In my experience, they have been worthless. Always had to go to plasma for partial or full failure passive transfer regardless of when the Seramune was given.
But I’m curious what everyone else’s experience has been.
Why not just plan ahead and buy the real thing and have it shipped to you? I did. Yes, it was expensive, but it’s like an insurance policy IMO.
Similar thoughts.
Plasma in my opinion is the only way to go. When ever I have heard of people dragging their heels, fussing with products and not just paying for the vet to come and do a transfer in the ever shrinking window of time - the foal ultimately pays the price.
I always partially milk our mares when the foal and freeze about 8 oz. w/ the mare’s name, date and IgG results on the outside of the container. Each foal (the following year), gets 8 oz. as a standard ‘welcome to the world’ along with the usual enema, naval dunk, etc.
FWIW.
Some of the local vets know I have extra and I have given some away every year - provided I have more than I will need in the next season.
ah great, lovely to know… I was getting so nervous I bought three tubes yesterday. Back in the Saddle-- where did you buy the real thing? Might as well buy that too!
They overnighted it to me. 1 pint arrived unthawed but still very cold so it went straight back in the freezer. I was concerned that it unthawed but when i called they said it can be thawed and refrozen 3 times.
If they don’t have any, ask who else might. Rood and Riddle gave me their contact info along with another place. (can’t remember that name though)
When I was going to an Ag college and taking repro courses, we tried several products. My experience was as yours, Kate–they are worthless. The breeding barn always had copious amounts of colostrum stored in their bank. The system was similar to Tasker’s. At home, I also have a small bank. I usually milk the same mare every year and freeze it. I know I can buy it from the Ag college (I teach there so I think that’s why, I’m not sure if they sell it to outside people), and also my vet clinic sells it (for a lot of money, though).
Just as a side note regarding products for foals and foaling and what works and what doesn’t–I tried the E. coli endotox last year. I had 2 colts (out of 3) that contracted an infection in their umbilical stump. I had it cultured, and the culprit was…E. coli! What a waste of money!
wehrlegirl: ah great, lovely to know… I was getting so nervous I bought three tubes yesterday. Back in the Saddle-- where did you buy the real thing? Might as well buy that too!
Actually, it was your post in the other thread that got me thinking…do people still use that stuff? Has it changed? Does it work now?
I would take the three tubes back and get the pulling straps he talked you out of. When you need those, you NEED those and no hopping in the car to go pick up a couple.
I should do what Tasker does. Even though I know intellectually that mares that produce good colostrum make more than enough - I’ve always been queasy about it.
I always keep a “bank” of colostrum in the freezer from previous foalings~ Easy to do yourself, inexpensive (just the initial cost of an udderly ez milker) and invaluable in the event you (or someone else!) needs it!!!
Oral supplementation of commercial products has been shown to increase IgG levels in foals with low levels, but there is also research that suggests that a single supplementation may be inadequate to increase levels >800 mg/dl. Consequently, it has been our policy to initially evaluate the foal at about 9 hours post-foaling, and then retest 2 hours after supplementation if it was required. This timing allows a second oral supplementation to be achieved well prior to 15 hours post-foaling, by which time the foal’s ability to absorb large-molecule proteins such as IgGs through the gut wall has significantly decreased to about zero. Here is the time-line to explain our logic:
- 9 hours - draw blood and run test;
- By 10 hours - thawed or warmed supplement and completed giving it to the foal;
- 12 hours - draw blood and run second test;
- By 13 hours - thaw or warm second supplement and give to foal
Testing earlier does however raise the chances of a “low” result, so we look at results in context:
- If the foaling was without problems, the foal nursed well, the colostrum had good IgG levels, and the foal is bouncing around well, then if the levels are >600 mg/dl but <800 mg/dl (“partial FPT”), we will in all likelihood consider the levels a little low as a result of testing early and typically retest in an hour or two.
- If there were issues with foaling, colostral quality, foal nursing or condition and the levels are >600/<800 mg/dl then we will supplement immediately;
- If the levels are <400 mg/dl we will always supplement, no matter what else is seen, as that is a total FPT situation.
Hope this helps.
“do not presume that simply because IgG levels have been shown to be >800 mg/dl that the foal will not be a candidate for Neonatal Septicaemia. It can still happen, as the foal may not have received adequate (or any) antibodies against specific environmental pathogens it may encounter - this is of particular note if using colostrum obtained from another farm”~ from Kathy’s post…
What else am I looking for then? How do I make the call… because it sounds like there may even be a chance for a reaction if I order colostrum from a supplier. If that was the case… is the paste a better call? Should I give something no matter what?
I also bought Vit. B12 (probiotic for the mare as well in a tube form, though have been starting the powder for the last week.) Would you advice the use of that alongside colostrum or is that just overkill?
Ive never had to use any of these before…I just want to revise the foaling box that I have to make sure everything is covered.
that it is important that one must be sure that the donor mare does not have anti-RBC antibodies
How do you know? Mine was sent from Hagyard (link above). Do suppliers normally test for this?
[QUOTE=back in the saddle;5567160]
that it is important that one must be sure that the donor mare does not have anti-RBC antibodies [/QUOTE]
How do you know? Mine was sent from Hagyard (link above). Do suppliers normally test for this?
Abit of an aside, but I have used Seramune 2x with great results, but in both cases I had the vet out to drop an NG tube down the foals for administration.
The second time she said, “well, most people just give it orally”.
Well, good luck with THAT!! Stuff must taste awful, because my foal just kept spitting it out.
Hints? Ideas?
Is 8 oz enough? I seem to remember my vet quoting a higher amount.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5567216]
Abit of an aside, but I have used Seramune 2x with great results, but in both cases I had the vet out to drop an NG tube down the foals for administration.
The second time she said, “well, most people just give it orally”.
Well, good luck with THAT!! Stuff must taste awful, because my foal just kept spitting it out.
Hints? Ideas?
Is 8 oz enough? I seem to remember my vet quoting a higher amount.[/QUOTE]
I’ve never had luck with foals drinking Seramune, we always tube them. In all actuality though, we don’t keep use Seramune anymore (even though we generally had good luck with it). We rely strictly on our colostrum bank at this point, and of course plasma as needed.
8 oz. may be okay as a good start and precaution, but if the foal truly is not/did not receive enough colostrum from its dam then you need to plan on at least a pint of high-quality colostrum, and possibly more. We freeze ours in 1 pint quantities and if we use it they get the whole pint.
Thanks for this info Hillside – glad to know I’m not the Lone Ranger on this.
And using a ‘pint’ sounds about right…I remember my vet mentioning an amount that was far more that 8 oz, but had forgotten it.
So do you really think Seramune is useless? It pretty spendy if it’s not going to do much good.
The two times I used it, once it worked great…as I recall the other time we did have to go with plasma because we did not get the results we wanted with SM.
Ok - I was in a bit of a hurry this morning but here’s what I have done for ages -
- the mare is a non-maiden and has historically had foals w/ superb IgG’s.
- she doesn’t try to kick my head in for touching her bag. :winkgrin:
With those things in mind, I get a plastic party cup (cheap, sturdy enough), 1 35 cc syringe with the tip cut off and all plastic filings sanded off, 1 empty water bottle (plastic) that just has the water poured out - no one’s germy lips have been back washing into it! 
I take the cup in the stall while the foal is still down and the mare is just hanging out. Foal has already gotten an enema, naval dunk and is debating getting up. I then milk the mare by hand into the cup. When it’s about 1/2 full, I pour into the water bottle - repeat until the bottle is mostly full - then squish the air out a bit and write her name on the outside & the date. It goes in the freezer when I go back to my house.
Outside in a bucket with the wash hose tricking body temperature water in there is one of the ‘vintage’ bottles from the previous year. The water bath is the only way I’ve been told to thaw colostrum. Once it is completely thawed, I pour some into the plastic cup (re-using), draw it up in the syringe and then allow the foal to suck off the syringe. note - I am not forcing the foal to drink - they get the hang of it and generally get 90% of the bottles contents before they even are on the hunt on the mare for the milk bar. The 8 oz. is a conservative guesstimate as to how much is lost in the transfer from cup-syringe-foal who dribbles some out. Since the mares’ have historically had excellent colostrum (knocks wood furiously) I haven’t had problems doing it this way. We have had to tube 1 foal in the last 25 years that I can remember. One other foal had to get plasma but it had been ridiculously stubborn about finding the teats, rejected the offerings I had, so we just did plasma to be sure.
FWIW - that’s just what I do. I am too frugal to spend $$ on another single use item in the barn like a milker - it isn’t hard to do and more than likely I will have lost it when I need it most. :lol:
Regarding Seramune, I’ve always heard that it has antibodies against rhodococcus so we’ve used it even on foals with numbers over 800 just as an added bonus. However, my vet called the company and they did not confirm this so now we’re wondering if we’re just wasting money?
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5567598]
Thanks for this info Hillside – glad to know I’m not the Lone Ranger on this.
And using a ‘pint’ sounds about right…I remember my vet mentioning an amount that was far more that 8 oz, but had forgotten it.
So do you really think Seramune is useless? It pretty spendy if it’s not going to do much good.
The two times I used it, once it worked great…as I recall the other time we did have to go with plasma because we did not get the results we wanted with SM.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think Seramune is useless. The only reason we don’t keep it in stock anymore is because we ahve access to plenty of colostrum and if I had to choose between the two I’d go with the colostrum. However, it is a product that we reccomend to clients who don’t have access to colostrum.
[QUOTE=password;5567699]
Regarding Seramune, I’ve always heard that it has antibodies against rhodococcus so we’ve used it even on foals with numbers over 800 just as an added bonus. However, my vet called the company and they did not confirm this so now we’re wondering if we’re just wasting money?[/QUOTE]
Seramune does not have antibodies against rhodococcus. Even the IV plasma that is ordinarily given to foals with failure of passive transfer does not contain rhodococcus antibodies. If you need to protect against rhodococcus you have to specifically buy hyper-immune rhodococcus plasma, which is a completely separate product from “regular” plasma.
