Closing Argument, D'Wildcat among 4 Stallions being dispersed by auction 10/27/19 in Louisiana

The horses will be “fine.” This is a regional Thoroughbred consignment, not a backwoods livestock auction.

You make some points which are not untrue. But your tone, when combined with the hyperbole and misconceptions that litter your arguments, makes it hard to even consider your viewpoint.

Your posts aren’t going “straight over” the heads of people. Knowledgeable horsemen and women who are active in the industry are saying your strong opinions are incorrect. It’s not a matter of you delivering hard truths that are met with selective hearing; your take on the situation is almost entirely inaccurate.

You did not invent the idea that aftercare of thoroughbreds is a major issue. Nor is it any earth-shattering revelation that some states, like Louisiana, have more pressing welfare concerns than affluent markets. In the past two decades, significant actions have been taken to address such problems. Is there still room for improvement? Absolutely. Yet a farm’s breeding stock being dispersed through an annual industry consignment sale has almost nothing to do with that fact.

I think it goes without saying that anyone taking the time to read this thread wants the best for each and every one of these horses being sold, as we would want for any horse. I’m not really sure what else you expect. A breeding farm is downsizing/getting out of the business and selling their stock through an appropriate venue. I mean, that’s horses. It happens even in the best of economic climates.

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GO BUY A HORSE ALREADY.

Get down off your soapbox and get into the business. This is the perfect opportunity for you to pick up a horse - even a stallion!!! - dirt cheap and show us all how it’s done.

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Pot…Kettle…

Remind me @Palm Beach have you ever given us a single detail to prove (or disprove) all your adventures in race horse ownership???

Go ahead find a name…we’ll wait.

Em

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I’ll be the first to admit I have not a lick of creativity. And I really don’t give a damn what you think. Wait, are you upset because I posted that you should not put Rocket into race training because she won’t amount to much and I was right? Aw, sorry honey.

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no they wont be fine. Just because it is a regional sale doesn’t mean horses end up in pretty pastures. Have you not seen the results from this sale from years past? Horses regularly sell for $500 and it is the norm. It is known that KB are welcomed at this sale and I am sure quite a few end up in the hands of them so their sellers can wipe their hands clean of the ones they no longer want.

I am sure the stallions noted will be fine. they are well known, well bred, and have great track records. Certain organizations have already been notified to take them in if needed. But they have their fame going for them. What about the rest of the so-called “garbage” consigned to that sale which can barely make a bid. They don’t welcome KB to this sale for no-reason. And that commentary did not come from me, but elsewhere in this thread.

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@palmbeach LOL uh no dear. Some of us have confirmed credibility being involved with good barns with real numbers and such. I don’t give a flying fig what you think of a horse I bought on a whim for $3500. What I do care about is you CONSTANTLY judging others, myself included, without putting your actual credentials forward for all to at least see what you do/did. Your fantastical posted win percentages have NEVER been verified.

You can think it’s horrible to be in the public eye but you lay out judgement over and over and expect no one to notice that you’ve never put yourself forward.

@snaffle1987 probably knows more in their part of the racing world than you. So why you’re telling them what to do us beyond me. But it’s you…so not a shock.

Em

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the fact that you continue to make posts about this towards me is borderline laughable. You ASSume that I don’t own horses, never mind a racehorse(s), or have any experience in this genre. Its laughable really. Keep ASSuming. I like it. For all you know, I could have a stable of 20 throughout the year and a be a multiple graded stakes winner. Maybe I have a stable of 3 and race locally to my home with a few decent horses to keep my heart entertained. Maybe I do, Maybe I don’t. Palm Beach, the internet owes you nothing. I owe you nothing. The nice thing about message boards is screen names exist for a reason and I intend to continue to operate in anonymity for good reason.

Cheers.

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I put “fine” with deliberate quotation marks because every time you sell a horse, there is a risk. There is no one on the planet who does not realize that.

Yes, I have seen the results from past years. Yes, a lot of horses receive no bid or sell for $500. Horses also sell for as much as $50K.

Whispering Oaks is selling 16 (?) horses. Two of them, the subjects of this post, are graded stakes winning former leading sires in Louisiana who will undoubtedly find a breeding situation, or attract attention of a good samaritan at very least. Their broodmares are all selling with a 2020 season to one of the two sires that Whispering Oaks appears to be retaining. Most are selling in foal. While I think there is a level of hell for people who consign aged broodmares, Whispering Oaks did the best thing they could by selling them in foal with a free season for next year. All but one of the yearlings they are selling are by Kentucky sires and have stronger-than-average catalog pages for this type of sale. Then you have their other stallions and a couple weanlings from the first crop of their new sire.

If you want to make a stink about something, make a stink about some of the other consigners selling “worthless” horses. Like Hip 112, who is 14 years of age and barren. No one wants a 14 year old failed broodmare, even if she is from the family of Tapit through her 3rd dam.

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Oh I bet someone would be interested in that for sport. Someone who’s friends with or is able to use a good repro vet.

Em

I would not want to mess with any mare with that type of produce record period. 1 unraced foal, 5 years of no report, and currently open… with her type of family, that’s red flags galore. But if you know someone, please put the word out for her sake!

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I think you need to understand that I was not the one to start this thread. Merely pointing out that no horse, regardless of record, is immune to such fates. These stallions will land safely, I am sure. But many at this sale will not end up with such nice fates

I own a retiree who went through an on-track sale of racing age horses. Was a skimpy little sale of 10-20 horses in the shed row at one of the lower level tracks in this country. Many of the horses run through the “sale” were bought for kill, sent back to the kill lot not far from the track and disappeared. They were older horses, hard knockers, minimal wins. I knew of one of the horses personally and I was tipped off about her being sold that day. She was extremely well bred and well raced in her early career for one of the premier racing establishments in the country but for 5 years she fell to the bottom and stayed there. I couldn’t stand to see her end up in bad hands so I took her home that day for under $1000. She was sound and could’ve continued racing but decided after 9 years she had seen enough. Some horses did find homes with other trainers that day; most did not. I was convinced this was a sale held as a way to potentially dispose of some horses without them getting “caught” at the local sale barn which had high surveillance by animal activists. They were still sold on site at the track which allowed them to leave the premises as they did but they were never seen again.

It’s a sad world out there. Some people are better than others. At least in this country we have avenues to help these horses if we can and alert those organizations that can help. These stallions and broodmares sent to Japan, China, Korea, Russia, Puerto Rico etc don’t always end up with similar fates. That’s why I couldn’t ever breed anything myself and then put it through the sales ring and risk them being sold to a country like that. If I am going to breed, I breed to race and that is it; no running them through the sales arena. I couldn’t stomach that if the horse I bred and raised went across the pond either directly from the sale I sent it to or if it was resold as a 2 yr old in training sale.

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What a stupid post. You are not involved in racing at all.

Nice.
And, as you know, there are a bunch of folks here who don’t believe you about anything, either.

Carry on. :lol:

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I’m sorry, were these words not yours?

You flat out said we are shipping Derby runners and low end broodmares to slaughter or slaughter sales. I was countering your statement by acknowledging that is not the situation AT ALL. Your are distorting the story. This is a regional sale for thoroughbreds of mixed ages; the appropriate market for selling LA-bred stock. Yes, it is unfortunate that some of these horses have so little value that minimum bids are woefully low, which attracts the type of people who buy cheap horses. I agree with you that the low end of the thoroughbred market is a problem; but this also isn’t a problem unique to thoroughbreds. Over-breeding/poorly conceived breeding occurs in every single registry. It’s far more complicated than this particular incidence.

Merely pointing out that no horse, regardless of record, is immune to such fates. These stallions will land safely, I am sure. But many at this sale will not end up with such nice fates

I own a retiree who went through an on-track sale of racing age horses. Was a skimpy little sale of 10-20 horses in the shed row at one of the lower level tracks in this country. Many of the horses run through the “sale” were bought for kill, sent back to the kill lot not far from the track and disappeared. They were older horses, hard knockers, minimal wins. I knew of one of the horses personally and I was tipped off about her being sold that day. She was extremely well bred and well raced in her early career for one of the premier racing establishments in the country but for 5 years she fell to the bottom and stayed there. I couldn’t stand to see her end up in bad hands so I took her home that day for under $1000. She was sound and could’ve continued racing but decided after 9 years she had seen enough. Some horses did find homes with other trainers that day; most did not. I was convinced this was a sale held as a way to potentially dispose of some horses without them getting “caught” at the local sale barn which had high surveillance by animal activists. They were still sold on site at the track which allowed them to leave the premises as they did but they were never seen again.

It’s a sad world out there. Some people are better than others. At least in this country we have avenues to help these horses if we can and alert those organizations that can help. These stallions and broodmares sent to Japan, China, Korea, Russia, Puerto Rico etc don’t always end up with similar fates. That’s why I couldn’t ever breed anything myself and then put it through the sales ring and risk them being sold to a country like that. If I am going to breed, I breed to race and that is it; no running them through the sales arena. I couldn’t stomach that if the horse I bred and raised went across the pond either directly from the sale I sent it to or if it was resold as a 2 yr old in training sale.

You are “merely pointing out” things that everyone already knows, and being quite rude about it. I understand you feel passionately about the topic, but you’re also denigrating people’s livelihoods without consideration for the entire picture.

I guarantee you that every single person reading this thread has a story about a “rescued” thoroughbred or a thoroughbred who met an unfortunate fate. You are not unique. You are not telling us anything we don’t know.

You come across like everyone in racing is in the wrong; that everyone is a bad guy and no one is listening to you. My question is for you is: what are your proposed solutions? Because everyone who is actually involved in the sport understands that this is a complicated problem that cannot be corrected overnight; yet you seem to believe otherwise.

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Please tell us when you actually do something like breeding in the real world. I’d love to be the proverbial fly on the wall when our scolding paragon finds out that things can get a little complicated when a person actually has to be responsible for the decisions they make. It gets even more real when things don’t work out quite the way someone planned it out in their head.

Maybe then a little empathy might creep in.

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you do not have a clue. wink, wink. carry on.

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Sure. Like how a path gets ground into a shedrow from horses walking around and around, and needs to be leveled and raked every morning after training, and it’s rude to walk down the middle of someone’s freshly raked shedrow. Or how leather bridles were hung up with keepers and loops undone after training (before the biothane era). When the vet comes to treat a horse and no one is in the barn, the vet leaves the halter on the horse to show he/she treated the horse. Or what color wax is used to seal urine sample jars. And you had to get the overnight from the gate guard before the internet era. And that payphones were locked up when racing started, back in the day where there were pay phones. Or what it’s like to gallop a horse in the hacienda at Bowie, or in the woods. Back in the early 1990s, the freelance rate for galloping a horse was $10, and you got $20 for a really bad one. Old Eddie Blind would tell dirty jokes while you stood in the gate waiting to break in the morning. Gee, this stuff is really easy to google, huh.

I never said you had no clue. (I know you’re not accusing me of that…yet) But you’ve also had this really successful record that no one has ever verified.

FYI, not that many barns at Bowie were meticulously raked in my era there. Sure they weren’t as bad as the cliffs at Charlestown barns. Those made skater parks seem like child’s play.

Dirty jokes on the backside of any track go hand in hand. As does what would now be referred to as the the #metoo movement.

The Hacienda at Bowie isn’t great but Jerkens barn at Belmont with a full load of 12 galloping at once in the winter is really an adrenaline kick. A bit better than Bowie with the fatal cement walls.

Em

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Bowie was my first track, and since then I’ve been up and down the East Coast major tracks except Belmont, and west to Keeneland. The past couple years I’ve been a minority partner in a couple decent horses, but my name does not go in the program. I worked on the backside for many years but stopped galloping in the mid 1990s and have just been an owner since then. I could give you my name, but I race any thing owned 50% or more by me run under a stable name, and the rest race under the majority partners name. A hint - I am fb friends with at least 3 people on this board.

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Well said, Texarkana.

snaffle - you seem to pride yourself on your “superiority” and “expertise” in every aspect of racing… and yet when you post merely to stir the pot and try and light fires (as is your wont) and seem to despise anything to do with racing and sneer about it… you are going to get push back.

I wonder how many of the racing keyboard warriors (OMG!! OUTRAGE!!! this and OMG!! HORRORS!! that) have ever been on the backside in the early hours of the morning working their asses off… or running on about an hour of sleep a night during foaling season… or actually been out there Doing… as opposed to pointing and lecturing and tapping at a keyboard in indignation about how stupid the rest of us are…

They do not have a clue. Wink, wink. Carry on…

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