Thoughts?
I would say you still owe it, unfortunately, since the contract was still in place while all this was going on. I donât advocate for it because yeah, you got screwed and it sounds like this trainer couldnât care less and if the horse sold with minimal (or zero) effort, they still got a good deal.
Depending on purchase price/commission price paid, I might pair up with a lawyer to see if you can recoup anything if it can be proven the trainer did not in fact hold up to their end of the contractual deal. But otherwise, Iâd chalk it up to lessons learned and ensuring if one end doesnât hold up to the agreed upon terms, there is an out.
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You say â15% commission on sale was discussed.â
Was it agreed to?
what were the terms agreed to?
Some trainers/barn owners expect a commission on any horse that is sold while living at their barn, regardless of who participates in the sales process.
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It was ownerâs understanding that trainer would be handling all aspects of sale of the horse. There was no written contract in place.
Horse people and their horse business problems drive me nuts.
The owner put herself in this unfortunate position. Is it fair? No. Is it a self-created situation? Yes. As it is described in the first post.
The owner incentivized the trainer to do nothing about selling the horse by making it a steady source of income to the trainer. The trainer did little to get the horse sold, nonetheless the owner stayed with the trainer & trainerâs facility. Owner did not make a change to someone else who would do better. Finally a sale materializes and the owner does most of the work on it.
Then sale falls through. Owner continues to keep horse at trainerâs facility. Owner proceeds to sell the horse herself, BUT through the trainerâs facility. Using the trainerâs amenities.
Horse is sold for real this time, by owner.
Oh, and ⊠is there any written agreement between owner and trainer? Well, this is horse people we are talking about, so letâs all guess: No. Probably not.
If there is no written agreement, owner is free to ignore the trainerâs bill and find out what the trainer does about it. Ignoring everything from the trainer that isnât through legal channels.
If there is a written agreement, owner is free to ignore the trainerâs bill and find out what the trainer does about it. Same, ignore all communication that isnât through legal channels.
Or the owner can come to some conclusion about what owner owes or does not owe to the trainer, and go from there.
This is a civil matter. It is up to the parties to fight it out between themselves. Or just do what they are going to do, regardless of what the other party does, and see what happens.
There is no authority who goes around issuing penalties to people who donât fulfill their contracts properly, like a cop handing out speeding tickets. Unless one party and/or the other initiates something through legal channels, nothing happens when a contract is unfulfilled or breached.
I have no opinion on who is in the right re the trainerâs bill for a commission. Owner used trainerâs facilities to show off the horse to prospective buyers vs. trainer did not do their part of the job (in the opinion of the owner).
The only thing I would say is that owner needs to recognize how much of this situation is of ownerâs creation. Owner could have made other, wiser choices, and not be in this position. Learn and do better next time. Please. 
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No notes by owner, no emails, no anything that indicates what owner thought the trainer would be doing? Nothing to indicate in writing what the trainer said or believed?
Not that it would matter now.
Iâm not even asking how much this horse sold for. Donât want to know. If the horse is pricey, all I can say is that the owner really put a lot at risk without a contract or even just a written, signed agreement.
So did the trainer ⊠although it sounds as if the trainer didnât put much effort into this sale. But the trainer is as unprotected as the owner.
As said above, owner can do what owner wants to do. Might consider if there is any reputation risk in the horse community, and if owner cares about that. And if the trainer is inclined to put a lawyer on to people they do business with, and if the owner cares about that, too.
A formal contract probably wasnât necessary. Just a written agreement that both signed.
It is up to the owner to make some decisions on the situation as it is now. Do whatever owner wants to do - or not do - and move on. Good luck!
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Check the boarding contract. Sometimes it is written in there that any sales owe a percentage, or something like that. People tend not to remember the fine details when they havenât looked at it in a long time.
Preach!
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Yes, there was a contract.
Sale contract should have specified who is responsible for paid advertising.
âŠand maybe that trainer was trying to string you along for cash flowâŠ
No contract? Iâd be inclined to ignore the bill unless I really really want to keep the peace with this trainer and/or barn for some reason. But plan to never deal with them again and to be bad mouthed to everyone, as you know thatâs what the trainer will do! Iâd also make sure all board and training fees, plus any other bills that might be outstanding (barn vet, barn farrier, whatever) are paid in full.
Now another way might be to actually talk to the trainer and tell them why it seems unreasonable to expect a full commission under the circumstances described, and perhaps negotiate something in the middle (between 0 and 15%). But I guess it just depends how willing the owner is to burn bridges or not.
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Hey @ridesleeprepeat, why did you remove the original post?
This type of topic is a great learning thing for everyone.
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If theres nothing in writing, which is the impression I got from post, which seems to have disappeared, theres no proof who said what to whom and what each side understood about sale procedures when trainer took on care of the horse.
Also got the impression OP paid in full for all services for some time and didnât sound like there was any direct, formal communication with trainer about specific areas OP was unhappy with. With no written contract concerning sale procedures, both sides likely assumed different things. Hope there is a boarding contract? Is there?
Hope OP didnât poof it. At least if others can learn from a bad experience some good can come from our mistakes with horses when we share them. And ALL of us have made some mistakes we would rather not see others repeat.
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From the mention of income stream, I am wondering if the horse was used in a lesson program? If so, I hope thereâs a contract for that, too. Because then you could get a bill for boarding all that time, and since you have no written agreement there, you could be stuck paying that.
Get it in writing!!
Or board and training fees.
I canât see what the original post was, but there was one comment about if the owner/seller used the trainerâs facilities to sell the horse. Was the horse there on consignment to be sold or boarded there. Does the trainer own or rent said facility? That would all come into play. if the owner sent the horse to a consignment barn but put in most of the efforts of the sale, Iâd say they were still on the hook for the commission.
The OP/Seller should ask that the trainer submit an itemized invoice which would show justification for them to be paid a commission. Perhaps anyone who is selling a horse in the future should include that in their contract. OP should also make sure she gets the trainerâs SSN so they can issue a 1099.
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No, she said no contract.
In a poof post she said that the owner âunderstoodâ that the trainer would handle all aspects of the sale. Also, in the first post she said that she had to pressure the trainer to advertise the horse, trainer did not do so until this pressure was on.
As I remember, trainer did find a buyer, but then the sale fell through. Trainer must have stopped working on selling the horse because OP said that she took over, advertised, took
calls, showed the horse to lookers, and finally arranged and concluded the sale. Trainer left her a bill for 15% commission (fairly certain 15%).
IIRC above post correctly summarizes poofed post.
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Thank you for summarizing the now deleted original post @OverandOnward.
I have to assume that the âunderstoodâ agreement was because of a conversation where the OP and the trainer discussed what was going on. I mean, how else would one understand?
It sounds like after the original sale fell thru that the OP either had to have a new conversation so there is a new understanding⊠or the original understanding still applies so pay the commission.
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This is such a good point. A learning moment for all horse people - we assume agreements that we havenât discussed, in many cases. I am guessing that this is what OP was implying, although of course I donât know for sure.
I think people tend to have a picture in their heads of what a trainer (or anyone) does in certain standard situations, like selling a horse. But maybe the trainer has a different mental picture.
Or, maybe the other party has different priorities. Or a different timeline. Or is already over-scheduled to be able to get this done. We donât know these things if we are too shy, or too assumptive, to have the conversation.
Specifying the timeline of expectations is critically important to any transactional agreement. Otherwise a busy person or a procrastinator may not be moving forward as we thought they would.
âLetâs get together for a few minutes and talk through our agreement for selling my horseâ is a useful phrase. Set a time to meet without distractions. So often trainers are getting ready for the next ride or the next lesson, and that can divert their attention from the specifics of a conversation.
Generic âyouâ:
âOK, Iâll write this up on a one-page paper and letâs both sign it, and then weâll both have something to cover whatever comes up.â If someone replies by waving away signing anything, insist politely âWell this is something I have to do for any personal business.â Act like itâs required by some higher authority - even if the higher authority is really just you. Itâs helpful to always have an imaginary higher authority to toss under any bus. But due to the requirements of said higher authority (= the rational part of your brain), you canât do this agreement without signatures on that piece of paper. Sign or itâs off, I get someone else to do it. 
This is not advice, just personal experience.
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