Hi, just wondering, what do you think about x-rays…It’ s the third horse I want to buy and all of them have some issues…and payed 1000 dollars every time. Is it so difficult to have a clean x rays horse? the last one a yearling which have some irregularity on his stifle bone. the vet told me it could become a bone cyst…or not…what is your degree of tollerance when buying a horse? thank you
Weirdness in a stifle isn’t uncommon in a yearling, particularly a WB (what breed is that one?). How familiar is your vet with evaluating “irregularities” on stifles? Is that yearling worth it otherwise? If so, consider a 2nd opinion on the rad?
Tolerance entirely depends on age and location and what exactly is found. What we don’t know is of all the yearlings (for example) who are never xrayed, how many would have some irregularity on the stifle, and how many of them would never, ever have a problem there? That’s what makes some of these things impossible to quantify - no real stats to weigh things against.
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Clean xrays don’t exist, IMO. There is no such thing as a perfect horse. A PPE isn’t a pass/fail, it provides information to tell you what may or may not be going on with a horse and what may or may not go on in the future. It’s up to you to determine what type of imperfections or “issues” you are willing to cope with, based on your intended use of the horse.
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That’s a tough one. It depends on what you find and what you want to do with the horse. For example I just recently (two weeks ago) vetted a horse I’m leasing for a year with option to purchase. We found moderate OA in both hocks. He’s a 9 year old heavy boned belgian warmblood. He was otherwise sound and fine in the PPE. I spoke to a second vet (my best friend, so handy) about it and spoke to another pro about it to gather opinions. We ultimately decided that while we were uncomfortable with the fact that it was both hocks and well past the point of being mild, we believed for what I want to do with the horse we could maintain him. So now we have a year to find out how true that is.
He was advertised as a horse capable of doing 1.30m+ jumpers. He’s plenty scopey. If that was my intended goal with him I probably would have said no because of the hocks. My intended goal is a 3 ring horse at the 3’ height and probably more focused on equitation and derbies. I show once a month at best, not every weekend. Given all of that, everyone we spoke to thought that it would be something we could manage.
I had a horse ten years ago that I vetted specifically to do 3’6+ jumpers with at the time who flexed poorly in his hocks but x-rayed ok in them. But then an xray of a front foot showed a coffin bone crack with a bone chip and we walked away. That was not something we could have managed. He was only 6.
There really is no such thing as a clean PPE except on young horses pulled from fields that haven’t done anything stupid to themselves yet. They could then turn around and injure themselves a month later (hooray insurance!) or ya know turn out to be mentally nuts (I had one of those too). Horses are always a risk, it’s a personal decision between you, your vet and your other trusted resources as to what risks you think can manage and live with to do the activity you’re looking to do with the horse.
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If you really like a young horse and the vet says there is an “irregularity”, send the x-rays to a radiologist. All they do is look at x-rays and have a far better point of reference as to what might actually be “irregular”. I vetted a very large, 2 1/2 year old hannoverian, vet said he had navicular, radiologist said it was growth remodeling. I bought him and he’s 16 now and never had any trouble with the navicular region…tons of other injuries but nothing a PPE would have prevented. 
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^^^^^^^^^^
Every horse has weird stuff, irregularities etc. Basically, they have evidence of whatever life they’ve lived so far + how they’re naturally built. Evaluate the horse in front of you, its soundness at the level of work its doing currently (admittedly challenging if looking at yearlings! But yearlings are play-doh. Everything is shifting and changing.) X-rays are one piece of the puzzle and up for interpretation. Two vets can look at the same x-rays and come to different conclusions about what something means and the impact it may have.
If looking at super young horses, I personally would seek out a vet who had a lot of experience evaluating young, growing horses, and perhaps ask for a second opinion if one vet flags something as odd.
Good luck!
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IMO, there is not a great correlation between what xrays show, and the future soundness of a horse. If you have a specific issue that you want to investigate with an xray, super, that is helpful. But I have seen far too many horses who have “things” going on in xrays, sometimes really scary things, who remain sound and functional indefinately. And other horses who are complete “crocks”, who show few problems on xray. Take your pick which one you want to own. Your new horse will have issues and complications. He may develop new issues and complications while in your care and ownership which may or may not be related to his previous issues and complications. Each has to be handled as they come up, and eventually the horse will be retired from whatever sport you have purchased him for, to become a pet (if he’s lucky). You can not xray every single bone and joint in a horse’s body. Many important health and soundness problems are not shown by xrays.
IMO, when you are buying a horse, there are simply no guarantees. Of anything. Ever. No guarantees that the horse will work out for you. No guarantees that it will remain sound and alive for an acceptable amount of time. No guarantees that it will be the horse you want it to be for you. Paying more money for it, and getting more opinions from others still does not guarantee you anything. You can xray everything every time you see a horse you like, pay the vet bill for that, find whatever the xrays show, be given advice from the vet (what vet is going to give you a positive “thumbs up” in this sue-happy environment???) and you make your decision. Some vets NEVER will be encouraging on the purchase of ANY horse, ever- some have a famous reputation for this. You can keep on finding new horses to xray, and paying the bills for that if you like. Eventually, you must “take the plunge” and buy one, if you want to own one. And live with the consequences.
Never pay more money for a horse than you can afford to flush down the toilet. Because that may well be the outcome of the purchase. Rich people can afford to flush more money down the toilet than regular people can, and do so, regularly. This is a fact of life. Also, the purchase price of a horse may not be a good indicator of it’s actual value to you. Very successful horses may not cost a lot of money when you buy them. Paying more money for a horse does not mean that it is a better horse for you. Keep in mind that racehorse owners often buy horses through the “claiming box”. They look at the horse from a distance. They find out it’s name. They look up it’s pedigree. They look at it’s past performance. They can watch it move as it goes by. They may not look at the horse closely, they may NOT inspect the horse, or have a vet inspect the horse, or take xrays. If they want to buy the horse, they pay for it at the race office, in secret, in advance of it’s race. They own it when the starting gate doors open, though any purse money goes to it’s past owner. They may purchase insurance in case the horse does not finish the race. They own the horse, warts and all, and pick it up after it is unsaddled and ready to head back to it’s new barn and it’s new owners, at which time they start to investigate whatever issues, injuries or problems the horse may or may not have. And this is a legitimate and popular method of buying a race horse. Purchase prices range from $2500 to $100,000 or so. No litigation afterwards. Personally, I think that this method should be used at horse shows too. Would cure those $500,000 hunters being purchased and dropped into the local Children’s Hunter division for a sure win. Keeps people honest and competition fair.
Good luck, and happy shopping! Each horse you buy in your lifetime will teach you something.
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Yup. There is always something. Clean xrays indeed do not exist.
A PPE will always turn up something too. Always. No horse is 100% perfect. It’s up to you to decide if it is something that is going to deter you from buying the horse.
I would place more weight on how the horse moves and travels, and performs (if competing). That usually is a better indication of how the horse is doing. A vet is always going to find something on flexions or xrays, but it may not be causing the horse any problems.
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I’m with the crowd on this one- if you look hard enough, perfectly clean x-rays do not exist. If you PPE’s are running $1000, you are likely doing quite a few x-rays, so you are bound to find something.
I bought my gelding at 5 with grade 3 changes in both hocks. Some people might not have done that. But, I do the hunters (not very big jumps, not a lot of tight turns), and I’m ok with maintenance (joint injections and regular pentosan injections). My vet at the time thought that it may cause problems in the far future, but it’s hard to tell. The horse was the right price, and had a great brain. I bought him and haven’t looked back. His hocks do not bother him 2 years in, who knows about the future.
I would likely NOT buy a horse with stifle issues on x-rays. I have also walked away from horses with bad back x-rays that indicate kissing spine.
If in doubt, get a second vet’s opinion, preferably someone who specializing in diagnostic imaging (radiologist).
I too am with the crowd on this one. Think of it this way. Have you ever pulled a muscle? Sprained an ankle? Maybe even broken a bone? These things seem so trivial to humans because we learn to cope and live with an injury, that typically after it’s healing time is just a distant memory. The same is very true for a horse. There are always exceptions, with both horses and humans, but the vast majority have had a bobble of some sort some way along the road, and you’d never even know unless you looked inside. It’s about what you’re willing to take on as a risk. As others have said, the bigger picture, how the horse is doing now in it’s job, is the most important thing to help you form a decision.
I vote for a second opinion by a specialist or a radiologist.
Right now the Fasig Tipton yearling sale is going on in Saratoga. Those vets are experts reading yearling x-rays.
The 2 week long yealing sale starts approx 9/9 in Lexington, Ky. You might contact the people in the “Repository” and ask for the names of several vets who look at a lot of x-rays. Then contact them AFTER the sale to see if they will give you a second opinion. (Do not call during the sal; vets are crazy busy then.)
He is a good vet and the tearling is really nice. He s a quarter horse. I send to another vet , really good oe and he also told me that wasn t good.
He has a small cyst in the medial condylw of stifle
Yes, I sent to two vets, one of them is really the top and both told me that he s stifle has a bone cyst and cartilaginous defect and edema(we also did ultrasound) they both told me that the prognosi was reserved for a career in sport
Absolutely true! If there is edema, the horse is already responding negatively to the cyst. I wouldn’t go there.
IMHO, it’s a different conclusion if the horse is older, performing in sport, and shows no clinical symptoms (lameness, edema, etc.)
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