Cold weather owners with personal indoors?!

[mountainhorse]

This is for all of those riders that live in a climate where winter = snow and frozen ground for several months out of the year. I am looking for responses from owners that have horses at home, and a personal indoor (or even just ‘indoors of your barn’ riding area) ring to ride and work horses in, in the winter.
I need some serious advice.
My DH and I are moving from a pretty temperate climate, year round riding, to NW Wyoming. It’s a big climate change re: winter (and summer, but we are looking forward to that!).
We are on a limited budget, and the amount we paid for our little house and 5 acres in Wyoming was more than anticipated, so the indoor arena (basic one, nothing fancy) kind of was lost in all of that.
However, I am having second thoughts,…please give us some advice. PM are fine too.
I would love to/need to know:

why did you decide to build a private indoor for yourself? (re: don’t need boarders to pay for it; your horses were your primary reason for building).

what was your budget and ending price in it all?

Did you build it onto your barn?

Any ‘don’ts or do’s’ for someone thinking about it?

Did you build it at the same time as barn or add on later? Did you build the barn knowing this and how did that affect the barn design?

Please post photos of your indoor,…

At the end of the day, is it worth the $$?

My thoughts:
We have an indoor boarding facility 10 miles up the road that allow trailer ins to work in the indoor,…but other than paying a yearly fee (not a problem really) for access to it, you are ‘competing’ for space with boarders, trainers, etc. that all take precedence over you coming in, and in snow storms, I am certainly not going to hook up my trailer and haul my two big guys 10 miles. There is also a limited timeframe you can come in and school, which if it doesn’t coincide with my work schedule, then oh well,…
Also, in snow storms/frozen grounds, I can turn them out in the indoor to move around more.

Am I justified in making that decision for an indoor? I need some good COTH experience here to help us.
Thanks!

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

[QUOTE=fiddleandco;7377865]
This is for all of those riders that live in a climate where winter = snow and frozen ground for several months out of the year. I am looking for responses from owners that have horses at home, and a personal indoor (or even just ‘indoors of your barn’ riding area) ring to ride and work horses in, in the winter.
I need some serious advice.
My DH and I are moving from a pretty temperate climate, year round riding, to NW Wyoming. It’s a big climate change re: winter (and summer, but we are looking forward to that!).
We are on a limited budget, and the amount we paid for our little house and 5 acres in Wyoming was more than anticipated, so the indoor arena (basic one, nothing fancy) kind of was lost in all of that.
However, I am having second thoughts,…please give us some advice. PM are fine too.
I would love to/need to know:

why did you decide to build a private indoor for yourself? (re: don’t need boarders to pay for it; your horses were your primary reason for building).

what was your budget and ending price in it all?

Did you build it onto your barn?

Any ‘don’ts or do’s’ for someone thinking about it?

Did you build it at the same time as barn or add on later? Did you build the barn knowing this and how did that affect the barn design?

Please post photos of your indoor,…

At the end of the day, is it worth the $$?

My thoughts:
We have an indoor boarding facility 10 miles up the road that allow trailer ins to work in the indoor,…but other than paying a yearly fee (not a problem really) for access to it, you are ‘competing’ for space with boarders, trainers, etc. that all take precedence over you coming in, and in snow storms, I am certainly not going to hook up my trailer and haul my two big guys 10 miles. There is also a limited timeframe you can come in and school, which if it doesn’t coincide with my work schedule, then oh well,…
Also, in snow storms/frozen grounds, I can turn them out in the indoor to move around more.

Am I justified in making that decision for an indoor? I need some good COTH experience here to help us.
Thanks![/QUOTE]

I have two good friends with private indoors who are not professional trianers, even though I don’t personally, but I can perhaps say why they do and I don’t…

Neither built it on to their barn. This had to do with topography. Yes, in the cold it is way better to build onto your barn.

One built additional length after a couple years of a 145’ x 76’ indoor (went to 200’). The other started with a 200 x 80. You can add length, but you cannot add width. Do not make it too narrow.

Second, build in lots of natural light.

Third, don’t skimp on footing.

Budget. Honestly, a lot of money. The one who added on had her outdoor at the site of her indoor (and just built the indoor right there without disturbing a lot of footing) as she saved and decided if she really wanted an indoor. Since I’m not anonymous and it isn’t my farm I don’t know that I can answer that for you, but you can get a quote from a local builder and then add in dirt work and sand and get a pretty good idea with a phone call. The big thing is, at least here, you will not get it out of the property if you sell.

I don’t have an indoor. I have lived at my place for a year now and have been focused on remodeling the house. I think not having my horse here for a bit has been great. I got my pasture seeded last spring and it had a year to grow and I’ve had a chance to go through a flood and the end of a drought season. I’ve totally changed my opinion on where I would build a barn and the riding arena.

I am going to do all weather footing outdoor. Normally, you can ride outside almost until Christmas. January and Feb. the reality is with work, the short days and the extreme cold I don’t want to ride period. I would rather board one show horse for March and April or even send it to the trainer for a couple months, than put the cost into something I will not get a fraction of my money for if we sell our farm.

If you are on the fence, I suggest you do a year with an outdoor and then decide.

[msj]

OK will try to answer your questions.

why did you decide to build a private indoor for yourself? (re: don’t need boarders to pay for it; your horses were your primary reason for building).

Why did I build it? Like the L’Oreal commercial, I’m worth it and so are my horses!

what was your budget and ending price in it all?

Yes. I wouldn’t have considered otherwise. You can always cut some corners elsewhere, like pave the driveway later or add another pasture.

Did you build it onto your barn?

Yes. Due the lay of the land, I had to do it to the side of my barn. Indoor is 60’ x120’, and barn is 100’ x 24’. Overall width of both structures is 84’. If I could have done it differently though, I would have had a LONG building instead of a wide building as it’s cheaper to go long than wide.

Any ‘don’ts or do’s’ for someone thinking about it? If you have young horses, ride alone most of the time, I would strongly recommend a shingle roof instead of a metal roof. When the snow slides off a metal roof, it sounds worse than thunder and can and will spook the horses. Some horses get used to it but why take the chance. Yes, shingle roofs are more maintenance but safety should be your biggest concern. Also use architectural shingles-much stronger.

Did you build it at the same time as barn or add on later?

Built same time as barn.

Did you build the barn knowing this and how did that affect the barn design?

I just had to make sure there were several doors leading from the barn area to the indoor as well as doors from the indoor to the outside.

Please post photos of your indoor,…Wish I could. Sorry.

At the end of the day, is it worth the $$? I can’t imagine having horses in the cold north without an indoor.

Just being able to give them a chance to roll and have a good romp when the ground is frozen solid makes it worthwhile. Also, if you get a blinding blizzard or worse and can’t get your horses outside for a few days, you can give them exercise in the indoor. When we just had a day that was -7F with a wind chill of -27F my horses stayed in and where turned out 4 times during the day for at least 30 minutes each time.

Hope I answered your questions OK.

[Blume_Farm]

I don’t live in the frigid NE or Midwest, but I do have a personal indoor. Or actually a covered arena, as a true indoor is not needed where I live. It is small, 60 X 140, but serves it purpose. The main reason I have it is for lights in the winter and good footing as we get a lot of wet in the winter. Without it and the lights I would get nothing done all winter with my work schedule.

I built my barn along one long side of the arena to save money. Having said that I hardly ever use those stalls as my horses live outside with run-in shelters. I have used them in emergencies, lay ups, keeping clean for shows, etc.

I realize it adds no value to my land but I hope to stay here for a good long time so built what I wanted, and not what someone else wanted.

I think in the end it cost me about $80K as I built it during the economic downturn so had some really good bids as folks had no work.

I also like it as I have young horses and it is a good enclosed area to get them started.

I will try to take pics for you later.

The only thing I would love to change/ add is better footing (just have sand with MagChlor for dust control), a sprinkler system and better mirrors (I have ones I picked up off Craiglist and are funky, but work).

The metal roof is loud in the rain but doesn’t bother me. We don’t get too much snow here so that is not a huge factor for us. If we do get snow I don’t ride in it until all the snow has melted and usually that is just a day or two.

[Bluey]

One good way to build is to go clear span and high for your arena and then add to one long side an overhang for the stalls, feed, tack, wash, etc. rooms.

You can buy longer for considerably less than width on the clear span and adding to it on the side lets you keep it all under one roof, ideal when it is all snow out there.

I worked decades ago out of one such barn in WY, by the Big Horns and it was heavenly.

Also, the larger you go, the less the whole may cost per square foot on the overhang.

I would have several drawings of what you can live with and get bids on all, then see what the differences may be.

Very important, don’t rush this, take all the time to study this up front.

Are there any such close to where you are?
Go talk to the owners and see what they tell you worked for them and what they would do differently.

[js]

Also, are you going to live on this property in WY for a very long time? Indoors, barns, etc. may or may not add value to your property, it depends on buyers and what they are willing to pay for; so your investment may or may not pay off should you sell later on.

How big on an indoor do you need? While I agree that you want something big, that isn’t always feasible and in my world anything indoors would be an asset. If hubby and friends are handy and have time and skills, there is always the option of buying a building and constructing it yourself. Anything over 65’ wide really starts adding $$$. Maybe you could start with a covered arena and enclose it as time and money allow. It boils down to money, do you have the money to invest in one without breaking the bank or putting your family at financial risk should other cash emergencies occur and is it a good investment for your property. That said, we lived in Anchorage AK for 4 1/2 years, we didn’t have an indoor and managed but I was much heartier in my younger days!

Call around to some barn builders and get some quotes on barns and indoor arenas. Now would be the time to sit down and figure out just how much you have to spend and how far it will go. How you are going to finance it, as many banks will not finance barns, arenas etc. Just for some perspective, we are currently building a new barn, nothing fancy but I did upgrade the stalls to something a bit more fancy than standard, when it is complete we will have about $50,000 invested in a 4 stall barn with tack room and hay storage area.

[SmartAlex]

We added a 50x50 arena to our barn and would NEVER do without it. We use it for a dry lot. Three doors open onto various sized pens or paddocks. It is the right size for longeing and will do for riding in a pinch. We walled off two of the corners as stalls but use them for storage (jumps, fans, hay) instead. A third corner became a tackroom.

[2DogsFarm]

I had professionals (FBI Bldgs) build an attached 60X120 indoor with skylights along the ridge & 2’ eavelights all around that let in enough light so even now I rarely turn on lights to ride.
I have 16’ tall 12’ wide slding doors on all 4 sides of the indoor. With these open I have plenty daylight & air circulating.
Base is compacted #53 gravel with 2" of angular sand over that.

My cost - including prepping the base and the footing - was included with the attached barn built at the same time & since it was 10yrs ago, won’t be comparable to any quote you get now.

I use it for turnout when the ground is frozen so my 2 can let off some steam and get in a good roll.

With my original 2 horses it did not get that much use in good weather.
Turns out I really prefer to ride outdoors.
BUT: my current horse can be reactive outside - oddly some days I have to push him, other days he’s all What’sThat?!!? - and at 17H+ it is too long a ways down to chance a fall for Aging Me.
My other horse is a Hackney pony I’m hoping to retrain to drive, and the indoor is a godsend for that.

If it ever comes to resale, I’m hoping the barn & indoor can be marketed as a workshop space with the indoor getting a cement floor for that purpose <buyer’s expense.

[mountainhorse]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7379083]
One good way to build is to go clear span and high for your arena and then add to one long side an overhang for the stalls, feed, tack, wash, etc. rooms.

You can buy longer for considerably less than width on the clear span and adding to it on the side lets you keep it all under one roof, ideal when it is all snow out there.

I worked decades ago out of one such barn in WY, by the Big Horns and it was heavenly.

Also, the larger you go, the less the whole may cost per square foot on the overhang.

I would have several drawings of what you can live with and get bids on all, then see what the differences may be.

Very important, don’t rush this, take all the time to study this up front.

Are there any such close to where you are?
Go talk to the owners and see what they tell you worked for them and what they would do differently.[/QUOTE]

With clear span: will need to see how that would fly with the neighbors, given we are moving into a “neighborhood”, it may not meet the " must be aesthetically pleasing " requirements.
Not the favorite thing-having to ‘ask’ for permission on a building, but hey, it’s what we have, and we love the area and home,…

We would like to design a barn with:
Under cover/walled in:

3-4 stalls (have 3 horses, but I think to put 4 stalls is better, since that is the max # of horses allowed on the property, and IF we were to ever resell, that might be a good thing. I also may have ‘guest horses’ occasionally, so that stall would be helpful. However, if it affects our budget too much, it would just be 3.

Indoor wash stall

Simple bathroom ( optional, but SO helpful in the winter. )

Tack and Feed room combo (small, neat, tidy)

Hay storage (yes, I know, fire risk… but we are limited on space. So, it is what it is.) Think normal sized bales,… and apparently 1-ton bales are a big thing around here too! So, got to accommodate those as well.

None of it has to be fancy, we can ‘finish’ things out later, but we need the basic structural things done now.

The arena COULD be just covered, as we are wanting to do a covered area to park:

JD (30/32E) Tractor
4 tractor attachments (bush hog, finish cut mower, seeder, etc.)
2 flatbed trailers
4-wheeler
4-wheeler trailer (small)
Horse trailer (trying to configure a ‘drive through’ where I can just drive through the building and park!)

This ‘covered area’ we can wall up later, if cost is prohibitive initially. We just need them under cover.

Ironically, my father is a contractor, but on the east coast. So, not a lot of ‘family help’ due to the distance. However, we do KNOW building, and that is a huge help, as a lot of the finishes (interior stuff), we will do.

Well,…that was a bit of a vent, thanks for reading.
Again, any pictures of your indoors with barn attached would be very helpful.
I am at the point of banging my head against the wall sketching blueprints…I just can’t seem to configure it all right, with the lay of the land, etc.

We are trying to maximize our little 5 acres for pasture, and have 1 driveway,…trying to get the ‘drive through’ thing for horse trailer,…be able to access all equipment, AND horses being able to go free-choice from pasture to stalls,…so stalls have to face to field.

AH!

[Ruby2shoes]

Every year I get on the indoor kick about this time. I start making phone calls and crunching numbers. It’s really insane because we probably could do it. But I feel so afraid to take the plunge and put my family at risk for financial disaster. It would be easier if I absolutely could not do it.

I would LOVE to have a space and have been seriously considering a clearspan fabric structure. IMO and based on the research I’ve done a 60x60 would be the smallest I would go and I think this would suit my family fine. I have no intentions for business use. Good luck OP.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=fiddleandco;7379566]
With clear span: will need to see how that would fly with the neighbors, given we are moving into a “neighborhood”, it may not meet the " must be aesthetically pleasing " requirements.
Not the favorite thing-having to ‘ask’ for permission on a building, but hey, it’s what we have, and we love the area and home,…

We would like to design a barn with:
Under cover/walled in:

3-4 stalls (have 3 horses, but I think to put 4 stalls is better, since that is the max # of horses allowed on the property, and IF we were to ever resell, that might be a good thing. I also may have ‘guest horses’ occasionally, so that stall would be helpful. However, if it affects our budget too much, it would just be 3.

Indoor wash stall

Simple bathroom ( optional, but SO helpful in the winter. )

Tack and Feed room combo (small, neat, tidy)

Hay storage (yes, I know, fire risk… but we are limited on space. So, it is what it is.) Think normal sized bales,… and apparently 1-ton bales are a big thing around here too! So, got to accommodate those as well.

None of it has to be fancy, we can ‘finish’ things out later, but we need the basic structural things done now.

The arena COULD be just covered, as we are wanting to do a covered area to park:

JD (30/32E) Tractor
4 tractor attachments (bush hog, finish cut mower, seeder, etc.)
2 flatbed trailers
4-wheeler
4-wheeler trailer (small)
Horse trailer (trying to configure a ‘drive through’ where I can just drive through the building and park!)

This ‘covered area’ we can wall up later, if cost is prohibitive initially. We just need them under cover.

Ironically, my father is a contractor, but on the east coast. So, not a lot of ‘family help’ due to the distance. However, we do KNOW building, and that is a huge help, as a lot of the finishes (interior stuff), we will do.

Well,…that was a bit of a vent, thanks for reading.
Again, any pictures of your indoors with barn attached would be very helpful.
I am at the point of banging my head against the wall sketching blueprints…I just can’t seem to configure it all right, with the lay of the land, etc.

We are trying to maximize our little 5 acres for pasture, and have 1 driveway,…trying to get the ‘drive through’ thing for horse trailer,…be able to access all equipment, AND horses being able to go free-choice from pasture to stalls,…so stalls have to face to field.

AH![/QUOTE]

“Clear Span” in building means without columns in the middle, all one span under the main roof.
I think you may have misunderstood that as a fabric covered building maybe, because there is one brand of those with that name?

Up to 100’ clear span, metal framed buildings are reasonable and generally multi-purpose, can be used for warehouse or shop later, so they keep their resale value very well.

Larger than 100’ clear span the framing has to be considerably bigger and can cost up to 1/5 more per 10’ width added.

Length is generally a standard price, no matter how wide, until you get below 30’ wide, then it starts costing more, because you have to frame the same for a 10’ overhang or 40’ one, as far as strength, only difference in the extra metal sheets for the roof and that is the least of the cost, the framing the bigger one.

In the East you have many “pole barns”, built with wood framing and trusses, but generally those are smaller structures.
You hardly see those in the West, most new larger buildings are metal framed and many clear span framing, not trusses.

[mountainhorse]

Bluey,
Yes, I did think you were talking about the fabric buildings! Thanks for clarifying!

[ReSomething]

My trainer doesn’t take in boarders as a rule, everybody is full training or lesson program or something like that. It’s traditional in the ASB world to have a wide aisleway and bed it in something like tanbark and use that for riding. Harness is a different story.

She built the indoor which I think is 50X130 as a connected but separate building running parallel to the original remodeled tobacco barn. It’s a pole barn. I’ve read that the smallest diameter for a canter circle (used in the circus) is 42 feet so it is possible to canter the ends or trot the ends in harness. The aisle required a stop and turn around or you had to go outside to turn the cart around.

It’s tall enough to jump in but setting a course is very very difficult, there just isn’t enough room. It functions as an excellent turnout area and has a nice viewing room/bath/ snack area as a small structure built under the front, cart storage on top.

[2DogsFarm]

OP:
if you did want to go with the fabric clearspan they now come in more traditional designs

http://www.norsemanstructures.com/building-selector

[mem]

Northwest Wyoming in the winter? My parents live in Powell (outside Cody). You might want to consider boarding your first winter if you are moving from a temperate climate. I couldn’t imaging riding in a “covered” ring in the winter winds, I would want walls (and insulation!). With only 3 or 4 horses, your barn may be pretty chilly also. Building a functional indoor that you would actually use in that climate is expensive. I would avoid fabric, due to the noise from wind. I find some horses have a tough time with the ice/snow sliding off the roof, and the moving shadows of tree limbs on sunny days. I live in far upstate NY, and the winters get pretty tough, but WY winters seem tougher to me.

[JohnDeere]

Couple of ideas that may/may not work

One local barn has an isleway with a bull pen at each end so you can do free lunge/turn out or open up the whole business & ride ti. If your gonna build a barn anyway it might be cheaper than arena.

Our local riding club costs like $20 to belong for a year it has 2 covered (not enclosed) huge rings, a huge parking lot & metal building, the only time its not available in on weekends during spring/summer/fall, check to see if theres anywhere like that in WY.

Around here lots of people take the horses home after show season to save some $ maybe you could do the opposite put your horse in a barn with arena for winter $$wise iw would be much cheaper if you can find a place that takes good care, most places around here do alright.

[winter]

I think the question you have to ask yourself is how serious of a rider are you? Do you show in the summer? Are you bringing along young horses? Are you a 5-6 day a week rider under normal circumstances? Do you work full time away from home?

If you do not ride many times per week, every week an indoor is not worth it for you. If you are a recreational rider, it’s not worth it. If you are home during the day and are tough, riding outside can be feasible but there will be many weeks where it’s too cold and or too much snow but it could be enough if you have moderate goals.

I do not believe in using an indoor for turnout if you care about your footing at all but some people do that.

I have friends who do the following:
-Give their horses the winter off and show at one or two local shows in the summer. I do not think the winter off works if you have more ambitious goals for your horses. Winter off can work if you have a very experienced show horse, but starts to not work as the horse ages as they often need to stay in work to stay sound and bringing them back each spring gets harder and harder.
-Trailer to an indoor. Like you said this can be challenging to maintain and you have to deal with riding with who knows how many people. Personally I don’t think it’s worth it, if you can not ride in between haul ins.
-Board their horse at an arena in the winter and keep it at home in the summer.
This works well for some people but depends on the area. Here a lot of the barns are full all year and will not have a spot for a part time boarder. This can be a good solution though if you can find a barn to accomodate you.

Building an arena is expensive but expense can be mitigated. I do not think building a tiny little indoor or round pen is worth it. I know some people who have a round pen sized indoor and it’s just not worth it for them to ride in it so it barely gets used. I would not build an indoor that is not attched to a barn. I would not build one unless I could afford half decent footing. Again, depends what is important to you.

Utilities are very expensive, be prepared for the cost of running it in addition to the cost of building.

[winter]

PS, I just read your post about your ‘wants’. In a cold climate I think free choice stalls to pasture are a very bad idea. In fact I don’t get it in any climate. Too much wear and tear on your barn plus drafty and hard to maintain the entrances. Barns with attached turn outs always look junky and run down.

You’re better off with good run in sheds.

[horsetales]

We have a 60 x 120 indoor. It does serve dual purpose as turn-out area when needed because of weather and riding arena.

Ours is a barn/indoor combo with the arena opening to the aisle and stalls on the outside wall (still a work in progress here) http://s7.photobucket.com/user/horsetales/media/PIC_4159.jpg.html?sort=6&o=214
http://s7.photobucket.com/user/horsetales/media/PIC_3852.jpg.html?sort=6&o=378

It is worth it to us. I doubt you’ll regret it. Build it to the max size you can afford. Our is the minimum size I would want and wish we could have afforded 80 x 140. But when it’s only you and maybe a friend, it’s a very workable size.

Do be prepared for people to ask to use it. Be careful being “nice” - your insurance may not cover you if something happens.

Feel free to PM me and I’ll answer any specifics.

[2DogsFarm]

[QUOTE=winter;7389449]
PS, I just read your post about your ‘wants’. In a cold climate I think free choice stalls to pasture are a very bad idea. In fact I don’t get it in any climate. Too much wear and tear on your barn plus drafty and hard to maintain the entrances. Barns with attached turn outs always look junky and run down.[/QUOTE]

I beg to differ

After 10yrs of use by 2 sets of geldings my free-access arrangement is working out great.
No discernible wear & tear on my barn or stalls and allowing horses to exercise as they choose has kept them sound.
I am in the (now)frigid Midwest and I can literally count on one hand the number of times I’ve closed the Dutch doors that lead from the stalls to the sacrifice paddock (& that opens to pasture on either side) if you don’t count once every 6-8 weeks for the shoer & twice a year for vet visits.

My first 2 often used to share a stall.
Stalls are 12X12 and these 2 were a 16H TB & 17h TWH.
My current 2 - Hackney Pony & 17h+ WB - don’t share, but often play Musical Stalls and no problems with that either.

As for “looking junky” I have been complimented by professionals: vet, shoer & trainers on the appearance of my place.
It is hardly over-the-top fancy, but plain & workmanlike and easily kept clean.