Chuck wagon horse to pleasure driving?

[rugbygirl]

Just curious if anyone here has experience with ex chuckwagon horse, and what your thoughts might be on using one for pleasure driving. Horse in question was apparently on the chuck wagon circuit for 7 seasons, retired without a wreck or other known trauma, and has been a very reliable riding horse (low hunter jumper) for the past six years.

Anything you’d want to be especially careful with or look for when trying him out in long lines? Any “known” issues with this type of training /sport (like, I don’t know, “never use kick straps on a chuck wagon horse” or something…)

Would you qualify a chuck wagon horse as an “experienced driving horse” such that he might be suitable for beginner drivers, maybe with some pro training, or would you be inclined to want to start him over?

Mostly curious. This is a horse I own, and am very happy with his current role in life, but kind of wondering if he might be a good option to learn driving with, instead of looking for a lease/purchase of another experienced horse.

[red_mares]

Since you’ve been riding the horse, and know that he’s actually broke, i.e. steers, knows WTC, I’d find a cart & hook him. Probably would long-line him first, a couple times.

But I’m a bit less risk averse than most here.

Since it sounds like you don’t have much experience, I might try and locate someone who knows how to put harness on etc., and had driven a horse a few times. I would find a confined area, preferably an indoor, the first couple times I drove him.

If I had a horse that had spent 7 years/season driving, I would not be looking for another horse. Heck, I had a horse who’d spent 7 years under saddle that became my driving horse. I had horse, cart & harness; let’s go.:lol: Amish guy broke her, not a problem. Found out later that she’d been hell on wheels (literally) as a youngster.

[rugbygirl]

I have experience! I took a whole weekend clinic LOL. My young horse is in with a pro right now, and I’m going to be getting lessons at her place, I have miles to learn! She has some very experienced horses (actually ponies, which I am waaaaaaay too excited about, they are adorable and fancy) that she wants to use with me too, so I’m OK in the short term, and I’ll definitely consult her as we go for what types of things we’re looking for in my young horse to determine “readiness.”

This older horse though, he has me wondering if he might be the one to teach ME. I don’t know very much about chuckwagon training, although when I got him, everything about him was "professional. " He was clearly all about having a job, not about being a pet. So I suspect his training was probably consistent…in whatever chuckwagon horses have to know!

ETA… I DO have a cart… It is currently awaiting my husband’s welding skills (I’ve decided I’m too pregnant to weld) because the shafts get too narrow at the front for my young horse. The trainer who has her doesn’t need it yet. It WOULD fit the old boy without modifications…hmm. I’m probably too pregnant to be considering this right now…

[Drive_NJ]

I’d do some more research on chuckwagon racing before deciding he’s a beginning driver trainer. He could be, but from the images that come up about chuckwagon races, looks like their job is to hold a little still while a chuckwagon is loaded than blast off racing as a team of 4 racing around a track then set up the camp. but I’m not sure about all the levels and such. Here’s a youtube on the sport on a lower than Calgary level,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZXDTQnrdYQ

This is Calgary heats
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZXDTQnrdYQ

I’m not sure that horse is going to have skills for driving calmly and patiently while you are learning. The horse you want to learn from should teach you how to signal a turn, transition up and down when asked correctly etc.

This guy MIGHT be able to move over to pleasure driving, but his driving has likely been done at speed which could come back and bite you in a pinch without retraining to your new expectations.

Doing a totally different job, he is likely to not make associations to his racing days.

That said OTT Standardbreds are able to change their job why not him. I’d just assume he still needs to learn what the new job entails as much as the new horse does.

[rugbygirl]

He was on the Pro circuit, which is the Calgary level. It’s likely he raced there, but I don’t have any proof of that.

The chuckwagon horses have a reputation for being VERY bold. Or crazy. Depending on who you talk to. They tend to use OTTBs, and I’ve been told me than one that TBs who are a little “too brave” in training make good chuck wagon horses. All that said, when you go to the barns at Calgary, you don’t see a bunch of fire breathing dragons. You see a lot of really athletic horses who appear eager to do the job. I don’t know much about the day to day training though, and I do wonder if CW horses are driven singly, much or at all.

I should probably consult some drivers, was kind of curious if anyone here had experience with these horses.

[CHT]

The other consideration is that he seems to always want a buddy in turn out or in the barn…maybe if you drive him while someone rode beside him he would think he was part of a team again? Driving would be a good step down career for the old man though if he could do it!

[rugbygirl]

Too bad he and the young horse couldn’t fit onto a team vehicle…

That would be a sight to see…

[CHT]

The old man could fit On the cart, with the young one pulling…I could see him liking that…

[gothedistance]

DriveNJ said: “I’m not sure that horse is going to have skills for driving calmly and patiently while you are learning. The horse you want to learn from should teach you how to signal a turn, transition up and down when asked correctly etc…This guy MIGHT be able to move over to pleasure driving, but his driving has likely been done at speed which could come back and bite you in a pinch without retraining to your new expectations. …Doing a totally different job, he is likely to not make associations to his racing days.”

I agree. This isn’t the horse I’d select for a novice driver. His training is all racing, and that racing is at a high level. Keep in mind that when we train our driving horses/ponies (unless training for CDE) we never go above a trot.

I would pass on this horse. The last thing I’d want to have happen is for him to think you want to race, and then take off as his training dictated. It could be a very BAD thing, and I wouldn’t want to risk my neck for a horse that had such a long career in galloping full bore in harness for extended periods of time.

Standardbreds trot or pace in harness, albeit faster than most of us go during a pleasure drive. But they are rateable. I have trained a number of OTTB to drive, but the trick is they have never been taught to run in harness. Trot is the only acceptable fast gait, and that’s what they know and comply with when the harness is put on. A veteran racing chuckwagon horse? Nope. I would pass on him with extreme prejudice.

[rugbygirl]

Lucky for him, he’s a very good low H/J horse. I was kind of curious what sort of training CW horses have…at the very least, we would know he’s not afraid of carts!

[Flypony]

Who had him when he was a wagon horse?

[rugbygirl]

I don’t know. He ended up with a lady who has a bunch of ex chuck wagon horses, she’s got good connections in h/J and a strong history with OTTBs, so some of the drivers will send her the ones that appeal to that crowd. My guy fit the bill, 16.2, pretty and a nice mover. I’m not sure she got him straight from the driver though, she’s kind of a word of mouth service.

[Doctracy]

Why not have the trainer just try him for a couple of weeks? She should be able to determine if he’s suitable fairly quickly.

[Christa_P]

Is he a TB and did he race. If so he has already learned there are different expectations under saddle. Give him a slow restart with ground driving and make sure he understands what you want. Also, I remember watching a documentary (might have been on TV during the Calgary Stampede) and IIRC the chuckwagon horses spend a lot of time just trotting and doing slower work for fitness. Once trained, they are only really asked for speed at the competitions.

[rugbygirl]

That’s probably the easiest solution DocTracy, but for now she’s got the young horse. I have high hopes, but realistic expectations for young horse. If she flunks out, maybe old boy could be a back up.

He was never raced on the flat, but he was purpose bred for racing in KY and I assume he went to the track. His history is a little cloudy, as far as I know his chuck wagon experience was in the Northern States and Canada. He used to have a bit of a problem standing to be mounted, but he got over that, and he does get pretty “up” in show situations…but I owned him as a beginner jumping rider and besides his snappy bascule and tendency to try very hard with a bad distance, he was not super challenging to ride. I came off him a lot, and he was always very good about standing still while I sorted myself out.

He wasn’t ever the most fun trail horse, which is one trait that prevents me from just wanting to give it a go. Independent thinker, but not necessarily sensible in the human sense. He always seemed to lack the outdoor sense of a good trail horse, and was always much more comfortable in an arena. He’s mellowed a lot though, and I haven’t been his primary rider for a few years now.

[CHT]

The two horses can do Tandem! Young one can do the actual pulling that way and old man can just look pretty and guide the way!

[Calamber]

Ack! No, do not put two inexperienced horses together, or rather, one experienced in running in harness and the other never been in harness. You want someone to ask who would know, contact Muffy Seaton.

http://www.muffyseaton.com/#!

[rugbygirl]

Thanks, I will send a query!

Note, CHT and I are not seriously considering putting these two horses together (besides the obvious problem of both of them being completely green to driving)…CHT knows both of them too. The idea of them doing anything together is funny to think about because it is so absurd. The young horse is a big, opinionated, short backed, short necked pinto draft cross, the old guy is an elegant hunter type who probably has two feet on her from nose to tail and is equally opinionated. They have trouble sharing a paddock…

[Christa_P]

[QUOTE=rugbygirl;8348789]
Thanks, I will send a query!

Note, CHT and I are not seriously considering putting these two horses together (besides the obvious problem of both of them being completely green to driving)…CHT knows both of them too. The idea of them doing anything together is funny to think about because it is so absurd. The young horse is a big, opinionated, short backed, short necked pinto draft cross, the old guy is an elegant hunter type who probably has two feet on her from nose to tail and is equally opinionated. They have trouble sharing a paddock…[/QUOTE]

Actually, from a looks and historical perspective this would have been a classic sporting tandem. The heavier wheel horse pulled the carriage and passengers to keep the fancy hunt horse fresh.

**this does not mean I think you should try it, just the it would be correct in a historical sense.

[rugbygirl]

THAT is funny. :lol:

I just look at all the lovely matched teams in shows and at CDE’s, and these two would just…no. Plus, the TB would probably be in front, and the young horse would be getting all vocal on the wheel, and he WOULD kick her. He was around when she was foaled, and he is absolutely a crotchety old uncle type…