[QUOTE=Susan P;4731835]
Simple Solution:
Flooded Market = Stop Production
Why does this simple market practice not work with horse breeders, are they daft?[/QUOTE]
That is a rhetorical question. :yes:
[QUOTE=jenm;4731889]
That is a rhetorical question. :yes:[/QUOTE]
That depends on where you stand.
Closing the slaughter plants in TX sure increased directly the abuse and abandoned horses load for the rescues and animal control.
The horses traders were taking away now no one can find a place for.
Traders were coming for all horses, the riding ones and those that eventually may have ended in slaughter.
Now, without those traders, that kind of horse is not moving and those kinds of horse owners are struggling and so are some of those horses.
Maybe in other parts of the country the traders are buying more horses, so the numbers of abuse may be the same when you average.
Touche. 
[QUOTE=Bluey;4731901]
Closing the slaughter plants in TX sure increased directly the abuse and abandoned horses load for the rescues and animal control.
The horses traders were taking away now no one can find a place for.
Traders were coming for all horses, the riding ones and those that eventually may have ended in slaughter.
Now, without those traders, that kind of horse is not moving and those kinds of horse owners are struggling and so are some of those horses.
Maybe in other parts of the country the traders are buying more horses, so the numbers of abuse may be the same when you average.[/QUOTE]
Why would the traders not continue their business by shipping to Mexico?
[QUOTE=jenm;4731943]
Touche.
Why would the traders not continue their business by shipping to Mexico?[/QUOTE]
Maybe too far from here?
Maybe to go there, they went closer to Mexico and Canada to buy than we are?
I don’t know.
If there was an increase in neglect of the last few years, I think you can clearly blame the economy tanking and rising prices…not the lack of slaughter seeing as how that still happens.
I assume this would not stop unquarantined horse slaughter for pet feed, and would probably lead to the falsification of veterinary records. (Unless of course, they have some really sophistaced method of verifying them.)
Long time observer, first time poster.
The new rules should dramatically change the way horse slaughter operates. Among the EU rules is that one dose of bute forever keeps that horse from slaughter (scratch all race horses and standardbreds at the bare minimum). Another forbidden drug according to the UA standards is any wormer with ivermectin–who hasn’t wormed with ivermectin?
I don’t see any end of horse slaughter in Canada and Mexico (at least two EU plants that will have to abide by the rules), but I foresee that it will turn into a system where horses are specifically bred for that purpose. As far as the quarantine/feed lot system goes, it would probably “favor” the good keepers, the drafts and QH grade types.
I trimmed at an Arabian Show barn today. They have around 20 horses there. I asked how many of these horses had never had bute that were there…I got a blank look for a second…and then my answer was “they’ve all had it at some time, of course!”
If they truly screened for bute by sellers or kept some sort of history on each horse as they do in Europe, I’d bet a good 80% or more of the adult horses would be disqualified.
Make it close to 96% to 98% for racetrack horses. If they are going to play by the rules, that automatically excludes all horses with tattoos.
It was the ivermectin thing that got me. Who HASN’T wormed with ivermectin at $2-$3 a tube?
I think I read on this thread that Mexico processes horses for the EU, so they’d have to quarantine and meet those standards as well. But if Bute and ivermectrin are illegal at any point in the human food chain, the quarantine process does not do any good.
I think the only reason why beef (raised to be eaten from the get go) is relatively cheap in the US is because it is subsidized on several fronts by the govt.
Horses have no such subsidies. ’
At least if meat prices go down, it would be cheaper to pull horses out of Camelot.
I wish there was an inexpensive, accessible way to humanely euthanize large animals.
[QUOTE=Chaila;4732556]
I think I read on this thread that Mexico processes horses for the EU, so they’d have to quarantine and meet those standards as well. But if Bute and ivermectrin are illegal at any point in the human food chain, the quarantine process does not do any good.
I think the only reason why beef (raised to be eaten from the get go) is relatively cheap in the US is because it is subsidized on several fronts by the govt.
Horses have no such subsidies. ’
At least if meat prices go down, it would be cheaper to pull horses out of Camelot.
I wish there was an inexpensive, accessible way to humanely euthanize large animals.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know why you mention beef there, but I would be very interested in knowing how beef is subsidized.
I wish there was an inexpensive, accessible way to humanely euthanize large animals.
Gosh, the combined price to euthanize and dispose of a carcass of a horse here in the municipal compost facility is about the cost of 2 months board (at a place with no indoor arena).
If you can afford to own them, you can afford to put them down humanely.
NoJacket, at the Saskatchewan and Alberta border crossings, they are not allowing DD’s to cross with horses. There are several “transfer points” just south of the crossings where the horses are unloaded into single level trucks. What this means unfortunately, is that it avoids having to comply with feed and water laws, since the horses technically are on a different journey once they board a different truck.
It will be interesting to see what really happens after July.
Arer there any organic chemists or vets knowledgeable in the area of drug detection? I doubt that bute and ivermectin residues will be detectable in any horse carcass after 6 months have passed, so the lifetime ban is moot.
[QUOTE=Chaila;4732556]
I wish there was an inexpensive, accessible way to humanely euthanize large animals.[/QUOTE]
There is, if people are willing to put effort into making it happen. A rescue here in Northern California has been successfully holding a free/low cost euthanasia clinic and their model could easily be followed throughout the U.S.
http://www.norcalequinerescue.com/clinics.php
Euthanasia Clinic Fund - This fund provides owners of horses that need to be allowed to pass on gently, with love and compassion, the opportunity to give their beloved equine pet the ultimate last gift of kindness: a peaceful death. Each month we hold a free euthanasia clinic for horses. Each horse that is brought to the clinic is evaluated by our staff and veterinarian for its condition of life and adoptability. If the equine has a good quality of life and is adoptable, we bring it into our rescue organization. This program keeps each of these animals from being sent through an auction, sent to slaughter, etc.
They also hold a low cost gelding clinic.
I suppose Ivermectin is also used in cows…gotta ask bluey about that…
But yeah, I guess you have a point, if you can’t detect it, how can you tell…
[QUOTE=Alagirl;4733821]
I suppose Ivermectin is also used in cows…gotta ask bluey about that…
But yeah, I guess you have a point, if you can’t detect it, how can you tell…[/QUOTE]
Ivermectins and related drugs are the drug of choice to deworm cattle, have been for decades now, mostly used as pour on liquids along the back.
All drugs used in cattle have been studied, certified for use and withdrawal times and the fines for not upholding those are serious, jail time and hefty fines.
Since people learned some basic hygiene, we don’t generally carry internal parasites in the western world, but some of the less developed countries, ivermectins are used to prevent the kinds of health problems worms present in their enviroment.
All the antibiotics and dewormers and such cattle get, many are the same people get.
Those products work the same for both.
On the Bute. I have read on google searches on the topic (don’t have the study I’m afraid) and do recall it saying that Bute is one of those chemicals that persist a very long time in tissues and are very slowly expelled from the tissues (meat.) I think it is this very long persistence coupled with the well documented dangerous health effects on people that led to the complete restriction of its use in food animals.
It may well be that six months is a long enough time for Bute to clear the equine body; but if there are actual studies on it, I’d love to see it. I’m not even sure that there are clear established withholding periods for horses as there are for regular food animals.
http://www.vetsforequinewelfare.org/medications.php
Fact Sheet: Medications and US Horsemeat
Veterinarians for Equine Welfare (VEW) welcomes the Canadian Food Inspection Agency’s new policy regarding equine health and medical treatments, but also remains cautious about its actual implementation and impact.
The policy recently announced by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) with assistance from the Veterinary Drug Directorate (VDD) of Health Canada was in response to stricter requirements recently mandated by the European Union. The new policy states that, “it will be mandatory for all CFIA inspected facilities in Canada engaged in the slaughter of equines for edible purposes to have complete records for all animals (domestic and imported) presented for slaughter. These records will include unique identification for each animal, as well as a record of medical treatments administered to the animal for the six-month period preceding slaughter.”
It is the united opinion of the VEW that it is beyond the scope of our profession to comment on the culinary practices of any person or country; however, consumer safety of meat produced in our country is very much a responsibility that veterinarians must carefully consider.
Horses, unlike traditional food animals in the United States, are not raised or medicated during their lifetime with the intent of one day becoming human food. Because American horses are not “intended” for the human food chain, throughout their lives they will often have received medications that are banned by the FDA for use at any time during the life of food animals. Click here for list of drugs prohibited for use in horses slaughtered for human consumption.
Approved use of medications in food animals is specifically contingent upon observation of recommended withdrawal times. Withdrawal times have been experimentally determined in traditional food animals; however, withdrawal times for these drugs have not been established in horses. Thus, medications that are FDA approved for use in traditional food animals come with specific withdrawal schedules printed on the packaging, while the same medications, purchased for horses do not include the requisite withdrawal schedule, but simply state “NOT FOR USE IN HORSES INTENDED FOR FOOD”.
Unlike the United States, European Union and United Kingdom member countries have a distinct safety policy with regard to horses entering the food chain. All EU/UK horses must carry “equine passports” in which the animal is declared to be either "eligible for slaughter as human food ", or “not eligible for slaughter for human food”.
Any EU or UK horse, which has ever received a medication that is banned for use in food producing animals, is forever prohibited from entering the food chain. All food animal approved medications that are prescribed and administered to horses in the EU or UK have strict withdrawal schedules printed on the packaging and all such medications must also be recorded on the equine passport. The EU/UK system is designed specifically to ensure the health and safety of humans that consume horsemeat. In contrast, even with the new CFIA policy American horses treated with medications that are absolutely prohibited by the EU will still be entering the food chain.
It is the strong position of VEW members that absent any formal regulation or structure by the United States with regard to medications and food safety withdrawal schedules for equines entering the food chain, horsemeat derived from any U.S. horse can never be regarded as safe for human consumption.
Furthermore, VEW member veterinarians strongly object to the AVMA and AAEP position in favor of horse slaughter for human consumption. For the AVMA and AAEP to condone the human consumption of meat derived from equines that have not been raised or medicated in a manner consistent with food safety regulations is, in our opinion, unethical, disingenuous, and dangerous.
Click here to view the entire CFIA policy and list of drugs covered. To read VEW’s statement regarding our strong opposition to slaughtering horses for human consumption please visit www.vetsforequinewelfare.org.
(updated February 2010)
http://www.vetsforequinewelfare.org/prohibited-drugs.php
Drugs prohibited for use in horses intended for human consumption
Ingredient Name: phenylbutazone
Trade Names: Phenylzone (Schering), Bute Tabs (Vedco), Phenylbute (Phoenix Pharmaceutical)
Phenylbutazone (commonly referred to as “bute”) is currently approved only for oral and injectable use in dogs and horses. Use in horses is limited to use in horses not intended for food. There are currently no approved uses of phenylbutazone in food-producing animals.
http://www.fda.gov/OHRMS/DOCKETS/98fr/03-4741.htm
Ingredient Name: acepromazine maleate
Trade Name: PromAce (Fort Dodge)
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AnimalVeterinary/Products/ApprovedAnimalDrugProducts/FOIADrugSummaries/ucm061778.pdf http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=015-030
Ingredient Name: boldenone undecylenate
Trade Name: Equipoise (Fort Dodge)
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=034-705
Ingredient Name: omeprazole
Trade Name: GastroGard
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=141-123
Ingredient Name: ketoprofen
Trade Name: Ketofen (Fort Dodge)
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=140-269
Ingredient Name: ivermectin
Trade Names: EQVALAN (Merial), Zimecterin (Merial), Equell (Pfizer), IverCare (Farnam)
EQVALAN: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=134-314
Zimecterin: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=134-314
Ingredient Name: xylazine HCl
Trade Names: Anased (Lloyd), Sedazine (Fort Dodge), Xyla-Ject (Phoenix Pharmaceutical)
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=140-442
Ingredient Name: hyaluronic acid (sodium hyaluronate)
Trade Names: Hyalovet (Fort Dodge), Hylartin V (Pharmacia & Upjohn), Legend (Bayer Animal Health)
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=140-806
Ingredient Name: pyrantel tartrate
Trade Name: Strongid C and Banminth (Pfizer), Purina® Horse & Colt Wormer (Virbac AH, Inc.)
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=042-888
Ingredient Name: nitrofurazone
Trade Names: NFZ Puffer (Hess & Clark, Inc.), Fura Ointment (Farnam Companies, Inc.)
NFZ Puffer: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=011-154
Fura Ointment: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=100-854
Ingredient Name: polysulfated glycosaminoglycan (PSGAG)
Trade Name: Adequan (Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc.)
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=140-901
Ingredient Name: clenbuterol HCl
Trade Names: Ventipulmin® Syrup (Boehringer Ingelheim)
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=140-973
Ingredient Name: tolazoline HCl
Trade Name: Tolazine (Lloyd, Inc.)
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=140-994
Ingredient Name: moxidectin
Trade Name: Quest® 2% Equine Oral Gel and Quest® Gel (Fort Dodge)
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=141-087
Ingredient Name: ponazuril
Trade Name: Marquis™ Antiprotozoal Oral Paste (Bayer Animal Health)
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/details.cfm?dn=141-188
This is only a partial list. Please visit the FDA’s website for more information on the proper use of medication for horses. http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/animaldrugsatfda/
Well, it would be more believable if some of the stuff listed was not in use for other meat lifestock or for humans…
Gastroguard is the equine version of Prilosec…the purple pill…
I am sure much more on the list is as well.
So while we harp on the ‘not aproved’ list it exactly, examined by daylight, has no serious implication of harmfulness at all.
All it does mean - in most cases - that the company did not bother to shell out MAJOR bucks to get it ‘studied’ and approved.
Sometimes I really wonder who the FDA is really working for…contradiction around evry corner, and I am not even looking into the matter…
Well, golly, that list should preclude any horse that was ever sick, competed, wormed, ummmm…just about all of them. I wonder what the withdrawl time is for the other drugs on the list-- or how the EU sees it?
