Seramune study~ first paragraph sums it up
[QUOTE=wehrlegirl;5567141]
“do not presume…”
What else am I looking for then? How do I make the call… because it sounds like there may even be a chance for a reaction if I order colostrum from a supplier. If that was the case… is the paste a better call? Should I give something no matter what?
I also bought Vit. B12…[/QUOTE]
My first recommendation would be to take a deep breath!!! 
Remember that the vast majority of foals will not experience issues, so don’t presume that yours will simply because you are not putting every supplement and snake oil known to man into it!
Neonatal septicaemia signs can be found on the internet where there are plenty of good articles available (use University type or cited articles, as they tend to be more accurate). The two major indicators are temperature and foal “Joie de Vivre”. If the former rises and the latter subsides, you may have an issue - but that is beyond the scope of this post for the moment!
There are a variety of other products available beyond Seramune which have not been tested at all (and I address the Seramune research in a moment), so I would be leery of using them without a little more knowledge of them. As far as the B12 - if your mare was fed suitably during pregnancy and after, you shouldn’t have any issues there, so if there is no indication of a problem, I would indeed label that “overkill”.
Some may, some may not. In other words, unless you ask, you won’t know - and even then you may not know what the true condition of the colostrum is if there was no testing done. In all likelihood, you will not have a problem, as it would be unlikely that someone that has had a foal with NI would preserve colostrum from that mare, but it may well be worth at least asking…
[QUOTE=wehrlegirl;5567989]Seramune study~ first paragraph sums it up
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/aaep/1998/Vivrette.pdf[/QUOTE]
That’s rather a flat blanket statement, but hardly the end of the topic!
I commented previously: “Oral supplementation of commercial products has been shown to increase IgG levels in foals with low levels, but there is also research that suggests that a single supplementation may be inadequate to increase levels >800 mg/dl.” (I was referencing this research specifically). Further more Vivrette et. al. in that cited research (which was presented in 1998, so there has been additional work performed since then) commented:
"The results of this study indicate that, at the recommended dosage, Seramune is ineffective in raising plasma IgG concentrations above 800 mg/dl in foals that suckle mares with suboptimal colostrum… The efficacy of concentrated oral immunoglobulin products such as Seramune in the treatment of FPT in foals requires further investigation. In particular, the dose of Seramune required to increase plasma IgG concentrations to.800 mg/dl, and its usefulness in suboptimal management situations, in which an increased pathogenicity of bacteria increases the risk of neonatal infection, requires evaluation."
hence our (and other’s) recommendation that retesting take place with additional dosing if required! It does indeed appear that a single dose of Seramune may be inadequate to raise levels >800 mg/dl, so retesting and resupplementation with an additional dose seems the logical conclusion. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater and label Seramune “useless” too quickly!
Remember also that the sooner that IgG levels are raised and the gut wall closed, the earlier that protection is created. Some mare owners are in the unfortunate position of not being able to test as early as 9-12 hours, and have to rely on their veterinarian, who sometimes cannot arrive until 24-48 hours after foaling. Those foals are at risk of exposure to environmental pathogens for all of that period of time prior to the IgG levels being raised by plasma transfer - and that is not good! Interestingly, in the research by Vivette et. al. there was also a suggestion that the presentation of Seramune early, while at the manufacturer’s recommended dose, may not increase IgG levels adequately, it may cause an earlier close-down of the foal’s gut’s ability to absorb those large molecules, and that includes not only IgGs but also environmental pathogens, which is good. It has been seen that the earlier that colostrum is presented, the earlier that the gut closes, so the hypothesis by Vivette et. al. was that this mechanism triggered by the Seramune may have assisted in the limiting of NS in the research foals even though there was PFPT in them.
While there is no doubt that stored colostrum is the best substitute for the dam’s own colostrum (presuming the substitute to be healthy), in our opinion it is still worth considering the use of Seramune (with the above caveats as to increased dosage if required) as it will still work out cheaper than an IV plasma transfer, which is not only more expensive, but carries a certain amount of risk as well. Don’t get me wrong - a plasma transfer is an excellent treatment in the face of FPT, as it will almost certainly send IgG levels shooting sky high, but if it is not performed early, then there is that increased exposure risk factor to consider; and any time one runs IVs, there is always an additional risk factor with regard to reactions.
Hope this helps.
[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;5568387]
My first recommendation would be to take a deep breath!!!
Remember that the vast majority of foals will not experience issues, so don’t presume that yours will simply because you are not putting every supplement and snake oil known to man into it!
Neonatal septicaemia signs can be found on the internet where there are plenty of good articles available (use University type or cited articles, as they tend to be more accurate). The two major indicators are temperature and foal “Joie de Vivre”. If the former rises and the latter subsides, you may have an issue - but that is beyond the scope of this post for the moment!
There are a variety of other products available beyond Seramune which have not been tested at all (and I address the Seramune research in a moment), so I would be leery of using them without a little more knowledge of them. As far as the B12 - if your mare was fed suitably during pregnancy and after, you shouldn’t have any issues there, so if there is no indication of a problem, I would indeed label that “overkill”.
Some may, some may not. In other words, unless you ask, you won’t know - and even then you may not know what the true condition of the colostrum is if there was no testing done. In all likelihood, you will not have a problem, as it would be unlikely that someone that has had a foal with NI would preserve colostrum from that mare, but it may well be worth at least asking…
That’s rather a flat blanket statement, but hardly the end of the topic!
I commented previously: “Oral supplementation of commercial products has been shown to increase IgG levels in foals with low levels, but there is also research that suggests that a single supplementation may be inadequate to increase levels >800 mg/dl.” (I was referencing this research specifically). Further more Vivrette et. al. in that cited research (which was presented in 1998, so there has been additional work performed since then) commented: hence our (and other’s) recommendation that retesting take place with additional dosing if required! It does indeed appear that a single dose of Seramune may be inadequate to raise levels >800 mg/dl, so retesting and resupplementation with an additional dose seems the logical conclusion. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater and label Seramune “useless” too quickly!
Remember also that the sooner that IgG levels are raised and the gut wall closed, the earlier that protection is created. Some mare owners are in the unfortunate position of not being able to test as early as 9-12 hours, and have to rely on their veterinarian, who sometimes cannot arrive until 24-48 hours after foaling. Those foals are at risk of exposure to environmental pathogens for all of that period of time prior to the IgG levels being raised by plasma transfer - and that is not good! Interestingly, in the research by Vivette et. al. there was also a suggestion that the presentation of Seramune early, while at the manufacturer’s recommended dose, may not increase IgG levels adequately, it may cause an earlier close-down of the foal’s gut’s ability to absorb those large molecules, and that includes not only IgGs but also environmental pathogens, which is good. It has been seen that the earlier that colostrum is presented, the earlier that the gut closes, so the hypothesis by Vivette et. al. was that this mechanism triggered by the Seramune may have assisted in the limiting of NS in the research foals even though there was PFPT in them.
While there is no doubt that stored colostrum is the best substitute for the dam’s own colostrum (presuming the substitute to be healthy), in our opinion it is still worth considering the use of Seramune (with the above caveats as to increased dosage if required) as it will still work out cheaper than an IV plasma transfer, which is not only more expensive, but carries a certain amount of risk as well. Don’t get me wrong - a plasma transfer is an excellent treatment in the face of FPT, as it will almost certainly send IgG levels shooting sky high, but if it is not performed early, then there is that increased exposure risk factor to consider; and any time one runs IVs, there is always an additional risk factor with regard to reactions.
Hope this helps.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for your generosity in sharing your knowledge. Its so tempting to buy everything on the market just short of wrapping that baby in bubble wrap. Its nice to read words of wisdom during this time of year.
Thanks for posting that.
Interestingly enough, one foal I had received Seramune because of faulty colostrum in the mare. However her subsquent IgG at 24hrs of age was in the 500-600 area.
Vet suggested plasma, but I simply could not swing the costs then.
Foals was healthy and remained so till about 3-4 months of age, when I finally felt so guilty we did the plasma. I have no idea what worked, but the filly never had any sort of health issue or infection (even after she managed to cut a feltlock out in the pasture). To this day she has been super healthy, even after being sold and shipped across the country. She is now a hale and hearty 5 yr old.
So who knows…
[QUOTE=Callaway;5566934]
When I was going to an Ag college and taking repro courses, we tried several products. My experience was as yours, Kate–they are worthless. The breeding barn always had copious amounts of colostrum stored in their bank. The system was similar to Tasker’s. At home, I also have a small bank. I usually milk the same mare every year and freeze it. I know I can buy it from the Ag college (I teach there so I think that’s why, I’m not sure if they sell it to outside people), and also my vet clinic sells it (for a lot of money, though).
Just as a side note regarding products for foals and foaling and what works and what doesn’t–I tried the E. coli endotox last year. I had 2 colts (out of 3) that contracted an infection in their umbilical stump. I had it cultured, and the culprit was…E. coli! What a waste of money![/QUOTE]
If your colts survived, I would not consider this a waste of money. E-coli infection in young foals has a fairly high mortality rate. The manufacturer’s studies on this product do not claim a 0% rate of infection, but do show a 100% rate of survival.
I’m almost 100% sure (I’d have to look up the research and don’t have time right now) that the e.coli pastes are only labeled for preventing endotoxemia/diarrhea due to e.coli, not localized (as in the umbilicus) infections due to e.coli.
[QUOTE=Hillside H Ranch;5567923]
Seramune does not have antibodies against rhodococcus. Even the IV plasma that is ordinarily given to foals with failure of passive transfer does not contain rhodococcus antibodies. If you need to protect against rhodococcus you have to specifically buy hyper-immune rhodococcus plasma, which is a completely separate product from “regular” plasma.[/QUOTE]
Thanks Hillside. You can give the hyper-immune rhodococcus plasma in place of regular plasma if it’s called for or in addition to? I wonder how they make a version with the antibodies since they are reportedly no where close to making a vaccine.
My husband read somewhere that using cow colostrum in case of absolute emergency can be done (and he also said that many of the colostrum products on the market are bovine based)…anybody know the truth of this?
I’ve started banking mare colostrum but we also have a dairy farm so banking some cow colostrum would be super easy. Just cuious if it would be worth it.
[QUOTE=Hillside H Ranch;5569636]
I’m almost 100% sure (I’d have to look up the research and don’t have time right now) that the e.coli pastes are only labeled for preventing endotoxemia/diarrhea due to e.coli, not localized (as in the umbilicus) infections due to e.coli.[/QUOTE]
This is the product I used:
http://www.lambertvetsupply.com/Equine-Coli-Endotox-1-dose-x-10-ml--pr--060NOV0110
[QUOTE=tuckawayfarm;5569532]
If your colts survived, I would not consider this a waste of money. E-coli infection in young foals has a fairly high mortality rate. The manufacturer’s studies on this product do not claim a 0% rate of infection, but do show a 100% rate of survival.[/QUOTE]
Both colts survived. One had surgery to remove his umbilical stump and the other was hospitalized for a meconium impaction where he also contracted an infection. The second colt was successfully treated with chloremphenicol for a month or so, and did not need surgery.
It was a particularly wet, humid spring last year, which probably had something to do with it. I don’t think their survival had anything to do with the Endotox. I think it was because it was caught extremely early and treated aggressively.
[QUOTE=password;5570007]
Thanks Hillside. You can give the hyper-immune rhodococcus plasma in place of regular plasma if it’s called for or in addition to? I wonder how they make a version with the antibodies since they are reportedly no where close to making a vaccine.[/QUOTE]
You can give it alone, or in addtion to the regular plasma. The rhodococcus plasma is made by (or was oringally, I haven’t checked lately) by giving adult horses repeated parenteral doses of viable r. equi (rhodococcus).
[QUOTE=NorthHillFarm;5570027]
My husband read somewhere that using cow colostrum in case of absolute emergency can be done (and he also said that many of the colostrum products on the market are bovine based)…anybody know the truth of this?
I’ve started banking mare colostrum but we also have a dairy farm so banking some cow colostrum would be super easy. Just cuious if it would be worth it.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t hesitate to use it in a pinch. It won’t hurt anything. However, the antibodies are not as well absorbed, nor do they last as long. In addition, you obviously would not have antibodies to equine specific diseases.
Here is a little blurb:
Studies have tested bovine colostrum as an alternative to equine source
of Igs (Genin, 1990; Leblanc, 1991; Holmes et Lunn, 1991). Bovine colostrum is easy to collect but Igs are only moderately
well absorbed, rapidly catabolized and their half-life is only 7 days.
[QUOTE=Callaway;5570031]
This is the product I used:
http://www.lambertvetsupply.com/Equine-Coli-Endotox-1-dose-x-10-ml--pr--060NOV0110[/QUOTE]
Yes, that is a product that is labled to preven e.coli diarrhea and septicemia, which doesn’t neccessarily mean that it will prevent an umbilicus infection from e.coli. Also, generally these products (this particular one included) protect against only one type, or strain, of e. coli.
[QUOTE=Hillside H Ranch;5570037]
You can give it alone, or in addtion to the regular plasma. The rhodococcus plasma is made by (or was oringally, I haven’t checked lately) by giving adult horses repeated parenteral doses of viable r. equi (rhodococcus).[/QUOTE]
But there is nothing currently that we can give our mares, correct? Thanks!
As far as I know, Hagyard tests their colostrum for IgG and NI. I believe it must have an IgG over 1000 and be NI neg in order to be accepted into their colostrum bank.
[QUOTE=password;5570301]
But there is nothing currently that we can give our mares, correct? Thanks![/QUOTE]
Correct. There is no vaccine.
Thanks!
There are two reasons I had to resurrect this thread…
First, if you use non-equine milk products during the foal’s first day, you should not use plasma under any circumstances! It will kill the foal! (Source - Dr. Deborrah Harrison)
Second, my repro vet, Dr. Bill Ley is in dire need of frozen colostrum for a foal that was born via caesarian… You can reach him at 540-303-2336
I would appreciate any help you could provide.
Thank you!
Just to close the loop on this… Colostrum was found and the foal is doing well.
Thanks!
Superb!!!
