What does everyone think of Clinton Anderson training methods for dressage horses?
A lot of them are directly contradictory to what is standard practice for dressage trainers- for example, longing (horse turns in vs. horse stops on circle), leading (horse follows vs. horse at your side), and so on. My horse was started with NH methods, and drove my trainer nuts.
“What does everyone think of Clinton Anderson training methods for dressage horses?”
I try not to. 
I’m not sure how Ambrey’s issues effect the ability of a horse to do dressage…
My mare was John Lyon’s trained before she was put under saddle and the fact that she can be free lunged in the round pen and turn inside or outside to change direction has not effected her ability to do dressage. Whether your horse walks behind your or at your shoulder when being led has absolutely nothing to do with skill in dressage, it is often related to submission. The trainers that tell you the horse should walk behind you are referencing herd mentality where the more submissive horse will not pass the lead horse’s shoulder. They translate this to a horse with his head at your shoulder and effectively past your head is not being as submissive - I am not saying one is better than the other, just explaining the philosophy of many trainers about this method.
Dressage is about submission as well as skill at the ‘dance’. I am not as familiar with Clinton Anderson, but if his version of training helps you get your horse to submit to you on the ground and translate it up to submission in the saddle (which it should), then your horse will be more relaxed and willing to allow you to take the lead.
don’t think it’s worth it for a dressage horse/rider past 2nd level.
his demonstrations with FEI horses/riders was pretty counterproductive to the purpose of dressage, and of course there is the fundamentals missing aka the training pyramid.
probably great for greenies or nervous riders with not a lot of basics, but not so much for riders starting collection and harder lateral work.
JMHO
Even advanced dressage horses might benefit from the various bonding and ground work exercises taught by the “cowboy” types. Whether “NH” or simply being handled with consistency, being able to lead one’s steed without yanking and pulling and potential injury is a plus. (And, FWIW, many of the ancient middle-aged women types are pretty ga-ga over Clinton’s tight jeans and his accent. So you might check your driver’s license and see if his methods are some you might choose to try.) (Oh, c’mon, that really was a joke!) (Sort of.)
I don’t know one horse who is allowed to be handled in a manner that includes yanking and pulling.
Every horse I have ever worked with was expected to have submission through respect for any person handling them, at all times.
Submission and obedience aren’t exclusive to NH. It’s just basic horse training.
I have found some of his ideas very helpfull, others less so. His desensitizing is great. I don’t like the way he asks the horse to flex and drop the contact to pressure.
IMHO he is one of the best teletrainers though. He starts each show with a plan and a goal and sometimes things don’t go according to plan. And particularly when he is working with clinic participants he always emphasizes that the rider needs to go home and keep training . He will also say that there are times he hurried through something for the sake of the show but the trainer needs to go back and keep working
ETA: One other thing I really like about his shows is his expectation that the horse focuses on the handler and responds. He demands a quick response, not this “Tap, tap tap the horse will get tired of it sooner or later”
[QUOTE=Gucci Cowgirl;3335755]
I don’t know one horse who is allowed to be handled in a manner that includes yanking and pulling.
Every horse I have ever worked with was expected to have submission through respect for any person handling them, at all times.
Submission and obedience aren’t exclusive to NH. It’s just basic horse training.[/QUOTE]
I know some who are. Yes, it is proper training - but proper ground training is not always put into a horse. It is something most often neglected. I don’t think anyone is saying that without Clinton Anderson’s training, your horse won’t be trained correctly, just that is it another method that can help.
i dont want anyone handling or training my horses that way, especially on the ground, because i think it would cause a LOT of problems with bonding and building trust with the horse, but agree that the under saddle work defies every part of the training pyramid.
so no.
[QUOTE=Gucci Cowgirl;3335755]
…Submission and obedience aren’t exclusive to NH. It’s just basic horse training.[/QUOTE]
Gucci – I agree that it is basic horse training. Which is my point. Good horsemanship is good horsemanship no matter what it’s called. But many horses lack basic skills. If those horses you have worked with do not lack basic skills, bravo to you! That’s the way it’s supposed to be.
I agree with you, and I understand your point 
the only thing I am trying to say, is that CA has not cornered the market on basic groundmanners or training.
his techniques are not unique, IMHO he is not a visionary, he is a very cute guy who does a good job at what he does.
people do not need to spend uber amounts of money on the NH trainer of the month, they need to just train their horses to respect them…and not have to buy special whips, carrot sticks, flags etc.
I just don’t like the attitude of these NH cowboys who act like they are the only people worthy of training horses, and that their techniques and excercises are revolutionary.
The carrot sticks and the like you speak of are more a Parelli thing. I would not touch him with a ten foot pole.
I haven’t seen much of Clinton Anderson, but what I have seen of his ground work is that he is more akin to John Lyons. So, it might be worth looking into. With any trainer, be it a big name dressage trainer or natural horsemanship trainer, I would not suggest spending money until you are fairly sure it will be worth it to you.
I think you have coupled all Natural Horsemanship trainers under one umbrella, Gucci Cowgirl. I have not found all Natural Horsemanship trainers to think their way is the only way. I have seen many dressage trainers thinking their way is the only way, as well as others that are more open. The Natural Horsemanship training circle is just like the Dressage training circle - full of unique personalities and individuals. Some get along, some do not.
It depends on your horse - if your horse is already well trained, I do not agree that any natural training ‘increases the bond’, unless you want to learn how to ride without a bridle on the trails. I would not follow their under saddle work because they are usually western riders and thus use different aids anyway. Their ground work is worth looking into, though. Always, with any trainer, with a grain of salt.
[QUOTE=Gucci Cowgirl;3335994]
…he is a very cute guy who does a good job at what he does. …people do not need to spend uber amounts of money on the NH trainer of the month, they need to just train their horses to respect them…and not have to buy special whips, carrot sticks, flags etc…I just don’t like the attitude of these NH cowboys who act like they are the only people worthy of training horses, and that their techniques and excercises are revolutionary.[/QUOTE]
And we do agree on quite a number of things, eh? … Tight jeans doesn’t make one a good --or bad – trainer. Basic skills consistently taught, whether based on the NH Flavor or the Month or any of the ODGs… the horse should stand still while being mounted, should lead like a good citizen, and should decidedly refrain from nipping-biting-rearing-striking-kicking-shoving or anything that might in any way infringe upon MY space. On the other hand, it really doesn’t bother me at all if my old mare insists on being The First One Fed by banging on her stall door. I simply feed her first and tell people that it bothers that the barn rule is to feed her first. My barn, my horse, my rules.
He doesn’t claim to be a visionary. He’s a teacher, nothing more, nothing less. He teaches a step-by-step method to develop good ground manners for a horse.
The problem is that a) it’s not visionary, so if you already know how to train a horse it isn’t going to tell you much, and b) it’s step-by-step, so if you want to train your horse differently you lose some of the benefits of his program.
Ajierene, I do think there’s more to it than just those things. CA’s ideas of what demonstrates obedience are a lot different than a dressage trainer’s ideas. I think it goes beyond leading and longing, but honestly that is as far as I got
I just think he’s great for people having simple issues on the ground and needing to be walked through ground training. In my case, it didn’t really help me resolve the problems I was having, so I gave it up.
Ambrey - I have found that most Natural Horsemanship trainers do not help people that already really know how to train. They are there for people who buy horses out of their league or have always dealt with one type of horse and suddenly find themselves in charge of another.
Like I said, I haven’t seen much of him. I still fail to see how different lunging and leading techniques will adversely effect a dressage horse and would like you to elaborate. I can see them confusing a horse that already knows a certain method, but not undue or prevent from training dressage. Can you give more specific examples? Maybe it is just that if you know a certain way or your trainer knows a certain way a horse is ‘supposed’ to behave, it might confuse you as the trainer? I’m not sure if that was clear…just wondering where the problems come from. I’m just thinking - just because they are different, does not make them wrong, I guess.
As an example - my mare does not know how to lunge at all. As I stated before, she was trained in the round pen before she was started under saddle. She has never had a problem understanding a dressage concept or learning something new. She has not been in the round pen since she was 5 and has never been lunged.
A few thoughts…
I have a friend who has a very high strung, opinionated, reactive, athletic, gorgeous, young warmblood mare, (by Rambo not that that makes a difference…)
and who also was convinced that Clinton Anderson methods were THE way to start a young horse…
She also has a lovely but mellow draft cross gelding that she pretty much trained and showed herself, to 1st level… previous to meeting CA… so I respect her opinion…
She went to one of CA’s colt starting clinics, and came back with all of his DVDs and training tools… it was as if she had found religion… I was impressed with her enthusiasm, she is normally very steady and skeptical of “trendy” methods.
Anyway, I am an avid student of horsemanship, and love to compare the different popular “NH” trainers, so asked to borrow the DVD set…
I watched the whole set, and found a couple of things that helped on the ground with my strong willed old pet horse, but not much else…
In the mean time, my friend’s mare went off to a well respected, CA certified trainer and that trainer wasn’t able to get very far with this horse. Then the horse was sent to another well respected “classical/ conventional” dressage trainer and he was able get only a little bit further than the last trainer… so I’m not sure that you can blame CA for this horse’s challenges…
BUT it has given me more of a chance to think about the whole situation…
So here’s my 2 cents… in horse training, yes, you’re supposed to be the “Boss”… but it is up to you to decide what kind of “boss” you’re going to be.
I think that CA is more about dominance than partnership, and that many people with “problem” horses are looking for a way to make their horse “behave”
I think that CA can develop a “Safe” horse, and one who will do what you ask, but that brilliance is sacrificed for safety/ obedience/ complete submission.
Many of the best horses I’ve seen or read about at the upper levels of dressage, eventing, and show jumping have been hot/ opinionated/ quirky individuals, and the key to their success was someone who recognized their talents, but appreciated them as individuals…
I don’t see that with CA… and I think my friend’s mare might be one of those hot/ talented horses suited to the upper levels, but hasn’t found the right person yet…
Oh, I don’t think it would mean you can’t do dressage. But, if you’re training with a dressage trainer and doing CA as well, it will be a conflict.
As was explained to me, it has to do with how the horse demonstrates submission. CA says a horse should always be looking at you, turned toward you. The dressage trainers I have had say that is a sign of dominance, that the horse should not turn toward you. Since it’s kind of a basic tenet of CA’s methods (and he uses longe line and roundpen work a lot) and it is in conflict with what at least my dressage trainers do, it’s something to consider if you’re using his program.
But my horse still turns in on “whoa,” and it hasn’t stopped his progress in the least (he is schooling 1st/2nd). Just annoys my trainers
Originally posted by Arjierene:
They translate this to a horse with his head at your shoulder and effectively past your head is not being as submissive - I am not saying one is better than the other, just explaining the philosophy of many trainers about this method.
The accepted practice of teaching the horse to walk next to you instead of behind you has to do with safety. If you are around horses a lot, then sooner or later ones going to spook at something and if they are next to you they can’t accidently run over you if they get scared.
My friend is very into the Parelli system (she is working on her level 3) and she helped me earn my Level 1 so that I could ride in a Level 2 clinic with a Parelli instructor. I had some conflicts with what the instructor was teaching me (it just seemed to go against everything I was taught). He then told me that if I wanted to continue to compete and train in classical dressage to not do any of the NH riding and just stick with the ground work.
The ground work has been great for bonding and he now self loads in the trailer after I just point to the trailer.
