Clinton Anderson Opinion

I’m always looking for good educational YouTube channels and was wondering about your opinions on Clinton Anderson. Do you like his method or not? Do like some things and not others? I haven’t seen too much of his groundwork (he seems pretty knowledgeable) but I didn’t like the riding I saw.

I found this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocp3qwGoJ3k

Good? Bad?
To me the horse seems very overbent in the neck. When he’s just standing preparing for the next move he keeps asking (but not pulling) the horse to bring its head back in. Also what’s with the flapping legs? His transitions from fast canter to slow canter just seem totally weird to me. He does like a haunches in to slow down.

I don’t know much about reining or western in general, but a lot about horses in general, so please let me know if I’m on the right track here. Would his videos be good to use?

I don’t care for him. He seems like a bully to the horses and incredibly fond of hitting them. I watched a trailer loading demo of his years ago - horse was terrified of the trailer. Horse was no less terrified of the trailer by the end, but more terrified of Clinton, so he went in.

On a side note, one of my geldings is highly suspicious of anyone using CA groundwork methods. Even if I’m not paying attention to them, he’s always got one ear (at least) on them when we’re riding. LOL

I am not a fan of his style of training. I think he has the same basic methods as most other NH style training but its his psychology that I do not like. I think he works on dominance and submission instead of trust and respect. He gets results but not the kind of results I want.

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8077088]
He gets results but not the kind of results I want.[/QUOTE]

Ditto.

QUOTE-“I’m always looking for good educational YouTube channels and was wondering about your opinions on Clinton Anderson. Do you like his method or not?”

Not! For all the reasons mentioned above.

I’m pretty sure that there was a long discussion here in the past about Clinton Anderson. You might try searching the Western forum to see if you can find it.

I went to one of CA’s weekend shows years ago. Somebody gave me free tickets. Like so many of this type of clinician, you have to sift through and take what might be useful and leave the rest behind.

It’s almost always interesting and educational to see what “experts” think and do - even if all you take away is the conviction that you won’t ever try that approach yourself. :lol:

I found the other discussion. It was about a specific problem but again most people were saying no to CA in general. Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I think I may watch some videos if I have time and see if there are any little good tid bits and just leave the rest.

Any opinions on that video? Most reining horses I see are hyperflexed, which is bad for any horse, but was that a good ride? I know he won but to me the riding style was off.

[QUOTE=HicksteadFan;8077043]
I’m always looking for good educational YouTube channels and was wondering about your opinions on Clinton Anderson. Do you like his method or not? Do like some things and not others? I haven’t seen too much of his groundwork (he seems pretty knowledgeable) but I didn’t like the riding I saw.

I found this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocp3qwGoJ3k

Good? Bad?
To me the horse seems very overbent in the neck. When he’s just standing preparing for the next move he keeps asking (but not pulling) the horse to bring its head back in. Also what’s with the flapping legs? His transitions from fast canter to slow canter just seem totally weird to me. He does like a haunches in to slow down.

I don’t know much about reining or western in general, but a lot about horses in general, so please let me know if I’m on the right track here. Would his videos be good to use?[/QUOTE]

I’m not a fan of CA nor of modern day reining in general. There is so much EGO in the sport. I guess that’s true with most equine sports though. It’s all about whose horse can run the fastest, jump the highest, lope the slowest, slide the farthest, etc etc etc. The older I get the less patience i have with this kind of thing. I like riding endeavors that produce a sound, fit, supple, happy horse that can be useful and/or enjoyable to his rider. I don’t see reining really fitting that bill. To me these horses always look like they’ve been trained with a heavy hand and worked hard. They do not look particularly happy in their jobs, and nothing about running full tilt on its forehand with its face cranked to its chest, sliding halfway across the arena on its hocks, or spinning round and round as fast as it can go is doing anything but progressing that horse to a life of unsoundness. It’s a sport that is tough on the horses’ bodies and minds, IMO.

As for CA himself, I never liked him from the first time I stumbled across his show while channel surfing one day years ago. He was talking about tying one, and was basically walking up to this horse and slapping it in the face to get it to freak and pull back. The horse wasn’t terribly inclined to do so, so CA just kept at it until he finally freaked the horse out. Terrible. He seems like an egomaniac to me, but apparently a lot of people like him.

Side note. The hooting and hollering has gotten absurd in reining. For the spins and slides, okay. They’re the money moments, I can see giving a whistle or cheer to show appreciation. But screaming and hollering when the horse swaps a lead or does a transition between fast and slow? That’s just obnoxious, LOL.

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Everything he works with looks absolutely terrified. I sometimes think people get fascinated with the accent and forget about the “training.” He is featured heavily in Horse and Rider mag. Just say no.

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No way. I disagree with much of what he does - he’s harsh with them, his results really aren’t much to speak of, and the whole thing is a money-making deal. Sure, there are probably a couple of decent tidbits. But the BO subscribes to his crap and her horses are a collective disaster. Every other word out of her mouth when she’s riding her confused and off-balance 2-y/os is “according to CA” or “Well, CA says…”
Fundamentally, as well, I disagree with anything that has a set “method” with the idea of “every horse should be able to do this after this many days, and then progress onto this on this day and that on that day.” Every horse is different. People need to learn real horsemanship and how to understand a horse, not just blindly watch dvds and go week by week on what some clinician says, regardless of where their horse really is, both physically and mentally.

I’d highly recommend Warwick Schiller. He knows what he’s doing with a horse, has good feel, uses logic and understanding, and gives you the tools you need to go and learn and work with your horse at your horse’s pace - not at his preset pace. No “method”, just straight up horsemanship.
Warwick’s channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/WarwickSchiller

If I had one word to sum him up, I’d choose rough.

If I got a second word, I’d choose arrogant.

If I was able to add in a phrase, I’d say, “Values results WAY over horse’s comfort.”

ETA: It just occurred to me that that description fits at least half the trainers in the world. Oh well.

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I strongly second Warwick Schiller. He creates horses through trust and respect not dominance, and I just posted a comparison video on my blog the other day

[QUOTE=RopeRideSpinSlide;8078255]

I’d highly recommend Warwick Schiller. He knows what he’s doing with a horse, has good feel, uses logic and understanding, and gives you the tools you need to go and learn and work with your horse at your horse’s pace - not at his preset pace. No “method”, just straight up horsemanship.
Warwick’s channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/WarwickSchiller[/QUOTE]

Yup. Love Warwick Schiller. I’ve watched all his youtube videos and facebook stuff and have the anxious Andalusian DVD set. I’ve tried lots of the groundwork on my TB. She didn’t care about much but its a good way to practice in case I get one that does.

I watched a few videos of CA (didn’t find anything good and decided to completely stop when he yelled at a man to chase and smack his horse for no reason then called him “the biggest girl I’ve ever seen” when he wasn’t aggressive enough. In that case I think every horseman should aspire to be called a girl by him :lol:). It seems like he’s trying to do basically the same things as Warwick Schiller, but more aggressive, with no release and too fast.

I just wanted to give a bit of insight on this - after watching the video, most of what he does is pretty typical of reiners. Asking for the head prior to maneuvers brings the horse’s attention back on the rider, the flapping legs is just a reining thing (my trainer also taught me to do that, calls it chicken-winging, though I highly doubt that’s an official term:lol: Just gives a lighter and repetitive cue rather than a squeeze or poke. Personally I’ve found that it dulls the ones I ride and train, but that’s just me; many different reining horses seem to be trained in very different ways to respond differently to a myriad of cues), and the transitions are very normal in reining. Lots of riders/trainers push the haunches in to transition; I believe it’s meant to gain more control and also gets the horse’s body properly bent for the smaller circle.

With that said, that it’s mostly normal - that horse is quite overbent, particularly in the turnarounds and runarounds (turning the end of the arena after or before a rundown). There’s no good reason to have a horse that overbent; the same collection can be achieved without the horse’s chin on his chest. I can see that kind of bend as a quick correction, but for more than a second or two, there’s no need.

From what I have seen of all his TV shows, his horses that he works with do not respect him, they fear him.
I used to watch them for morbid curiosity.

(this is going to be long, sorry)

Clinton Anderson is a teacher --of horses, of people --but bottom line he has a method or lesson he has faith in, and tries to educate other people in what has worked for him.

Keeping that in mind, remember that all teachers and their methods are not acceptable nor do they work for all students. Further, every teacher has good and bad days, good and bad lessons, and again, what works for one student will not work for another. What is acceptable “discipline” to one parent is “abusive” to another.

I find both CA and John Lyons videos helpful. I’m a teacher (high school Lit and psychology). I like how CA (and JL) “write their lesson plans” in a logical method where each step builds on the other. And me PERSONALLY, I like the kind of horse that is the result of me using their methods. I like that CA’s lesson plans are about 30 min long (my attention span) and suggest working with the horse about an hour at a time (daily) --maybe a couple of times a day, but minimum hour a day with 20 min review, 20 min new stuff, and 20 min doing something the horse does well. He makes it clear that the once a week rider will not find success as quickly as someone who works with a horse daily --just like school, he said. I like that. And I like that the DVDs show common problems one will run into, and mistakes the handler/rider makes, and mistakes the horse will possibly make.

I like that CA never calls a horse bad or says the horse has a bad attitude. He makes sense to me.

I have never seen him in person, and base ALL my knowledge of him on a few DVDs that I followed along with, and then went down and practices on what he calls “a fat lazy gelding.” I don’t know how his methods would work on an OTTB, although I did train two of them ground manners using his methods quite successfully (desensitizing, staying out of my personal space, loading, backing in hand, that sort of thing --and that went well).

As I said, no teacher or trainer is beyond reproach as there are too many people who simply hold different opinions on how a lesson should be taught. I teach high school seniors. I expect hands to be raised before they speak in class. Other teachers use a more “open forum” insisting that raising hands is demeaning and indicates that the teacher is the superior (wisdom) in the classroom where ideas are all equal in value. Do my students learn less? I see it as respect where other teachers see it as forced submission.

Same with horses. I foxhunt --that can be rather violent at times with mad gallops over hills, through woods, jumping things never meant to be jumped (like hounds). Then we stop. And wait. MY HORSE stands absolutely still. He never touches the bit --as a matter of fact, I HUNT on a loose rein in a snaffle bit. My horse moves off leg and seat and pretty much has his head free. To others in the hunt -this is a sign my horse is poorly trained and I am a poor rider. I’ve been told that I should keep my horse on the bit and count my strides between fences and let him know when to jump --can’t do it, I don’t know that stuff myself. He jumps when he thinks it’s the right moment to do so and I stay out of his way. One rider asked if I didn’t mind that I couldn’t feel my horse’s mouth and have a conversation with him through my hands --um, no. She asked how I keep him from running into the horse ahead since I don’t use my reins -well, he slows when I post slower, or drop my weight into my stirrups. All of this is from CA videos. And at most checks or when I feel he’s not focused, we do the bending and releasing. It’s subtle, but we do it. Keeps him limber, light in the bridle, and remembering that I’m riding.

And to those who prefer hot horses yanking at the bits and prancing and dancing during checks --and doing some rearing and bucking now and then --I admire their ability to stay on. He did act like that when I started him, but training cured it–I don’t think my horse fears me --I do think he respects me. And before you decide I don’t ride well --I’m usually asked to ride in the Master’s pocket (right beside him) and when people need a lead over a tricky fence, it’s often my horse and me who are asked to do so -

Different people want differently trained horses. I want a quiet mount who thinks for himself. I trained my horse to do that. People who want a horse on the bit, a handful of energy, should steer clear of CA --that’s not what he’s trying to do.

Oh, and there is a fine line between fear and respect. A horse that is afraid can’t learn (neither can a student who is afraid of a teacher). But without respect, a teacher can’t teach. That CA expects (demands?) his horses respect to me is a basic element of the teaching (training) process.

Foxglove

[QUOTE=HicksteadFan;8077043]
I’m always looking for good educational YouTube channels and was wondering about your opinions on Clinton Anderson. Do you like his method or not? Do like some things and not others? I haven’t seen too much of his groundwork (he seems pretty knowledgeable) but I didn’t like the riding I saw.

I found this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocp3qwGoJ3k

Good? Bad?
To me the horse seems very overbent in the neck. When he’s just standing preparing for the next move he keeps asking (but not pulling) the horse to bring its head back in. Also what’s with the flapping legs? His transitions from fast canter to slow canter just seem totally weird to me. He does like a haunches in to slow down.

I don’t know much about reining or western in general, but a lot about horses in general, so please let me know if I’m on the right track here. Would his videos be good to use?[/QUOTE]

What is it exactly that you trying to learn?

If it’s “ground work” that every single one of the NHS guys teach the same thing, which is essentially to communicate with the horse in it’s own language to establish yourself a trusted herd member/leader. This is done by manipulation the horse’s body/personal space just as another horse would do.

The Schiller guy is saying the same thing as all the others (and probably CA as well, although I haven’t watched alot of CA’s videos).

If you are wanting to learn to RIDE, then I would recommend you seek out masters/teachers from the discipline you wish to learn.

In terms of “general” western riding, I think the most elegant and correct rider I’ve seen is Buck Brannaman. He is lovely to watch on a horse & he has quite afew instructional videos on riding & horsemanship out there (ground work as well of course).

If you are coming from an English/dressage background, Lesley Buckley is a gem. He is a NHS/ground work kind of trainer who still starts colts for several big ranches.

But he’s also making a name for himself as a clinican/teacher. The cool thing about him is that, although he rides competitively in western stuff (cutting, I think), he spent 3 yrs in Germany and got certified as a teacher there. So he has a sound working knowledge of how dressage differs from traditional western riding (and it does).

He doesn’t have much in the way of videos out there though…

I’ve watched his TV show and that’s as much of him as I’ve seen. I didn’t really see any red flags. I tried a couple simple problem solving methods he had on the show and it worked well for me. I know one of my horses was started and trained largely with Clinton Anderson methods and he’s quiet and well behaved, he isn’t living in fear and likes his job.

Even if CA can be a little aggressive in HIS riding, you can pick and choose some of his methods where they fit in with what you’ve picked up elsewhere and what works on your horses. No trainer is God. No trainer is perfect.

I’ve used his method on the ground with one horse and I’m using on a second horse currently. It is great! I have the best behaved, most willing, horse in the barn. She loves me and trusts me. I do mostly English btw, and you wouldn’t believe how disobedient so many dressage horses are, yet they look down on me because my horse sometimes wears a rope halter!

I don’t know Anderson’s methods well. But the over-bending and twisting he does with a horse’s neck looks very bad to me.

IME, it’s very hard to fix a horse who has been taught the “learned helplessness” of his head being dragged around to your knee. He’ stay quite heavy in your hand. And worse, I think that position does damage to the joints in the horse’s neck. There is lots more cervical arthritis in horses out there than most people realize. And once you know you have it in a horse, it’s years too late to fix it. Also, once that exists-- particular arthritis in joints right up by the atlas were CA wants the horses to twist the most-- you’ll have a heck of a hard time getting that horse to use his head and neck to balance himself. And that will make for a bad ride and a horse that’s harder to train…all because it hurts for him to assume a position with his head and neck that goes with collection. But the problem being in the neck, no one realizes it.

Just be careful, eh?