I watched TV cbc/ch 9, Chuckwagon racing wagons changed big to smaller, four hand horses, collars as like farmer draft horse as not same like new harness parts. Four teams limit in racing. Have you seen them somewhere or watch TV?
Chuckwagons were faster than horsemen on horses.
What kind bred of horses? Thoroughbred or Quarter or both half of TB and QT
They are tbs that are too slow for reuglar racing. The wagons beat the outriders because they must - an outrider shall not pass his wagon nor shall he be considered late, large penalties occur. Can’t remember the distance behind now, been too long since I hung with the wagon boys.
I been missing Rangeland Derby, but most of the old timers are gone now - only one left that I know is Kelly Sutherland…the rest, well, most are the children and grandchildren of those I knew and associated with; about quit watching when Tommy Glass and Doyle Mullaney retired. SIGH those were the days…even galloped outriding horses when I got the chance. Rode in a wagon a time or two as well…that is a real rush!!
Most of the harness now used is new, made to look old - most of the guys use biothane, leather went the way of the dodo bird a long time ago as the style of harness used became harder and harder to find…no one made new leather stuff, so they found someone to make biothane. .
Here is the offical site: Half Mile of Hell
Thank you for information about chuckwagon, I watched TV several years ago, I remembered old big chuchwagon, now they are smaller, more light and old racing instead of now present. Are they dangerous?
Thank you, again
They changed the wagon weight in the late 60’s and in the 80’s moved the stove rack to under the wagon so it is about 30" shorter as well now. Again it was a matter of adapting to resources that were no longer available - wagon wheels don’t live forever, and all the wheels are now the same on every wagon and they all weigh roughly the same give or take 50-100 pounds and most are just barely above the legal low limit. The old wagons were a horror to load, needed winched into the trailer, these you pull the pole and push them, no where near the weight. The variance between any twoi wagons now is mosly cosmetic not like it was years ago when there was disparity in size and weights. Everthing is regulated from bridle bits to wagon wheels, so lots of changes.
Yes, wagon racing is dangerous - I knew men killed racing: George Normand, Ron Glass, Richard Cosgrave, and there were others. Doyle Mullaney got hurt bad about three years ago and retired. Jason Glass got dragged bad last year, so, trust me, it is dangerous…and even a training run is a hell of an adrenalin rush.
Tonight, the finals of the Rangeland Derby, guess I will watch that anyway since I can see it at my leisure rather than that of CBC Bold. This time it is on regular network. It still seems odd not to see the ‘old’ guys…old in quotes since most of them and I are age contemporaries…
Going to don my flame suit here…
I will give the disclaimer that like ANY horse discipline, there are ethical and unethical people. The impression I was given of chuckwagon racing as an outlet for TBs wasn’t good…many of the horses were not just too slow for TB racing, but were too unsound. I remember hearing the discussion after a purchaser came looking for TBs on-track - a number of trainers refused to sell them their rejects. Apparently when a horse goes down during training or racing, the results are often disastrous for all involved. Like I said, though…there are ethical and unethical people in every discipline…the good trainers see their horses as an investment and care for them as such; the less ethical see them as a disposable commodity and something easily replaced.
Dee
I don’t actually think you said anything of substance here. Good and bad in all. But these days of big prize money they need good horses and take good care of them. The days of lame old old track rejects are mostly gone. I went to Alberta two years ago to a racehorse auction of Kentuckybreds who had been purchased and bought up here for resale. I went for a snoop round the rest of the training barn and found a lovely, lovely big TB. Quite different in type from all the others. If I had been a spec buyer I’d have snapped him up for eventing. He was Gorgeous. Turned out he would be sold to the chuckwaggon people as a heel horse. I nearly cried!!! Never forgot him and the name they gave me didn’t come up through pedigree query, so I’ll never know who he was. I had visions of Rolex.
[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;3358845]
I don’t actually think you said anything of substance here. Good and bad in all. But these days of big prize money they need good horses and take good care of them. The days of lame old old track rejects are mostly gone. I went to Alberta two years ago to a racehorse auction of Kentuckybreds who had been purchased and bought up here for resale. I went for a snoop round the rest of the training barn and found a lovely, lovely big TB. Quite different in type from all the others. If I had been a spec buyer I’d have snapped him up for eventing. He was Gorgeous. Turned out he would be sold to the chuckwaggon people as a heel horse. I nearly cried!!! Never forgot him and the name they gave me didn’t come up through pedigree query, so I’ll never know who he was. I had visions of Rolex.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps something more substantial and satisfactory would be the series on chuckwagon racing that aired within the last couple of years on Canadian TV - Half Mile of Hell (http://ctvmedia.ca/oln/releases/release.asp?id=9152&yyyy=2006). (I was also being deliberately vague and obtuse as I don’t wish the thread to degrade into argument; I’m more interested in good discussion). The profiles were interesting, but the lasting impression left by the show indicated that many horses are tested out before a successful team is established, and that few made the cut. As a horseman, I have difficulty understanding the methodology of acquiring large numbers of horses to gain a few good ones - it doesn’t sound cost efficient or logical to me. The conditioning methods were interesting to say the least - several horses were tied to a bar on the back of a pickup, and then galloped down a straightaway.
I’d be very happy if what you saw was the norm, as the buyer who visited my local track seemed to be anything but discerning. And no, he wasn’t a slaughter buyer operating under the guise of a chuckwagon buyer - his credentials seemed quite legit.
Dee
Funnily enough - at this same training barn that was how they exercised their TB’s - tied to a bar beside a truck! Looked very weird to us!
I was born and raised in Calgary; rode and played with the Bensmiller kids and it was a short ride down centre st. to Victoria park and the big barns, dust, heat, jangling harnesses, old drunks and beautiful, restless horses…I can still remember the noise and the smells.
[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;3359108]
Funnily enough - at this same training barn that was how they exercised their TB’s - tied to a bar beside a truck! Looked very weird to us![/QUOTE]
Sometimes I wonder if training methods vary by region…a couple of people I know ponied out west, though this is probably 30 years ago. Can’t remember if it was Assiniboia Downs or not…anyhow, they would pony THREE horses at the same time! I have a hard enough time imagining doing one tough horse, but THREE?! Wow. You’d need a pony horse who was a total saint for that!
Dee
I’m not going to comment on chuck wagon racing except to say I don’t see any reason why not to accept that just as in all equestrian disciplines and activities there’ll be good and bad.
But this sentence struck me as the most absurd.
[QUOTE=DeeThbd;3358957]
As a horseman, I have difficulty understanding the methodology of acquiring large numbers of horses to gain a few good ones - it doesn’t sound cost efficient or logical to me. [/QUOTE]
EVERY horseman that ever existed knows that to find a great horse, you pass by a lot that aren’t ever going to make it.
When it comes to driving multiples there’s not a half decent driver in the world that is good and responsible that hasn’t had to buy more horses than he wants in order to get a genuine pair or team that will work together well and compliment each other.
There are however a heck of a lot of “also runs” that some folks drive as multiples who never in a month of Sundays will work well together.
Its a bit like a marriage, some work and some stick together for the hell of it and because they don’t know any different!
Have to agree with Thomas, you go thru a number of horses, before you find ones that match well enough mentally, physically(stride sizes), to make the Team or Pair. Matching in gaits is about number two in our list. Good sensible brain is number three. First would be soundness. If reasons one and two aren’t there, then we don’t continue looking at this horse. This doesn’t even take in color matching.
We find the wash-out rate about 50%. It is not always that the horse won’t drive, but the qualities needed to suit us, are lacking. We have found over the years that trying to settle for “almost” in a Multiples horse doesn’t work. They need to be suitable in ALL our demands, to make the Team. We get by on the color, by only looking at bay horses! Any shade of bay from bright red to black or seal-bay, is fine with us. Little or no white is best. We might make an exception for a white sock or two, for the PERFECT horse. We swore off white trim when we had our first driving animals, the yellow learner horses. High white on six legs of the Pair, with wide white blazes, white manes and tails. They needed two baths each, before any outing, even if they went to bed clean at the show!!
I think a chuckwagon Team would not need to be as rigorously chosen for brains as our pleasure/CDE horses, but certainly you don’t hitch idiots either. Drivers will have different criteria to make successful Chuckwagon racing Team horses. Some horses will NEVER be suitable to drive, no matter how you train or work with them. We count on the sensible brains in our horses when things get tight. Different demands than speed on a track. Certainly those Chuckwagon Teams would leave ours in the dirt, though after 5 miles or so, we might pass them!!
So the chuckwagon drivers could easily go thru quite a few horses, to find the few that suit their needs. Doesn’t mean the unused horse is a bad one, just unsuitable for THEIR uses. Our unsuitable horses get sold to other careers, owners are REALLY happy with them. They just don’t fit OUR needs in the Team. Some drive well, yet size or other reasons prevent them “making” the Team.
Many are looked at, few are chosen. If it was EASY everyone could do it!!
If you think ponying 3 horses is amazing you should see the polo ponies out for a exercise jog :eek:
When I first arrived out west I was thrilled to immerse myself in cowboy culture. I went to rodeos and to chuck wagon races and my view of what you “could” do with a horse was changed forever!
A “string” of horse takes on a new meaning when you see about 15 race fit, “high strung” TB tied to a 50 foot long rope all quietly munching on the hay in front of them. And yes kids ponying the same horses a couple at a time. And at the end of the day seeing the same bunch of horses quietly walk up the ramp into those huge horse trailers with no fuss (some without a handler!) and no leg protection (gasp!!;))
I saw horses coming of the trailers with briddle and saddles on ready to spend the day husling cows out of the brush. Oh the list goes on and on, some stuff I still don’t agree with, other stuff I realize works perfectly fine.
We often get so set in our ways we forget(or just plain don’t know) that other people do it differently for perfectly good reason and that the horses being increadibly addaptable usually goes along with it with very little fuss.
I remember back in Ontario an old timer that had trained his belgian 4 in hands to get into his (large) cube van. The floor of the van was about 3 feet of the ground and those big horses calmly walked up to it, put their front feet in and with a stong heave got themselves up there. There were all about 17 hands so no biggy but still!! When asked why he did that the old guy said: “Well how else would I get them to the fair?”
I think Chuckwagon drivers are western and we are English, know what I mean. Compare western and english drivers are difflerent or formal something at horse show or sport racing. Or something like racing harness . :eek:
But we learn how to be better horsemanship drivers, need to know how to drive single, pairs or four hand, etc.
Chuckwagon horses ARE chosen for their minds and ability to learn quickly - the last thing you want out there is some wingnut that can explode without warning - you get the same end result as said wingnut on a work or pleasure hitch, that being disaster but compounded by speed. It also takes a lot of fooling around to get a prospect working well enough in harness to assess his place, if any, in the team. Some horses are born leaders, some wheelers but some will only work in either near or off side, and only with a certain horse. The mass buying also helps make up several different teams - you have one for fast track, mud, and some even have separate teams for inside and outside barrel positions and for short tracks…a typical load to any of the bigger shows is 40+ head and that includes two sets of outriding horses, someitmes more. Many ‘failures’ as a wagon horse do fine for outriding and ponying so earn their keep in one way or another. Some ‘faulures’ even go on to work in harness for a different driver - the beginning drivers, the non-pros, these not under either wagon association…some failures just cant cut the main circuit and some, well, not everyone can get along with every horse, or sometimes a horse just doesnt fit with what you have and will not work well with that group, but does fine with someone else’s horses.
These guys don’t just go buy willy nilly - they know what they are after as to bloodlines, size, conformation: you don’t want something 17.2 and weedy on a wagon and that is completely useless as an outriding horse, no matter how fast, calm or sound hie is. They dont LIKE tall horses, but want something around 16hh, shorter if possible, good bone, and speed and stamina over a distance, no sprinters need apply.
To whomever made the oddball comment about western drivers not knowing anything, blow it out your earhole if you are serious, if you are not, please clarify that ridiculous comment. Region means nothing, we have just as many competitive SHOW style drivers here as anywhere else. And don’t start deigrating harness racing either - for the most part, we are good horsemen, but like any other discipline, we do have our bad apples, dingbats and assorted no-goods…show me ANY discipline that is pure as driven snow, and I am going to call you a flat out liar.
[QUOTE=sk_pacer;3357354]
They are tbs that are too slow for reuglar racing. [/QUOTE]
Not always. Hanuman Highway, an Irish-bred TB, finished 6th in the 1998 Kentucky Derby, then went on to be a chuckwagon racer with Jason Glass’s team.
I only spoke in generalities for the sake of brevity and to lessen confusion. Also remember Flad has an oldster in his barn that won the Alberta Derby (I think, not too much up on TB stakes) many years ago…
[QUOTE=Thomas_1;3359415]
I’m not going to comment on chuck wagon racing except to say I don’t see any reason why not to accept that just as in all equestrian disciplines and activities there’ll be good and bad.
But this sentence struck me as the most absurd.
EVERY horseman that ever existed knows that to find a great horse, you pass by a lot that aren’t ever going to make it.
When it comes to driving multiples there’s not a half decent driver in the world that is good and responsible that hasn’t had to buy more horses than he wants in order to get a genuine pair or team that will work together well and compliment each other.
There are however a heck of a lot of “also runs” that some folks drive as multiples who never in a month of Sundays will work well together.
Its a bit like a marriage, some work and some stick together for the hell of it and because they don’t know any different![/QUOTE]
Thomas, darling…don’t EVER insult me by calling me absurd again. I really expected better from you. I may lack experience in your particular discipline, but I am no naive first-time horse owner expecting every horse to poop butterflies and prance over rainbows.
There is a vast difference between trying and buying different prospects as ANY horseman might do, compared with what I witnessed - a buyer buying TRUCKLOADS to use and discard those who don’t make the cut.
One would hope that, as in marriage, choosing a horse would be something more discerning than something with the appropriate body parts (in the case of chuckwagon racing, four legs and a whinny, and in human terms, well…the appropriate parts for one’s requirements as they may be). The particular buyer I saw walked shedrow to shedrow with a handful of money, looked in the stall of the prospective horse, and handed over the appropriate sum. Pretty much like choosing a spouse saying “Oooh! A female! I’ll marry you!”
THAT to me is absurd; in my very humble opinion, if one is going to choose a horse, one chooses the one with the most promise, not the one that simply can look through a bridle.
Dee
SK Pacer, I was curious about one thing…watching the outriders, a lot of them were dressed and riding like exercise riders - are they strictly associated with chuckwagon racing, or are they often from the racing industry?
One thing I DO like is seeing TBs harness-broke…I know that someone (War Admiral?) who posts on here has an OTTB who drives. I tried long-lining my older gelding when I first got him, and well…the results were explosive to say the least! :lol:
Dee
Out riders
The outriders are part of the Chuckwagon family for the most part.
Younger drivers and sons and grandsons of the drivers.
It is a very special thing to do what they do some of them will ride every heat
