Euth.

[AKB]

I used to not believe in chemo for horses. Then, my daughter’s well loved horse developed a slowly progressive lymphoma 3 years ago. He was on chemo about every 3 weeks for several months. After the second dose of chemo, he was back to his normal, spunky, self. He has been completely healthy for 3 years. For him, chemo was the right decision.

Based on all of the photos,Ivy has done an amazing job with Cal. He looks healthy and happy. When he is not healthy and happy, or his needs are more than she can provide, I am sure she will make the right decision to euthanize.

[OverandOnward]

They do find ways to tell us they want to keep on, and sometimes ways to be healthy enough to hang on to the life they want.

Once my horse was at the vet’s overnight, working through a colic. The vet tech hand-walking him at about 1 a.m. explained it to him: Either poop and get to go home, or don’t poop and go to surgery. She let him look inside the surgical room and voila! he pooped. He came home the next morning in good health.

[oliverreed]

Glad he is doing better!

[HungarianHippo]

Love the suggestion to use a hospice mentality from here on out. OP I hope you can develop with your vet or a trusted clear-eyed friend what objective guidelines you will use to make the decision. We will never be ready to let go of something we deeply love.

Making the decision to euth is horribly difficult. Between the day you make the call to the vet and the day of the scheduled euth, you will second guess yourself 10 times a day and cry your eyes out every day and in general you will suffer. From my experience it’s better to ask for a quick appointment-- and then spend those 2-3 days spoiling him absolutely rotten. Every treat he loves, as much as he wants. From his perspective it will be the best few days of his life. Which fuels your second guessing, but you just have to be strong and remind yourself it is the right decision.

I really do know what pain you’re in-- just went through this last month–and I’m so sorry for you.

[IvyHall]

UPDATE!

So exactly 12 days after I started this thread, on 1/11/15, I took him to a horse show and just did some little 1.10m classes. He jumped clear and fast in all three and took home the champion ribbon.

In the time since then his fitness has improved a great deal and we are back schooling over some bigger jumps. He feels as good as ever and his legs are about 90%, the vet is very pleased with his progress.

And this is why I have yet to give up on this horse (despite at times getting overwhelmed and sad), bc every time we hit a bump in the road he has always comes back as good as ever.

thanks again for all the support!

[OverandOnward]

That is wonderful news! Congratulations!

This is a rollercoaster - and it sounds as if this is sometimes one of extremes. He’s champion - he’s on a long layup - sounds like it’s one or the other, etc. & so on, every year.

Keep the idea of hospice mentality and your limits on future treatment in the back of your mind, regardless. Even for a champion, if he continues to be on and off in the same way. The prognosis for the future is bigger than anything in the past - bad or good.

I hope he’s turned the corner and you and he are destined for more great things to come, from now on!