At C rated horseshows the children’s hunters were allowed to be split by small/medium and large ponies and horses. My niece is showing in the children’s large ponies and found out that if there were not 6 children’s small medium, 6 children’s large, and 6 horses the divisions had to be combined. I can understand requiring the ponies to have 6 for each, but I cannot understand why you would want to combine the children’s horses with the children’s ponies. Apparently there were not 6 horses so everyone had to compete together. My 10yo niece stated that she would be competing against 17yo kids on horses. What is up with that? How do you judge little kids on ponies with more mature kids on big horses?
Was this rule always in affect or did they do a rule change and why? Seems really silly to combine kids on ponies with kids on horses. And it seems like it will make the C rated horseshows decline even farther because it’s not always that easy to get 6 horses for each division.
I think it’s easier to combine children’s horses with adult amateurs… but what are you going to do when numbers are low low low? I am guessing a show that didn’t have 6 children’s ponies of all heights probably didn’t have 6 AAs either?!
There are A shows combining pre-children’s with pre-adult. Happens all the time when there aren’t enough to fill either or both.
[QUOTE=vxf111;8173840]
I think it’s easier to combine children’s horses with adult amateurs… but what are you going to do when numbera are low low low? I am guessing a show that didn’t have 6 children’s ponies of all heights probably didn’t have 6 AAs either?![/QUOTE]
well I can see that idea! combine the children’s with the adults. I just cant see combining ponies with horses. NJ C rated horse shows struggle with entries because you just don’t get the points that you get at the A rated shows. but they do have quite a few ponies. My sister said that they had 11 in total. so they all showed together. the small ponies up to the large horses. they did have 3 horses but now you have to have 6 horses or else everything is combined.
I hate to see rules that encourage the demise of the C rated horseshows. these shows are good for people like me, who are trying to get experience so going to A rated shows would be worthwhile.
I grew up showing in NJ and that happened to me and my large pony a lot. I was a little older than your niece though so I never thought of it as an advantage for the older kids on horses.
I guess I am not overly fussed about it because no matter how you combine, you’re going to have unlike horses/riders competing. Someone’s always going to “lose.” I don’t personally think judging horses and ponies in the hunters is all that challenging. A good jump is still a good jump. In the baby greens you routinely see a mix of horses and ponies. When my horse was a baby green he several times got beat by a really nice green large pony.
The alternative is to try to powwow with the other riders in the area in the division to make sure the divisions fill.
Generally, I’d quake in my boots if my horse went up against most ponies. Being from Zone 2, it happened to me. A good jump is a good jump. The age of the rider can be a limiting factor, but showing (like life) sometimes isn’t fair.
My kid went up against kids much older at a schooling show this weekend they combine classes. Pony took no prisoners and was 4th against horses. He was the number 1 pony, 4th in the class (and by far the best quality). It happens.
It’s all about the new combining rules per USEF. When they made the rule that you must have at least 6 or you must combine, this was the fall out. Children’s is one division (ponies and horses). So if you don’t have at least 6 children’s horses they will get combined into children’s ponies. However if you have 6 total children’s ponies (S, M, L) those will be combined together, and as long as you have 6 children’s horses as well the overall division need not be combined.
All under HU111
<this makes Children’s Ponies and Children’s Hunters really one division>
- Ponies may not be entered in Junior Hunter classes if Pony Hunter classes are offered at the same competition. If fence heights are changed to accommodate ponies in Children’s Hunter classes, measurement cards in accordance with HU170 are required for all entries.
<first section saying they must be combined>
- If there are six (6) or more entries in each divided section, the divided sections must be held separately. If there are fewer than six (6) entries in any sections divided by age and/or height, those sections must be combined with other sections. If there are a minimum of twelve (12) entries once any sections have been combined, the newly combined section must be re-divided using one of the options listed in HU117. Management may determine a cutoff time for entering before redividing any section(s).
<second section saying they must be combined>
- Children’s Hunter
a. Competitions must offer Children’s Hunter sections in accordance with the specifications of applicable USHJA Zone.
b. If there are fewer than six entries in any divided section, the sections must be combined. If there are six or more entries in each divided section, the divided sections must be held separately.
<and finally more info about CHP as a part of the Children’s section>
- Unless the USHJA submits their Zone specifications to the Federation by Aug. 1 of the previous year, the following specifications will apply for the Children’s Hunter section:
a. Riders entered in Children’s Hunter sections may not compete over fences in
any other class at the same competition in which obstacles are required to exceed 3’3". (Exception: USHJA National Hunter Derby).
b. Horses and ponies entered in Children’s Hunter classes may not cross enter
into Junior Hunter 3’6" sections or Pony Hunter sections at the same competition. Ponies shown in Children’s Hunter Pony sections may not be shown by an adult at the same competition, except in breeding classes in-hand. Horses entered in Children’s Hunter classes may be shown in the Amateur Owner Hunter section at the same competition if ridden by a member of the child’s family.
Good morning,
To clear up a bit of confusion, Children’s Hunter, Adult Hunter, Children’s Jumper, Adult Jumper and age group equitation are governed by the zone specs. The language in HU108 and HU111 is to be used if a zone has not submitted their own specifications. The Children’s and Adult hunters are not controlled by the “6 rule” for combining.
The zone specifications can be accessed by going to www.ushja.org, clicking on zones and then following your nose to the appropriate zone page. Once there, click on specs. The new drafts of the zone specs are currently open for comment until June 12. Please take a moment to read them and send in any comments.
Thanks so much!
Mary Babick
Chair, Hunter Working Group
also, Childrens Pony not the same as Regulars, its a lower height class. would not be combined with AAs or Childrens Hunters at 3’. More like pre adults or pre Childrens or Childrens Hunter Horse which are all 2’6" and under and not nationally rated, just zone or whatever local club gives points for it.
