[QUOTE=Bluey;8102850]
Properly used spurs are a refinement of a leg aid.
You need a steady, educated leg to wear spurs, thus the “earning your spurs”.[/QUOTE]
I know what spurs are used for…and they are not to browbeat a horse into dropping his head so low his nose is dragging in the dirt.
I didn’t watch the whole video. Don’t need to, really.
I have Clinton’s trailer loading DVD and it was SO helpful. Loved it. He explains it well and it’s easy for me to understand. It’s worked great for my horses.
I don’t care for the “over-bridled” look that some reiners seem to have nowadays. However, I do routinely ride with a reining trainer in my area. He’s the type of guy that can hop on a horse and have it doing flying lead changes in under 5 minutes. And guess what? He’s in their mouth the whole time he’s on them. I sent my Red to him for 3 weeks this spring and wowza did I get a nice horse back! So soft, and in my hands, I love it! I’m amazed at how much he accomplished in 3 weeks.
He always says things to me that make sense. One of which: “If you are already in their mouth, you aren’t going to hurt them when you pick up on them.” From his standpoint, it’s about “messing with” your horse and see how they respond and see what they do. If I already have contact on their mouth, and I further pick them up to ask for something else, I’m not going to hurt them or terrorize them or whatever else you want to call it. No, I’m not going to be in their mouth 100% of the time, but it’s nice to know that I could be and they’d be okay with it.
I always talk to my trainer about being afraid to “mess up” my horse. And he always tells me, so what? If you mess them up, then just fix it. He’s admitting to making mistakes with horses before but that’s how you learn. It’s refreshing to hear someone say “Go ahead and try it and if you make a mistake, so what, just fix it.” rather than getting shamed on for doing something wrong.
Anyway, my little off-story aside:
If you don’t like Clinton Anderson, then don’t watch him. Period.
What progress are you making by trying to create a hate thread on the internet?
[QUOTE=Foxglove;8102630]
Fash44 and others I have a question on the extreme flexing at the poll you refer to —I don’t want to hurt my horse but I do like him to go softly on a loose rein --so here’s my question on flexing --When W (my horse WD-4D) becomes excited or pulls on the bit (he must not do this because I have a shoulder replacement and cannot hold more than 10 pounds --continual tugging would be the end of me!) --anyway, when W becomes excited or tugs on his bit, I do a steady pull to one side until he “gives me his face” or relaxes the tension in the rein. Then I immediately release. This may be as slight as an inch or two --a kind of “W, let go of the bit,” reminder or a pull to where his nose is touching my boot --OR BEYOND --now I’m getting to the question --W is a cooking junkie. Because I won’t let him graze in a bit when we hunt (many do) I feed him cookies. I take a cookie out of the saddle pack sandwich case, and give it to him by him opening his mouth and I drop it in. Over the years, he’s learned that when I open the saddle pack (it’s behind my leg) he’s getting a cookie and he will stand with his mouth hanging open with his head past my knee almost touching his own hip. Is this going to cause him to have neck problems? I don’t MAKE him do it --he just does it because he wants a cookie. I’ve seen him in the pasture scratch the back of his own hock by holding up his leg and reaching back that far -so it isn’t exactly unnatural --but after what you’ve written, maybe I should discourage him from reaching around so far -FYI he can do it on both sides and touch his head to his belly, too from between his front legs. And (umm, embarrassed here) he’s trained to kneel for me to mount and lie down in case we are ever attacked I can take cover behind him (one too many Western movies as a child). When things are dull on the hunt field, he’s a real show pony.
So what do you think? Is he over flexing or just one of those agile cow ponies that do stuff like that? Should I be careful with him more than I am?
Foxglove[/QUOTE]
Why is he getting overexcited? This is what needs to be addressed, so you don’t get into a situation where you have to get into a pulling match with him. Once you know what triggers his excitement, you can work on desensitizing him to that trigger. Read up a bit on overflexion, of course taking things with a grain of salt and considering your sources. But the horse’s head is NOT meant to be in that overflexed-at-the-poll position frequently or for long periods of time.
[QUOTE=beau159;8103208]
If you don’t like Clinton Anderson, then don’t watch him. Period.
What progress are you making by trying to create a hate thread on the internet?[/QUOTE]
Like beau159 said it is all a difference of opinion. I deleted my posts because i was getting bashed for saying i like a trainer. If you dont like him the FINE. But you are not going to change my opinion. Especially by calling me a troll with the first post i have ever made on here. I know i am not going to change your opinion as well. Thats why I didn’t argue back. Everyone is ready for some big debate. Its not going to happen with me. I joined this group so i could have some “horsey” people to talk to. Not to argue back and forth and call each other names.
The emperor has no clothes.
[QUOTE=Turn_N_Burn32;8103465]
Like beau159 said it is all a difference of opinion. I deleted my posts because i was getting bashed for saying i like a trainer. If you dont like him the FINE. But you are not going to change my opinion. Especially by calling me a troll with the first post i have ever made on here. I know i am not going to change your opinion as well. Thats why I didn’t argue back. Everyone is ready for some big debate. Its not going to happen with me. I joined this group so i could have some “horsey” people to talk to. Not to argue back and forth and call each other names.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately that is the way some people on this bb act. No filter, no manners. If you really want to be turned on by a pack of rabid dogs, say something like “I enjoy western pleasure.” Oops, that was kind of unmannerly for me. OK, I’ll rephrase it - Some very opinionated posters refuse to see some topics as multi-faceted, and will argue a topic black/white until the cows come home.
Responding to Flash44 -about why W becomes excited and perhaps desensitizing him instead of quietly bending him a bit --This is only an issue, and a really slight one on the hunt field. W has been hunting for 10 years --he knows the game, the horn and the hounds. At checks, he will stand quietly, sometimes seeming to be asleep. But once the hounds give cry -his knows his job is to keep me in view (but not pass the Master). But sometimes there’s a reason we cannot follow the chase --usually it’s another member having trouble with a horse or a broken piece of equipment and W and I are asked to give a hand. At those moments, he WANTS to follow the hounds --it’s his JOB -and I’ve asked him not to. He will give a tug at the bit until I gently remind him that we are not going to chase that particular fox. The only other time he becomes strong is early in the season when we are cubbing. He hasn’t hunted all summer, and he becomes a bit excited. Again, the asking him to bend, or soften, stops the pulling immediately. I love his enthusiasm --it’s his pulling on my shoulder that isn’t a good thing. I don’t know that it would be possible to desensitize him to the hunt --or if I’d want to. He’s given a cue to come off the bit, and he does. Then we are back to riding on our loose rein. My question was more about worry that I’m going to hurt him by encouraging him to reach for cookies –
Foxglove
Foxglove
You are sooooooo right. Thank you for the post.
I meant your first one, the long one.
[QUOTE=Foxglove;8104055]
Responding to Flash44 -about why W becomes excited and perhaps desensitizing him instead of quietly bending him a bit --This is only an issue, and a really slight one on the hunt field. W has been hunting for 10 years --he knows the game, the horn and the hounds. At checks, he will stand quietly, sometimes seeming to be asleep. But once the hounds give cry -his knows his job is to keep me in view (but not pass the Master). But sometimes there’s a reason we cannot follow the chase --usually it’s another member having trouble with a horse or a broken piece of equipment and W and I are asked to give a hand. At those moments, he WANTS to follow the hounds --it’s his JOB -and I’ve asked him not to. He will give a tug at the bit until I gently remind him that we are not going to chase that particular fox. The only other time he becomes strong is early in the season when we are cubbing. He hasn’t hunted all summer, and he becomes a bit excited. Again, the asking him to bend, or soften, stops the pulling immediately. I love his enthusiasm --it’s his pulling on my shoulder that isn’t a good thing. I don’t know that it would be possible to desensitize him to the hunt --or if I’d want to. He’s given a cue to come off the bit, and he does. Then we are back to riding on our loose rein. My question was more about worry that I’m going to hurt him by encouraging him to reach for cookies –
Foxglove[/QUOTE]
OK, thought you were having a problem with your shoulder and also worried about his neck! I guess it depends on how often he reaches for the cookies, and how long he holds his neck in that position. Both of you sound sensible enough not to cause any damage, lol.
Flash44 --did as suggested and looked at pix of overfextion – he’s not doing that --I was a bit worried when someone said asking them to do that could cause permanent neck damage. I think what I’m asking is more like “carrot stretches” since he doesn’t hold the position too long --so I guess he’s not going to get arthritis in his neck or anything. He’s a good horse and a bit of a ham --when he wants a cookie or attention, he starts his routine of holding his mouth open, touching his belly, kneeling, shaking hands, whatever he can think of to get that cookie. He’s fun.
Thank you for taking the time to answer.
Foxglove
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