Cold Weather Laminitis? Heated barn?

[Lord_Helpus]

If you are going to blanket him and put leg/hoof wraps on him, I would get the Back on Track or any brand with the ceramic fibers in the material. They really increase warmth and keep the blood flowing.

PS: This is really interesting. I had never heard of Cold Weather Laminitis.

If you do get him to a clinic for diagnostics, I would have a venogram done. It measures the blood flow going into the hooves.

[Katy_Watts]

For those interested in supporting science:
Pubmed, search
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Simon+Bailey+equine+vasoconstriction

[Katy_Watts]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8911879]

If you do get him to a clinic for diagnostics, I would have a venogram done. It measures the blood flow going into the hooves.[/QUOTE]

Would really love to see someone do this on a horse with cold related laminitis and high insulin. It won’t work on a horse with normal insulin levels. One leg in ice water, one leg warm. Might make a nice masters project. Doppler might work as well.

[DancingArabian]

Just curious but I noticed that some posters are more or less saying that this is due to the change in temperature. Why would it be a reaction to the change in temperature and not due to the changes in the sugar levels in the grass as the season changes?

[TWH_Girl]

My older guy is cold sensitive too. I’m thinking of trying these…https://www.johnscrosstackroom.com/for-horse-c1/boots-safety-c8/equi-chaps-hardy-chaps-p803

Why not call WEC and see if they have recommendations of a vet in your area? They may also be able to do a long distance consult. I use them for my regular and lameness vets.

[JB]

[QUOTE=DancingArabian;8912874]
Just curious but I noticed that some posters are more or less saying that this is due to the change in temperature. Why would it be a reaction to the change in temperature and not due to the changes in the sugar levels in the grass as the season changes?[/QUOTE]
Well, it can be, but what is being discussed is what happens to horses who aren’t on any grass, and still eating the same batch of hay they had been eating.

[DancingArabian]

[QUOTE=JB;8912974]
Well, it can be, but what is being discussed is what happens to horses who aren’t on any grass, and still eating the same batch of hay they had been eating.[/QUOTE]

There could be changes in that particular part of the batch of hay, too though. I know two ponies who had were on a dry lot and had laminitis episodes (they are pasture mates) with no known change - but when the hay was tested, the bales that were in the section they were currently pulling from were different than the hay in another part of the barn. All of the hay was delivered together, from the same farm, cut and baled at the same time.

[Katy_Watts]

[QUOTE=DancingArabian;8912982]
There could be changes in that particular part of the batch of hay, too though. [/QUOTE]

Yes. This is possible. I even had a horse get sore feet from the Johnson grass inside a round bale.

But there are those of us who have observed and journaled as many differences as possible, and over the years temperature had a significant, reliable, and predictable effect. I made an Excel spreadsheet of temp vs sore feet over the years. Within a week of their ‘set’ point, they go from running to standing only on soft bedding and walking on eggshells. At -25F my mare was flat out and not eating. Year after year, with a diet of native C4 grass that tested 7-9 % NSC. Farriers who specialize in foundered horses also notice that several of their chronic laminitis horses will go down in the first bad winter storm.

[hank]

Katy, maybe you could talk about the shunt system in hoofed animal’s legs? My observation is that it starts to function in my horses at ~50 f. I’m sure if a horse has damage from previous founder, it could make them foot sore when the blood shuts down.

[Katy_Watts]

Hank,
But not all previously foundered horses get sore in the cold. My older mare was far less prone to winter laminitis once she was kept on the correct, ever increasing dose of pergolide. Her daughter, with a genetic form of hyperinsulinemia was the one that had such a difficult reaction to cold.

Speculation has been done by far more informed minds than mine. IMO there is no ‘unifying theory’ of laminitis. It’s a symptom with several causes.
Here’s a good full text summation of the different theories, including the similarities to Raynauds .

http://boleto_doutorado.pdf.evz.ufg.br/up/66/o/laminite_eq_3.pdf

[JB]

[QUOTE=DancingArabian;8912982]
There could be changes in that particular part of the batch of hay, too though. I know two ponies who had were on a dry lot and had laminitis episodes (they are pasture mates) with no known change - but when the hay was tested, the bales that were in the section they were currently pulling from were different than the hay in another part of the barn. All of the hay was delivered together, from the same farm, cut and baled at the same time.[/QUOTE]
Of course.

But year after year, with a predictable occurrence based on temperature? No

[hank]

Thanks Katy

[saultgirl]

So what is the treatment for an episode of laminitis that has been triggered by the cold? Any sign of laminitis would have me thinking to ice/cold hose to bring down the inflammation.

[grayarab]

Horses affected with laminitis that’s cold weather induced must have metabolic issues?? no normal horse would get laminitis because of cold temps. If my horses had this issue i’d either move them on or PTS. Think if cold affects them that badly one would have to question,quality of life.

I live in a part of the country that has 6 or 7 months of below 40 steady november to march, april is well below freezing.

[JB]

Yes, of course it’s a metabolic issue Otherwise horses living North of, say, Florda would have trouble LOL Horses evolved as cold-weather animals. For sure, having trouble in cold weather would not have allowed them to flourish.

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=saultgirl;8913503]
So what is the treatment for an episode of laminitis that has been triggered by the cold? Any sign of laminitis would have me thinking to ice/cold hose to bring down the inflammation.[/QUOTE]

I would think in cold induced laminitis ice would be counterproductive, but it would be difficult to differentiate between the many contributing factors for the vets and farriers.

I wonder if one of those instruments that shows the temperature of things in colors (cold areas are blue, shading to hot areas in red) would be good to have?

I guess I mean a thermal imaging camera?

Oh Cool!!! There is an attachment for your phone that gives it thermal imaging capability.

www.flir.com/flirone/ios-android/

Any techies care to weigh in…is this going to work on horse hooves?

[snowrider]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;8911418]
It’s the sugar in the stressed grasses not the temp so no a heated barn won’t prevent it. X-rays and blood work would be my next step.[/QUOTE]

I doubt they are getting any grass in Wisconsin in the winter though.

[snowrider]

Has anyone here done the diagnostics to see if these horses actually have laminitis vs sore feet? Or is “cold weather laminitis” kind of a term for sore feet.

I guess me question is are the laminae affected or no? It sounds like horses have a remarkably quick recovery with warm weather which does not remind me of laminits at all.

[JB]

Laminitis is just inflammation of the lamina. The folks I personally know who have experienced this, know how to see laminitis in their particular horses because they’d been through it via the normal means - grass, high sugar hay, etc.

Outside of those who have the money and time (and vet) to do venograms every time this happens to see what’s going on, I don’t think the average owner (and average here is a very wide spectrum) is going to do that, and without that, you can’t “see” laminitis.

Horses can come out of a laminitic state very quickly once the cause is removed. How quickly of course depends on how severe it was and how recently it happened. But it does happen, and it can be just a couple of days.

[snowrider]

There are generally bounding pulse, thickening on xray, inflammatory markers etc. If the horses are laminitic for months at a time as described above I’d expect to see something.

If it is more Raynauds like it seems there might be some treatments, which is why I’m asking.

ETA. I found a website run by a Dr Kellon VMD in the UK. They’ve done research into damaged AVA stunts in horses with cold weather lameness and have some treatment options. OP might want to check it out. It does appear to be related to a damaged thermoregulation system. There’s also a Yahoo group, the ECIR group. Hope that helps!