Cold Weather Turnout on Green Grass

[PaddockWood]

I think this thread will apply to many of us. I don’t see pastures turning brown in the winter. That happened years ago but not anymore. Pastures around here are KY Bluegrass, Fescue and Clover. So, as the days get cold at night (30F or under) and then move up to 50F during the day, are we really at risk turning out our metabolic/PPID/insulin dysregulation/Cushings horses?

AND, when you’ve got them on Prascend and recent insulin/ACTH results show everything within normal ranges AND you are muzzling…can you turnout with LITTLE risk?

[luvmyhackney]

From my understanding sugar is highest when temps drop below 40 F. During the winter I turnout with a muzzle for 4-5 hours a day, otherwise my pony goes in a dry lot. He doesn’t eat with a muzzle but gets his morning zoomies out.

I’m not chancing it as he is doing so well and founder is not something I even want to chance.

[Garythesquirrel]

I wouldn’t risk it, not worth it. I don’t turn out if temperatures got below 40 within the past 24 hours.

[beowulf]

This really depends on your horse, your region, and what your management style is. This is really a question for your vet, IMHO.

It’s not the frost (and the absence of frost once it melts) that makes the grass problematic; it’s the cold stress. The grass is still as bad NSC-wise midmorning as it was at 5 AM when it had frost tips.

Horses evolved in climates where it regularly dipped below 40F in the winter, and they did have to find forage in that weather – so they did eat stressed and frozen grass. The high NSC content in these grasses was likely mitigated in some way by their non-sedentary lifestyle (contrast with modern day horse in modern day boarding barn).

It’s a bit different when your horse is stalled half the time, and PPID/metabolic/laminitic, and you are worrying about NSC content.

I am not going to be the guy that says “it’s totally fine, do it”, it really depends on the horse. My Cushings horse is out 24/7 with half his time being on a dirt lot and the other half being out on grass… Including in the winter. I actually noticed a change for the worse when we pulled him off of grass in the fall a few years back for similar concerns, so we went back to giving him full grass access. He is still fat and happy and insulin/ACTH results are WNL for him with this management.

[B-burg_Dressage]

My chunky monkey gets the most limited grass during the spring and fall. However, right now I’m still turning him out on grass almost 12 hours (with grazing muzzle). I just leave the grazing muzzle on and don’t move up from that amount until the grass is truly dormant/brown.

My vet actually posted something about this last fall when we had an early snow. Grass was still very green and she cautioned to not pull grazing muzzles yet.

[JB]

how much grass is there?

Are both insulin and glucose in normal ranges?

[MorganMaresVT]

The temps you laid out (below 40*F overnight, up into the 50s during the day) are the real “danger zone” for my Cushings/IR mare. This sentence describes her exactly

when you’ve got them on Prascend and recent insulin/ACTH results show everything within normal ranges AND you are muzzling

(She also has InsulinWise in her diet as part of her treatment, keeping the insulin/ACTH numbers in check.)

But I can’t imagine a world where she’s ever turned out with little risk. She gets a few muzzled early morning hours on grass and is primarily in a dry lot with hay nets. I watch her like a hawk all fall and any indication that she’s even slightly ouchy after being on pasture, we stop. Fall is much worse for her metabolically than spring.

I don’t think there’s a one size fits all answer to your question, since these metabolic horses all respond to local conditions differently. It’s interesting to read through these responses. I wish there was a formula that could help us make decisions about their management, and not have to rely on trial and error that may leave the horse in pain, even with the best of intentions. At least here in Vermont, the grass will eventually die off and I won’t be as obsessed with turnout conditions. It is definitely a stressful problem to have.

[PaddockWood]

Thank you for all the replies and I hope this discussion helps others too. @JB Glucose wasn’t tested - just insulin and ACTH and both normal. Grass is 6-8" and lots of it. My understanding was not to mow short - would make the sugars higher.

[JB]

Ok, as long as insulin was normal, that should be fine.

Mowing regularly during active growth helps keep sugars down, but if it’s not growing, then yes, mowing will just concentrate the sugars

[PaddockWood]

@beowulf I agree it is vet question and brought up the subject but they were not aware of temperatures affecting sugar.

@JB But we would say too that never mow shorter than 6" right?

[JB]

@PaddockWood

@JB But we would say too that never mow shorter than 6" right?

that depends a lot on what type of grass it is. I don’t know any grazing grasses where 6" is recommended as the lowest mowed height, rather, the 6-7" range (for taller grass species) is an optimal height at which you start grazing again
Best Management Practices (Rutgers NJAES)

Grazing Residue Height Matters (psu.edu)

[PaddockWood]

Growing in my pasture: Bluegrass, Fescue and Clover. Appreciate those articles. Where I got the height info was the Katy Watts research. If our goal is to lower sugar…we keep the grass a wee bit higher right?

And here’s an article I found regarding mowing height and sugar levels:

Regular pasture mowing has potential to reduce laminitis risk for horses,...

[JB]

It still comes down to the type of grass, cool season vs warm season. They store sugars in different places. I really, really wish I could find the article that was a simplified version of which grasses store sugars where and under what conditions. I just can’t remember which does what when

The article is summarizing what I mentioned earlier - mowing helps reduce sugars which helps keep insulin lower. I see where you get the 6" from (15cm is 5.9"). I don’t take that to mean that’s the best height to mow fescue (and it wouldn’t necessarily be a good height for a warm season grass). It’s just the height they mowed to before grazing (to compare to the taller pasture for the other group)

That said, I did find references to keeping grass 6-8" for minimizing weed growth, but that’s also not (only) about grass health. I can’t find the info I’m looking for on lowest mowing height for different grasses, other than the 2 I posted earlier, which are minimums

[PaddockWood]

@MorganMaresVT Thanks for your thoughts and about your mare. I came back to read this thread again because my horses are throwing a tantrum not getting turned out. I just exercised them and that helps but geesh. If only we could talk and they could understand the risk.