collar choices and pulling issues with 7 month GSD

[jherold]

We are coming along nicely with our loose leash walking on a plain buckle collar. However, occassionally, he sees something that is very interesting and suddenly pulls and he’s getting stronger than me. So, I thought I’ll add a harness with the ring on the chest strap with a second leash so I have extra control for those moments.

However, we started nose work class yesterday and the instructor mentioned that they don’t correct the dogs for pulling into the scent. Since I’d like to be able to walk him with just a buckly collar, I obviously don’t want to teach him that it’s ok to pull in the collar. I have an old tracking harness with the buckle on the back (not on the chest). My question is, will he understand the difference between the two harnesses?

Another alternative is to use something else as my safety, don’t pull mom off her feet, line. My last shepherd hated Halti’s and I’ve heard that they can cause neck issues with exuberant dogs. In the past, I’d have just added a chain choke collar for walks, but those are frowned upon now. Any suggestions?

[cnigh]

Yes, he will come to understand the difference between the working harness and a regular collar.

For pulling I would work with him when he does it. Correct the behavior and reward when he listens.

My big girl walks better on a harness. She can get out of any collar.

[jherold]

Ah, but will he understand the difference between the 2 types of harnesses?

We are working on it, but very occassionally, something will catch me off guard or it’s something that at this point in his very teenage boy brain is way more interesting that the treats in my hand.

[CindyB59]

Frown or not, I use a choke chain. I’ve done obed for over 30 years, so know how to use it correctly. Although my 9 mo old GSD knows not to pull, if he’s in his flat collar he will. Honestly, once they know not to pull in it - nobody will even notice it’s on.

I tripped over mine going into a show in January & shattered my foot. Did nothing with him for well over 2 months. He was a complete pill when I took him out. Found an empty aisle & had a come to Jesus reminder of his manners & he was fine after that. I can’t imagine having had him on his flat collar.

[Foxtrot_s]

Your dog is just 7 months old - just a lad yet. I think they do learn the difference in ‘tack’, harness or collar. If you are consistent.

[pezk]

How about a plain old prong collar fitted correctly. Works wonders.
I use to teach my dogs to track yrs ago. They wanted the dog to pull into the harness. Every tracking instructor I ever meant would be horrified if you corrected the dog for pulling while in the harness. Thats a good way to destroy the dogs willingness to take a scent.
a buckle collar wont do it for obedience work for a young dog. Get a prong.

[corgif]

Not sure if this will work with a large dog like a GSD, but it did with my corgi (PWC) who used to pull like a freight train. Every time he pulled, I would stop and not move forward until he released the pressure on my hand. In my mind I pretend I’m a horse, and my leash hand is a very sensitive mouth.

Once he released pressure, I’d praise him and walk forward. If he pulled again, even for a step, I stopped again. No jerking, no speaking, no eye contact, I just stopped and stood until he released pressure. Wash-rinse-repeat about 100,000 times

This took LOTS of patience and lots of time and sometimes meant that I couldn’t get where I wanted as fast as I wanted, because we had to keep stopping SO many times.

Eventually he figured it out, however, every now and then he’ll get excited about something and want to pull. I just stop, for however many times it takes, and then he remembers “oh yeah, pulling makes mom stop”. Now he navigates like a well-trained horse, and it’s a pleasure that he’s so light in my hand now. We also do nose work, and he understands that pulling in the harness is fine but pulling in the collar is not.

[Kyrabee]

My friend was having pulling issues with her GSD puppy. Fine at home but a bit of sensory overload once she started taking her out at 4 months. Her trainer recommended a fine pinch collar…not the usual inch sized links with large prongs. Her is about 1/4 to 3/8 inches wide with small “teeth” Totally different dog and very obedient with next to no corrections. Puppy is very aware what equipment she has on. Friend has trained several dogs in obedience and knows how to use it correctly.

Susan

[corgif]

Prong/pinch collars are not allowed on AKC showgrounds period. That’s why I had to train the long slow way I described above. He’d be a perfect angel in a pinch collar but returned to pulling the minute it wasn’t on. While I agree these can be a useful tools in educated hands, to the general public (some who may be of the rabid animal rights persuasion) they look cruel and may lead to some unwanted attention.

[jherold]

I do the Karen McConnell method of “heeling.” If he pulls forward, I do a 180 and go the opposite direction. Mix it up with lots of turns along with lots of priaise. It’s working. But especially when we get to a new location he can be a bit rambunctious. I’d just like a bit of a safety net for the times when he sees another dog and I don’t and he catches me off guard. I may see if I have any old choke chains from my old obedience days. I’ve trained many dogs with them, so I know how to use them. There are times, like the time 5 deer ran within 20 feet of us, that no treat in the world is going to compete successfully with that distracton in a young dog.

[btswass]

I agree with the prong collar. I think its more effective than a choke collar and doesn’t strangle them

[Marshfield]

@pezk

a buckle collar wont do it for obedience work for a young dog. Get a prong.

Plenty of us have titled dogs in both rally and obedience, at a young age, even, without using anything other than a flat buckle collar. I clicker train “choose to heel” without a leash and simply add a leash in when that’s solid

[pezk]

@Marshfield

Plenty of us have titled dogs in both rally and obedience, at a young age, even, without using anything other than a flat buckle collar. I clicker train “choose to heel” without a leash and simply add a leash in when that’s solid

Im not going to get into an argument with you. Clicker training can be very useful, and productive. ive used it on my horse for teaching specific behaviors, like mounting from the mounting block or standing and waiting etc. and Ive used it on one of my dogs but Ive also used a prong as well as an ecollar. Sometimes temperament is the deciding factor.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Yes, I believe your dog can learn the difference between your “nosework” harness and some other type of collar (whichever you choose).

Yes, when you are working you do not want to leash check your dog. However, your dog needs to learn when you are working and when you aren’t. You use a specific harness (only for nosework) and your commands and working body language and verbiage need to be clear and consistent. Nosing for a scent isn’t when he feels like it, it’s when you’ve asked for it and only when you’ve asked for it. That also means that odors can persistent in a location far longer than we can imagine so you do need to be careful that he isn’t working an “old” hide (and that “old” can be hours or days old if you’ve asked him to work.

As for pinch/prong or chain collars or any other type of collar/harness… use what works for you and your dog, whether it is in vogue now or not

[Foxtrot_s]

I find the Halti to be more effective than choke or martingale. She is much lighter in that. Your dog is just a pup yet.
Does he have ‘lessons’ every day for consistency?

[Cat_Tap]

I find this all very interesting. I have tried everything but my boy insists on speed walking. If I stop he stops, if I turn 180 he stops but as soon as we go forward he gets strong again. He doesn’t pull if we speed walk. Of course if he sees something move and he catches me off guard I go flying. He is now 18 months old.

[jherold]

Just bought an Easy Sport harness to use for the nose work. It has a completely different feel than the nylon strap gentle leader harness with the chest ring. I plan to use the gentle leader harness will the buckle collar with a slightly longer leash. Kind of like having an emergency brake when the unplanned happens. I don’t like feeling like I’m water skiing behind my dog. We will see how it works. This shepherd is very, very soft and the physical correction of a choke or prong might be too much for him. Thanks for everyone’s suggestions.

Oh an Cat Tap, when I first started the 180’s we didn’t get more than 10 feet from the house. It was very frustrating, but he figured out pretty quick that pulling doesn’t get him where he wants to go. Now he just needs the occasional reminder, once the newness of the environment wears off and as long as I redirect him before he really makes eye contact with the distractions. He’s still a work in progress…

[S1969]

@Cat Tap

I find this all very interesting. I have tried everything but my boy insists on speed walking. If I stop he stops, if I turn 180 he stops but as soon as we go forward he gets strong again. He doesn’t pull if we speed walk. Of course if he sees something move and he catches me off guard I go flying. He is now 18 months old.

I think this depends a lot on the type of dog and other exercise it gets.

My breed is not big but they are athletic and the standard specifically looks for an “efficient, ground-covering” gait. The normal walking speed for my dog is much faster than my own. It is not normal for my dogs to walk at my walking speed, but it can be trained. I can heel my dogs on a lead but they are “working” when they do it.

All dogs can be trained to walk nicely on a loose lead, but many of them won’t do it naturally, and it is still “working” for them.

What I have found is that I cannot expect my dogs to work without giving them enough exercise. A walk on a 6’ lead is not exercise. Not even a little bit. You can use any kind of tool to help train them (prong collar, choke, E-collar, or do a 180) but you are still expecting your dog to be “working”. For many dogs that means that you have to be attentive to them for the entire walk, or they think they are done working and are at liberty. And sometimes that means they can only “work” for 5-10 minutes at a time without taking a break.

Every breed is different, but you can set yourself up for failure or frustration by expecting a young dog or an energetic breed to mosey along on a 6’ lead without a lot of training. And exercise, before or after the “walk” which doesn’t count.

FWIW, I have no objection to any of the tools mentioned. In the hands of a good trainer, they are all just tools. Everything can be abusive if used wrong, even (especially?) your voice.

[Foxtrot_s]

The technique for using these collars is timing - it is harder for some people to get it just right. I find a horse much easier - my dog wants to go ahead, and I have to focus on her all the time - or she walks ahead. She’s high energy and it is true, she needs a run first.

[Cat_Tap]

My dog is a Bouvier. They were originally bred to herd cattle and churn butter… They were used in WWI and WWII pulling carts including ambulances. Some Bouvier owners still teach them to pull carts today. A friend of mine who bred Bouvs used to sit in her cart and have her dog take her down the road. That is why a body harness does not work with them. The choke collar made him loose all the hair on his neck. The gentle leader gives me the most control but I don’t like the feel of it. I should also specify that we ware not working on our evening walk, it is his time to sniff and have a change of scenery.

I do let him loose in my indoor arena where he is allowed to rip around and get rid of some excess energy. He loves pulling my jump standards out of the corners. My outdoor dog run is in progress to give him more time and freedom out of the house. Unfortunately I cannot trust him loose outside as most of my previous dogs have been allowed.