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Clay for arena base?

Doesn’t Georgia clay crack in a drought too? Just thinking out loud… After almost no rain for a year we have some pretty nice cracks going on out in the field…

And if you ride on it when it rains heavily won’t you dig up the clay/won’t it be slippery? I don’t like work horses in a deep sand arena, so I have to think you would hit the base at times…

Not an expert, but just wondering about it out-loud hoping someone else (who is an expert) will chime in.

However, I think you can get away with stuff in your indoor that you can’t in your outdoor, as you control the moisture content.

It sucks for indoors too though. See my previous comments about dead footing. And slick when watered. And it packs in their feet.
Did I mention it sucks for indoors too?

[QUOTE=MeghanDACVA;6618902]
Ditto, ditto. Your clay is your SUBbase. And yes, it should very very very compacted. If you can scuff it, it ain’t compacted. IWhen you put your actual base on that, it will sink into the clay. You might want to consider re-wetting it, recompacting it and then putting a layer of fabric down. THEN putting down a real base. By base I mean 6-9" of compacted screenings/blue stone/crushed limestone/whatever it is called in your area. 6" is the bare bone minimum!!
To do the base, put down about half of it, wet it, compact it (not a sheeps foot, but regular roller compacter), put the other half down, wet it, compact it.
Other important “hint” is your crown or grade. You need the water to drain somewhere. So you either need it to crown it or have it graded to in such a way the water will flow off of the surface. This needs to be done to your clay sub-base as well as to your actual base.
And put french drains in around the outside now.

How do I know this? I spent almost 2 yrs researching my dream arena. And am glad I did. And the french drains are something we had to add despite everything.

Did I spend a lot more that I had planned? Hell yes. Was it worth it? Hell yes.

BTW, we have clay like you would not believe. Notice I am in OK. In the summer our ground (clay) is harder than kiln fired pottery!! We didn’t need to put fabric down because of this but we still needed a BASE over the clay SUBbase.

Another hint. Leave your SUBbase sit and be sure the water drains as it should. Ie no low spots, etc. BEFORE you spend the $$ on your base, and then your footing. Lesson learned there (very long story that is boring).

When it is all said and done, the dump trucks that bring your footing should be able to drive on your BASE, turn on it, etc and not damage it. If they do, the base is not done right.

The base should be as hard as asphalt (I learned that concrete is too hard).

Spend your money on what goes UNDER your footing. You can replace footing, even though it is not cheap. Having to replace the base and sub-base is a nightmare and expensive doesn’t even begin to describe the cost involved.[/QUOTE]

:yes::yes:

I am no dirt expert, but as they were excavating, moving clay and packing, I finger tested the stuff. SOME areas had a “good sticky clay” and sometimes, I could squash a handful, then crush it and it would come apart. There’s like a dirt, or silt or sand in there- completely Clay Colored, but when I could crush the ball, I though, ugh, this won’t pack.

Sometimes the contractor said they found a soft spot and dug it out, and started to pull good clay from a hill.
I lost alot of big trees on the hill towards my neighbor.

I think he was just going for the good clay underneath. My neighbor otoh, jumped my fence to complain! So I think my arena site is OK.

I have been meticulous in the past Indoor rings to not overwater ( clay base). One had Calcium dust control… and I wonder if thats the secret.
I think it made the clay-base ROCK hard, and the top footing did not need water for about year. But that was a tough clay that didn’t grow anything.
Not sure if that will work in my new location.

How do you stop bluestone from mixing to your top layer?
I am paranoid the “base” doesn’t stay BASED, and I get rocks into my GGT. !

[QUOTE=17Rider;6624781]
How do you stop bluestone from mixing to your top layer?
I am paranoid the “base” doesn’t stay BASED, and I get rocks into my GGT. ![/QUOTE]

I know they have their own separation system http://www.ottosport.de/public/en/produkte/lochmatte.html (or the OTTO footing at KHP does, which is basically GGT right?). http://www.ottosport.de/public/en/produkte/footing.html I saw a demo and it is a grid deal to keep the sand separate from the base. I recall thinking it was a wee bit spendy, but I forget the quote.

Couldn’t you do geotextile fabric, which is still spendy, but I’m guessing not as much as the OTTO type system?

I have 70’ X 200’ GA clay base/sub-base

and it is great! I have ~ 4" of M10 as top footing and it drains super (nice crown too). No puddles, no mixing of base with footing…I can ride the day after a heavy rain. Ideally I should have a few more inches of M10 but haven’t been riding much past couple years (breeding Hanoverians). I do drag it frequently with a chain harrow. Below is a picture taken last winter, 7 years after construction.

Arena.jpg

We removed all topsoil and had the site down to clay which was compacted.
Then we did 6" of 3" pit run. This was compacted.
Then we did 3" of 20mm gravel. Compacted to road hardness and laser levelled.
Then 2" of fine gravel (5-10mm I think). Compacted to concrete like hardness. You should be able to lay a roadway on top of this.
Footing goes on top of all that.
If it’s not compacted with a fine gravel to road harness under your footing, you will lose footing into it and can get stones coming up into your footing.

winter,
thanks for the detail.
But did you really do that much rock for an Indoor arena?

Yes, this is for indoor. The guy doing ours is a real arena expert, he does outdoors and racetracks and golf courses too. I think how much you do depends on how good your clay is. We had good clay, some places they do upwards of 18" of gravel I guess. I do live in a very cold area as well so there is some problem with freeze-thaw. I might be off by an inch or two in my numbers, but it was something close to that. Now that I think about it, it may have been 4" of pit run. I’d have to check my notes.

We are putting travel light footing on top.

side topic–base&footing on top of cement?

I was going to start a new topic, but it seems to tie in here. Anyone ever consider putting a base, or even sub-base+base, over an existing cement floor in an indoor arena-sized building? I’ve seen some places for sale with a large cement floored building and wondered whether it would be a reasonable thing to do if the ceiling height was high enough.

[QUOTE=TrotTrotPumpkn;6624999]
I know they have their own separation system http://www.ottosport.de/public/en/produkte/lochmatte.html (or the OTTO footing at KHP does, which is basically GGT right?). http://www.ottosport.de/public/en/produkte/footing.html I saw a demo and it is a grid deal to keep the sand separate from the base. I recall thinking it was a wee bit spendy, but I forget the quote.

Couldn’t you do geotextile fabric, which is still spendy, but I’m guessing not as much as the OTTO type system?[/QUOTE]

I am strongly leaning towards the mat system!
The study done on concussion is interesting, no??
Packing layers of rock or using concrete as a firm, level base…
but what about the horses?
How many have some type of concussive- arthritic issues… maybe the GGT mats or OTTO are better than rock hard bases?

[QUOTE=17Rider;6631380]
I am strongly leaning towards the mat system!
The study done on concussion is interesting, no??
Packing layers of rock or using concrete as a firm, level base…
but what about the horses?
How many have some type of concussive- arthritic issues… maybe the GGT mats or OTTO are better than rock hard bases?[/QUOTE]

If you do it you will have to report back!!