Personally I LOVE the coloured TBs, and I do think that a GOOD breeder is capable of breeding for both function and colour, look at True Colour’s horses. When it comes to racing though, it is hard enough to breed a great runner, why complicate the issue by trying to add colour as well? Especially since there are no excellent coloured racers, so you would have to settle for less then perfect matches.
Just my $.02
LBR
I am very lucky that I do not have to accept less than perfect matches I do not have to worry about the colour from the sire, all we have to do is worry about the quaility of the mares that we use so far we have been lucky to have bred our foundation stock in the sexes and colours we wanted and now its down to luck and determination on the part of the horse.
Anyway you have only one life and if you can make something different than why not I am sure when Henry ford made his first car he also got heckled, but as I am the only woman in the UK to beat all the men at the british invention show and win gold I am willing to put my neck on the line and see if I can change history!
If I dont succeed then have hurt no body but we have some fun.
If we succeed we will one day see The gene Tobiano in the GSB.
everyone has to have a goal this is mine.
Henry Ford hated it when his lower-downs convinced him to make anything other than the Model T, and it PROFOUNDLY annoyed him that they wanted to make it available in any other color than black.
And they will never be in the studbook unless it spontaneous occurs in purebreds. They won’t admit pure Arab stock (the foundation of the breed) or Appendix “Quarter Horses” who are 99% genetic TBs, they’re not going to admit something with Ricco’s breeding, where there are “crossbreds” that dead-end in the 1970s. The stud book has been closed for over a century. They aren’t going to reopen it for horses because they want more pretty colors.
Couple of points…
Comparing Yukichan to those other horses is a bit silly. Yukichan is an incredibly well bred G2 winning filly. Her unusual colour however is incidental. She was not bred to be of a certain colour, she was bred to be a top class racehorse.
The other horses mentioned were bred for their colour, with the faint hope that they might be also able to also run. That is an arse backwards way to breed racehorses.
As to the idea that any of the TB studbooks are closed… as has been mentioned numerous times in the past, horses do gain entry into the studbooks after the fact based on pedigree and performance. One such horse was mentioned earlier in this thread… Clantime. He was a top notch G1 level sprinter in the 80’s. He was also not a registered TB. His offspring however, including G1 winners among them, are all registered TBs.
A horse does not have to be a registered TB to race in Europe (and most other jurisdictions for that matter), from the cheapest race all the way up to the Derby itself at Epsom. It is because of this very fact that US bred “half-breds” were able to display their prowess on the race course and put an end to the farce that was the Jersey Act, as technically they were not TBs. To this day non-TBs, eps French bred ones, race at the highest level. The likes of Hors la Loi, Lord Carmont, The Fellow etc are all mutiple G1 winners with bankrolls of $1m+, some in excess of $2m in earnings. That’s a damn good racehorse. Non of them are registered TBs.
[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;5420539]
Couple of points…
(Yes I agree wanted to show thats its not colour that is prohibtve to speed)
The other horses mentioned were bred for their colour, with the faint hope that they might be also able to also run. That is an arse backwards way to breed racehorses.
As to the idea that any of the TB studbooks are closed… as has been mentioned numerous times in the past, horses do gain entry into the studbooks after the fact based on pedigree and performance. One such horse was mentioned earlier in this thread… Clantime. He was a top notch G1 level sprinter in the 80’s. He was also not a registered TB. His offspring however, including G1 winners among them, are all registered TBs.
A horse does not have to be a registered TB to race in Europe (and most other jurisdictions for that matter), from the cheapest race all the way up to the Derby itself at Epsom. It is because of this very fact that US bred “half-breds” were able to display their prowess on the race course and put an end to the farce that was the Jersey Act, as technically they were not TBs. To this day non-TBs, eps French bred ones, race at the highest level. The likes of Hors la Loi, Lord Carmont, The Fellow etc are all mutiple G1 winners with bankrolls of $1m+, some in excess of $2m in earnings. That’s a damn good racehorse. Non of them are registered TBs.[/QUOTE]
I agree entirely with the above which is why I am breeding colour in so differently from everybody else in the UK and USA and the EU who only breed for colour with pure breds Our non coloured horses are just as capable of speed and doing a job Eventing pointing or flat
interestingly we have a Clantime mare here a winner of over $48,000 in foal to ricco due April.
I came on here to promote a FB page for all who would like to see more coloured racing I think that is happening Thank you.
“winner of over $48,000” isn’t exactly a stellar career. CANTER lists horses almost daily with impeccable breeding and winnings of far more than that.
Where she won, how many races did she run in, and what caliber of horses did she run against means a heck of a lot more.
Unusual colored horses racing isn’t new. As an example, Appaloosas and Paints race.
[QUOTE=Everythingbutwings;5420896]
“winner of over $48,000” isn’t exactly a stellar career. CANTER lists horses almost daily with impeccable breeding and winnings of far more than that.
.[/QUOTE]
Lucky won about $95,000 US in his career sticking with claimings and allowances. He was considered a low-level racehorse but a success in that he wasn’t a complete wash.
Again, IF you can breed horses who can WIN, no one will care what color they are. But if you breed for color, in the faint hope they might also be able to run, you’re doing it backwards. And if you’re breeding for flat racing, who cares if they can event? Show careers are where you send washouts. If you’re breeding for racing, no one wants to hear he turned out a three-day horse unless they’re planning to geld it and sell it to a show home when it’s done. When he has successful racing get (and whoever won $48,000, again, is on par with an okay low-grade claimer here unless that was hitting the board in two graded/group races, in which case it’s still not much but at least good company) that’s what you brag about.
If your grade stallion gets offspring, colored or boring bay, who can win serious money racing and they’ll let just anything run so they can prove it where it matters, people will want to breed race mares to him for racing offspring. If he can’t, no one cares if he produces pretty colors or not. And in the US, they wouldn’t be acceptable to anyone but sport breeders or possibly the paint racers (I don’t know what breeding you have to have to be acceptable to their registry–one of the two paint vs. pinto, only cares what they look like, the other has rules about what they can be related to and I’m never sure which was which. It’s very, very hard to believe someone who says color is their priority is going about it the right way, though.
If he could win at 1 1/4 on dirt or at 1 1/2 on grass against graded company, I’d buy offspring if they were pink with purple polka dots and built like a mule, provided they could be registered and raced here. But admitting mutts to the registry strictly to have something that looks like a pinto seems counter to the entire purpose of HAVING a registry. Why not get rid of all papers and just race whatever, show whatever. What next, gaited?
And I looked up Clantime–I see one blank spot on Brisnet for a horse bred in the 1920s (ie nearly a hundred years, yes, really) five gen back and that’s filled in on pedigreequery (fwiw). That’s hardly comparable to a sport horse with a grandparent of unknown origins, especially now it’s a lot easier to prove breeding if someone wanted to argue a horse was an unpapered TB–pull DNA. If they’re bred in the last twenty years, shows up easily enough.
I am really not that interested in any 4 or againsts arguments, I am here to help others with racehorses and I am not here to justifiy myself my programme or how I breed horses
Edited 4.30 GMT
I guess you all got a First class honors degree in being nice!I would like to thank everyone who has added support to this thread, and wish you all the very best with your horses Goodbye.
You’re not helping, you’re advertising.
Pinto=spotted: tobiano, overo or sabino or a combination, such as tovero. Composition of breed does not matter.
Paint, as in APHA (American Paint Horse Association) must be from papered parents: Jockey Club, AQHA (including X- or Appendix registered AQHA) or APHA, with a pinto coat coloration (tobiano, overo, sabino, tovero)
Before the Quarter Horse rule change (in 05 or 06) which now allows registration of AQHA horses with ‘too much white’, such as high stockings/bald face, belly spot, etc or a double dilute (perlino, cremello) the APHA would register horses with two AQHA parents, or horses with two TB parents.
Now that ‘crop-out’ (pinto-pattern) AQHAs can be registered in the AQHA, the requirements for APHA papers are that a foal must have one APHA parent, the other may be AQHA or TB. (Pure TB, such as Painting Freedom, or pure AQHA colored horses born before 2005 have their ‘regular’ APHA papers and as such are grandfathered in as the ‘one APHA parent’ rule.)
A horse must be colored to participate in most of the APHA activities (breed shows, racing). There is a spot (pun intended) for the solid ones, registered as ‘breeding stock’ in open competition- such as dressage, eventing, hunter/jumper, cutting, reining, working cow-horse, barrel racing, rodeo, team roping, etc.
[QUOTE=danceronice;5412938]
Why would anyone breed to a stallion who just turned out eventers and was event bred for racing?
I agree with Brenda, I don’t see the point. It comes out whatever color it comes out, and as long as it can run, I don’t care if it looks like its legs are on backwards and it’s purple.
I see looking at your site (though the bad grammar makes it VERY hard to read) they’re not even thoroughbreds anyway, so you aren’t breeding colored thoroughbreds in any case. They’re sport horses and while it’s nice the UK has circuits that allow off breeds, they’re not thoroughbreds and wouldn’t have any value to the two major flat-racing registries in the US (JC and AQHA, the latter not just because of their crossbred status but because they have color restrictions). Though if they could be registered as Paints (I don’t know what the requirements are for the APHA) they could race in those events, but they’re pretty much the bottom of the flat-racing market. But really, they’d only be of interest over here to sport breeders who produce for sport performance and color. People with JC thoroughbreds or appendix QHs wouldn’t be interested because the offspring’s not registerable.[/QUOTE]
I think racing in the UK and racing in the USA are two very different beasts. 
The OP breeds quality horses who can go on to another job after racing. They just happen to be coloured.
We have a bay sabino mare we are looking to place. You can list her if you want. She is pictured at the bottom of the page here -http://tbbroodmares.com/HorseListings.aspx (She’s Savanna.)
l ooks like she got her a little sister… http://youtu.be/dfCFCymZUf4
love how that race starts out on grass for about the first furlong
and then switches to dirt.
Hop on over to some UK websites and look at purses. 48k in American standards is not great, in the UK not so bad. As a matter of fact I have zero idea why anyone would own a racehorse over here as there is zero money to be earned if you’re a bread and butter type horse that actually keeps racing going. Any decent money is reserved for the good races. You can make more money with an average claimer in the states than you can with an average or decent handicapper over here.
More money for NH racing than flat in terms of everyday races. More money in Ireland but much less racing so getting balloted out over and over is the moan here.
Terri
Yes I saw Yukichans little sister, wow she seems to have what it takes, Terri Rummys back in to NH training in January 2012 he is such a power house now I think hes grown so much during his summer holidays.
A frame overo 1st foal went through tatts sales for £11K the breeder is the current owner of I Was Framed, whos now in france, his breeder bought a full brother to our stallion this March.
She is quiet some breeder having bred Previs a Multipal group one winner.
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