Colvin Civil Suit

[DoubleTwistedWire]

@ynl063w;8306517

Less than a minute on google shows that the honorary degree was presented to her for her time volunteering after September 11th at the World Trade Center working for the Medical Examiner’s Office. She was head chaplain for the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner of New York City and lead the multifaith chaplaincy team at Ground Zero. This was before her husband died; before she inherited his money.

Sorry, it doesn’t matter what great and wonderful things the honorary degree was awarded for, it’s honorary. It’s not meant to be used as a daily title the way a physician or a dentist or a vet or even an actual doctor of divinity would get to use it. Hell, a JD is more entitled to use it than she is, and I’ve never ever heard one refer to themselves as such! People were up in arms years ago for Sheila Johnson doing the same thing, and eventually she stopped using it, and it hadn’t seemed to hurt her business.

It is relevant here because it’s just another layer of dishonesty. Along with the nine tubes of PP and the GABA and the “who’s the trainer?” game.

[Midge]

[QUOTE=mvp;8306537]
Hmm. I thought I read in Parker’s biography that she made a $1M or $2M donation to Suny Morrisville.

I admitted all of it is off-topic from the outset so no need to wade into that backwater just to get pissed off about someone going OT. Just avoid it if you wish.

I didn’t know the rest about Parker. And all of it-- good, bad, honorific, ugly-- was always irrelevant to this discussion.

OK now, for realz, y’all can get this thread back On Topic.[/QUOTE]

I thought she had a ‘real’ doctorate and it was from Harvard. I could be wrong.

[vineyridge]

BP is a trained and ordained Christian minister who doesn’t seem to be proactive against horse drugging. Where are her morals? It’s very telling that as a hunter/equitation owner she has bought into the Prep wagon. If she, with her training, doesn’t think it’s wrong, then why would anyone else?

[TBLover]

She has a Masters of Divinity from Harvard. Which is great, and entitles her to use the title of Reverend, which she should be proud of. Why someone like her would want to cheapen that accomplishment by using a title that she had not really earned is beyond me.

[Go_Fish]

@snaffle1987;8306673

How are fellow competitors not absolutely outraged. I get it; there are a lot of competitors doing the same thing but for those out there playing by the rules who have to compete against this; Why on earth do you keep showing when you have to deal with this?

Because I have 3 horses that don’t need it. And, I suspect that many of the horses being given stuff like Perfect Prep don’t need it either, but trainers are “covering the bases” and think “everybody else is doing it, so I’d better do it, too.” Let’s face it, most trainers aren’t the brightest bulbs, seriously…they are not problem solvers. They can ride, truly, but put them in the real world and ask them to make a living, they wouldn’t last a day.

I have one horse that can be a difficult ride. But Perfect Prep isn’t going to help her one bit in dealing with her problems. She needs an absolutely accurate ride to the jump or she’ll start to get rather pissy. I’m sure that there a lot of trainers out there that think a couple of tubes of Perfect Prep would solve the problem. Uh, no.

[Romany]

I’m no expert, so a lot of the - to me - peculiar behaviors exhibited by various parties involved in this debacle made me go look up the definition of narcissism; and the definition was quite enlightening:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20025568

[DMK]

Yes, if you have a masters in Divinity from Harvard, and you’ve worked at ground zero as she has… you’ve accomplished a lot in this world, you have done more than most and should be justifiably be proud of your accomplishments. But if you go around touting an honorary degree and generally behave as if you might cease to exist if you don’t show up in a win picture every 5 minutes or so, it’s possible people may speculate that at best, you are a deeply insecure person. If you add a whiff of “win at all costs” on top of that… well, that may not make for a likable persona.

And the saddest thing of all is the regular legal* program as admitted in the transcript is probably not uncommon and almost certainly not restricted to Inclusive. Or Parker owned horses. Or SS/KB trained horses. I wonder how “calming” #9tubapalooza actually is? Or do 9 doses or tubes of some combination of lactanase/PP just make a horse feel really crappy? And horses who feel crappy rarely feel like playing in the corners. If there’s truth to the whole oxytocin discussion at the USEF hearings a few years back, feeling crappy is the new carolina gold.

• legal in the sense that although admittedly used for a purpose (calming) that would make it against the regs, it does not result in a verifiable, positive test result.

[Tony]

A lot of posts here mentioning Perfect Prep , as if that’s the charge. The calming ingredients in PP are no different then in calming supplements. The charge is not for using PP, they would be saintly if that were it. Big difference from oral PP and injecting GABA or injecting Mag etc…

[Single_Oxer]

I would just like to point out in regards to the Upperville discussion that splitting the divisions/how they are split is up to the show management (The exception is the 3’3 juniors, I believe they have a mandatory split once the division reaches a certain number?). NOBODY should/does show up to a horse show with the expectation that the divisions will be split in their favor and they surely don’t pick and choose horse shows based on how the divisions are split. I’m a younger amateur in a zone where our older group rides circles around us. Sometimes we show together, sometimes we don’t. To suggest that people were outraged by a california split is a SERIOUS reach.

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=snaffle1987;8306673]
I think everyone is missing part of the bigger picture here. Yes they got caught drugging one of their more well known horses. But if you read the hearing in it’s entirety; BP’s trusted crew openly admitted to giving perfect prep paste to the horses and then openly admitted their reasoning for doing so. Along the lines of: to alter behavior to increase the chances of winning. How are fellow competitors not absolutely outraged.[/QUOTE]

This was actually discussed quite some time ago in this thread. Perhaps you missed it?

In a odd coincidence, the tack shop I work for just got some Lactanase in. The transcript is the first I ever heard of it and then it shows up a 2 days later? Wow. We did not order it, but the supplier added it to our order as a freebie).

I read the dosage and it’s no more than one dose a day. For heavy stress days, you are supposed to give 1 pack the day before and then follow up with another about 3 hours before performance. Regular dose is 1/2 pack a day during heavy work (after a very brief loading dose).

So, Inclusive’s program is about 7 tubes over the “off labe” line of the products they are using and they admitted to using this program for calming. Nice…and by nice, I mean the opposite.

[MintHillFarm]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8306704]
I was under the impression that Betsee Parker had a doctor of divinity degree? So apparently that isn’t the case?

Well, then she absolutely shouldn’t be using the title “Dr.” at all this stuff is true about it just being an honorary degree.[/QUOTE]

And I thought I had read several times that she is a Pediatrician?

[hb]

@ynl063w;8306517

What have all of you done?

I can tell you what I haven’t done.

I have not lied, cheated and drugged a horse to get a pretty little ribbon and a picture in the winner’s circle. (I’m assuming the Reverend Dr. Parker has enough money that the prize money won is incidental and it’s about just winning itself)

I haven’t put myself out as a spiritual leader while having such questionable morals.

I’ve worked hard for every degree I have, and I do not use them outside of professional context.

These issues are not off topic. They relate to the state of hunter showing and who these people are who cheat, lie and drug horses. Using the “Dr.” title is just a piece of the facade, but it’s important to see that there is a facade.

Volunteering at Ground Zero and donating money to causes does not make the lying, cheating and drugging okay.

If I had the money she does and then found that all the nice horses, best trainers, best riders that I could buy did not result in meeting the judging standards, I’d start campaigning for more realistic judging standards that sober, probably very pricey but still SOBER, horses could meet.

It will take the people with money who fund the sport insisting on change before change will happen. Or an animal welfare organization publicizing the issues and threatening the continuation of the sport. Small-time folks like us complaining won’t change a thing, we don’t have enough money or leverage to matter to those at the top. And the people at the top don’t seem to care enough, they just lie, cheat and drug away…

[EAY]

[QUOTE=Single Oxer;8307138]
I would just like to point out in regards to the Upperville discussion that splitting the divisions/how they are split is up to the show management (The exception is the 3’3 juniors, I believe they have a mandatory split once the division reaches a certain number?). NOBODY should/does show up to a horse show with the expectation that the divisions will be split in their favor and they surely don’t pick and choose horse shows based on how the divisions are split. I’m a younger amateur in a zone where our older group rides circles around us. Sometimes we show together, sometimes we don’t. To suggest that people were outraged by a california split is a SERIOUS reach.[/QUOTE]

It clearly stated in the prize list that the 3’6 large juniors were split by age, so if there were enough entries to fill each section (6?), then it should have been split that way. If there were not enough for each age group, then a California split might make sense if entries were large enough. In this case there were only 15. I believe Supernatural brought it up because the way the division was split, Way Cool and Inclusive did not have to compete against each other.

[EAY]

[QUOTE=Single Oxer;8307138]
I would just like to point out in regards to the Upperville discussion that splitting the divisions/how they are split is up to the show management (The exception is the 3’3 juniors, I believe they have a mandatory split once the division reaches a certain number?). NOBODY should/does show up to a horse show with the expectation that the divisions will be split in their favor and they surely don’t pick and choose horse shows based on how the divisions are split. I’m a younger amateur in a zone where our older group rides circles around us. Sometimes we show together, sometimes we don’t. To suggest that people were outraged by a california split is a SERIOUS reach.[/QUOTE]

It clearly stated in the prize list that the 3’6 large juniors were split by age, so if there were enough entries to fill each section (6?), then it should have been split that way. If there were not enough for each age group, then a California split might make sense if entries were large enough. In this case there were only 15. I believe Supernatural brought it up because the way the division was split, Way Cool and Inclusive did not have to compete against each other.

[inca]

[QUOTE=EAY;8307221]
I believe Supernatural brought it up because the way the division was split, Way Cool and Inclusive did not have to compete against each other.[/QUOTE]

Ah, NOW I understand what the fuss is about and that does seem a little, um, suspicious…catering to the “big wigs” and NOT following the prize list???

[Single_Oxer]

Not sure if this has been answered/discussed yet but: If you read about Lactanase it is actually a compound of a few different things (Vitamins etc, I’m not familiar with all of them). Thiamine (Basically B1) is the ingredient that stuck out to me the most. It is used to release lactic acid in the muscles that build up over the course of a workout. It also has an effect on how the nerves transmit signals. So it releases the lactic acid in the muscles giving a horse physical relief and it also “calms nerves” so to speak and makes horses less reactive. Thiamine is usually given as a supplement course over a few days and then ramped up on days where a horse would be more active. Very helpful if you have one coming back off of an injury, horse will more than likely be muscle sore/fresh the first few weeks it is worked. Horses can have a thiamine deficiency because it is a naturally occurring substance, this might also complicate the testing process. Thiamine also can have a relatively immediate response if given at a high dose (Usually a few hours out) and is metabolized quickly as well since the excess that the body doesn’t need just gets processed by the liver and passes through urine. This would also present a problem for testing because the level found in a horse while it is actively in the show ring can vary quite drastically from what can be traced even 45 minutes later.

If someone already answered the question then just ignore this whole post

[ybiaw]

I have to derail just for a quick second and say that the depth of knowledge on COTH never ceases to amaze me.

[Single_Oxer]

[QUOTE=EAY;8307221]
It clearly stated in the prize list that the 3’6 large juniors were split by age, so if there were enough entries to fill each section (6?), then it should have been split that way. If there were not enough for each age group, then a California split might make sense if entries were large enough. In this case there were only 15. I believe Supernatural brought it up because the way the division was split, Way Cool and Inclusive did not have to compete against each other.[/QUOTE]

Once again that seems like a serious reach, you are basically implying that the show management, judges, and BP were all conspiring together to make sure that Inclusive and Way Cool did not compete against each other even though they have done so at almost every show in recent history. Prize lists generally have divisions split by age BUT in the event that the show management does not want to run the division that way (Lots of factors involved in this, time, resources, just to name a few) they have the discretion to change that, and they do it often. Not just when Tori Colvin is riding…

[Limerick]

[QUOTE=Single Oxer;8307251]
Not sure if this has been answered/discussed yet but: If you read about Lactanase it is actually a compound of a few different things (Vitamins etc, I’m not familiar with all of them). Thiamine (Basically B1) is the ingredient that stuck out to me the most. It is used to release lactic acid in the muscles that build up over the course of a workout. It also has an effect on how the nerves transmit signals. So it releases the lactic acid in the muscles giving a horse physical relief and it also “calms nerves” so to speak and makes horses less reactive. Thiamine is usually given as a supplement course over a few days and then ramped up on days where a horse would be more active. Very helpful if you have one coming back off of an injury, horse will more than likely be muscle sore/fresh the first few weeks it is worked. Horses can have a thiamine deficiency because it is a naturally occurring substance, this might also complicate the testing process. Thiamine also can have a relatively immediate response if given at a high dose (Usually a few hours out) and is metabolized quickly as well since the excess that the body doesn’t need just gets processed by the liver and passes through urine. This would also present a problem for testing because the level found in a horse while it is actively in the show ring can vary quite drastically from what can be traced even 45 minutes later.

If someone already answered the question then just ignore this whole post :)[/QUOTE]
You are the first to answer it. Thank you! It doesn’t do anything to GABA levels in horse does it?

[APirateLooksAtForty]

Once again that seems like a serious reach, you are basically implying that the show management, judges, and BP were all conspiring together to make sure that Inclusive and Way Cool did not compete against each other even though they have done so at almost every show in recent history. Prize lists generally have divisions split by age BUT in the event that the show management does not want to run the division that way (Lots of factors involved in this, time, resources, just to name a few) they have the discretion to change that, and they do it often. Not just when Tori Colvin is riding…

Don’t have a dog in this specific upperville hunt but would not be the first time this has happened.