Comparing Saddle Brands & Adjusting Trees

[Ocombs]

Hello! This might be a long ish read, sorry.

I have a horse that has been a difficult fit forever. We’ve had an Antares AO tree saddle for a few years that I love and fits me great, and I thought (and was told) fit her great too until recently.

I had a non-brand-loyal saddle fitter look at her, and after trying several brands/models only two were recommended: County Stabilizer and Verhan Morriston in wide trees. Now, you can imagine how uncomfortable these can be for me coming off of my Antares (they have slick leather in the seat and flap, the seat was very hard on my bum).

Of course I want my horse happy and she moved very smoothly in these two saddles, but I’m not comfortable in either and I can’t justify spending $2000 or so for something I’ll hate.

Also, I’ve been getting conflicting information from multiple sources regarding reflocking or tree adjustment. I have a few saying to just reflock and it should work, a saddle repairer saying the tree can be adjusted to fit the horse, and a few saying neither will work.

My questions: Are there any brands/models that fit exactly like the two I mentioned above that would be similar in rider comfort to my Antares?
And,
Can the Antares tree be adjusted to be flatter and wider in the back, or will that just not work at all?

Thanks a bunch!

[no.stirrups]

I’m not familiar with those specifically, but Verhan was made by Harry Dabbs until fairly recently so by contacting them you might find out what tree was used and therefore be able to track down similar saddles.

[BootsAndCoffee]

What year was the Stabilizer you tried? More recent years will have softer seats, and there are some grippy bull and calf Stabilizers out there.

[AAHunterGal]

@Ocombs

I had a non-brand-loyal saddle fitter look at her, and after trying several brands/models only two were recommended: County Stabilizer and Verhan Morriston in wide trees.

I wouldn’t always count on a “non-brand-loyal” fitter to do a good job. I had one come out where I used to live to take a look at my mare, who was also in an Antares, and was told she wouldn’t go in anything but a hoop tree.

I asked about several other brands and options, including an Antares AO, and was dismissively told “I’m not familiar with that brand.” Ummmm…I was talking about CWD, Antares, Devoucoux…all brands that ANY saddle fitter should definitely know.

I would be wary of a fitter who recommends rare or lesser well known brands, or one that’s wildly different than what you’re currently using. County does make lovely saddles, but they are a VERY different balance. Not every horse goes in a French brand for sure, but there might be a saddle closer to your normal ride that would work before you make such a huge leap.

A perfectly fitting saddle for the horse does nothing if you can’t ride well in it. It has to work for you both!

May I ask why you had a fitter out? Was your mare sore in her back or acting out in other ways while being worked?

[Ocombs]

Oh gosh, I’m not totally sure. It’s old though.

I also have not been able to get my hands on a newer County to see what the leather is like - nor am I having any luck finding one in my size and the tree I need.

I unfortunately cannot afford a completely custom saddle at this time, either.

[Ocombs]

Hi! Yes, she’s been super upset when I saddle her, pinning ears when I even start to put the AP pad on and almost biting me. She doesn’t act out during riding much, but her back had started getting sore where my butt goes and there are dry spots in that exact area (I know dry spots are not an indicator of good saddle fit, but being sore in the same spot must mean something), and she doesn’t relax easily which she did VERY quickly in that County I tried. I didn’t have to constantly be on her to drop her head and engage her hind end.

I would LOVE to try other brands and honestly my Antares fits around her shoulders so well (even the saddle fitter said “I don’t know why she’d be upset with this”, but changed her tune when she saw me ride in it and compared that to how we rode in other saddles), and it’s SO grippy (I’m in my 30s and this was my first grippy saddle and I never want to go back). I’m going to be sad to sell it.

I have info for a saddle repair person that used to make Smith Worthington saddles and he’s convinced he can adjust the tree to fit (and reflock), but I am almost certain I read that Antares trees can’t be adjusted…. Maybe that was just meant to say they are not exchangeable gullets.

Either way, I’m totally open for other brands and can even push my budget to $3000-3500 if it’s a super nice Saddle and I have it for a long time. But currently what I know and felt in both those saddles, I can’t justify spending that much money on them.

[Ocombs]

I could do that. Thanks for that background info! It should help the search.

[BootsAndCoffee]

The first two numbers in the serial number will tell you the year it was made.

It is worth having a fitting with County. They don’t make the Stabilizer anymore, but they have similar trees. The used market is decent: Highline Tack and Maryland Tack Exchange get tons in, and there is a County-specific sales group on Facebook.

[Scribbler]

1. The basic tree shape, how curvy or flat, cannot be altered.

2. Reflocking a wool saddle can make minor tweaks to fit but cannot compensate for a mismatch in tree shape.

3. Foam saddles can be repaneled at the factory at greater expense than wool but again cannot compensate for a mismatch in tree size or shape.

4. Some fitters are willing to put the tree in a press to torque the wither gullet larger or smaller by a centimeter or so. This stresses the tree and many fitters refuse to do so. It can only tweak not really make a huge difference.

5. Most traditionally trained saddle fitters prefer wool flocked saddles because they can tweak them, whereas they can’t do much to foam. Obviously they can evaluate the fit of foam.

6. Takeaway: there is no such thing as a truly adjustable saddle. On the other hand buying second hand you need to be aware the saddle will have been customized and then tweaked again for several owners, and may need to be stripped and reflocked for you. Shopping locally I learned to spot the handiwork of one brand Rep who liked to flock asymmetrically and another who overstuffed her saddles into giant rock hard poofs.

[Ocombs]

Thank you for this. I had a feeling that saddle trees could not be adjusted very much, but I’m getting into from professionals that they can be.
I’ve been around horses a long time, worked in an English tack shop for several years, am familiar with several brands, but I still have to trust professionals and getting conflicting information is stressing me out so bad.

[Scribbler]

My observation is that brand saddle reps are not fitting professionals plus they will overpromise to make a sale. If your horse is not a good fit for their tree they may not tell you, and try to fix it with flocking.

There is no traditional saddle out there with a tree that changes shape in terms of curve or drape (leaving out treeless saddles and outliers like the Pegasus or Wow).

I took my horses back tracings to a competent reseller of top French foam saddles and she concluded that I was unlikely to find any French saddle to fit her big withers and shoulders.

The wool flocked British and German saddle makers have been responding to the French competition by moving to softer more calf skin seats. And Stubben has the cushy biomex seat! But yes the traditional seat material for saddles is not fragile calfskin layers.

[Bogie]

Almost all trees can be adjusted up/down 1 size by someone with a saddle press. Most brands do not recommend more than 2 adjustments as they can impact the integrity of the tree.

But, and there are two buts.

1. You need to take it to someone who is competent with a saddle press. If not, you can end up with saddle which is now uneven.
2. Just because you make the saddle wider, it might not fit. You need to confer with a good saddle fitter before doing any adjustments.

I would be wary of a fitter who recommends rare or lesser well known brands, or one that’s wildly different than what you’re currently using. County does make lovely saddles, but they are a VERY different balance. Not every horse goes in a French brand for sure, but there might be a saddle closer to your normal ride that would work before you make such a huge leap.

Why? There are a ton of really nice saddle brands that are not French. Why not explore the different options? IMO, French saddles are often overpriced and if you can get the quality and fit from a saddle brand that is less expensive, there’s nothing wrong with that. My favorite jumping saddle is a Jeffries JMX monoflap. My saddle fitter says it is nicer than saddles that cost twice the price and it’s worked very well for me.

[Scribbler]

@Bogie

Agreed about brands. Many horse owners don’t know a lot of brands so “unknown” is relative and driven by fashion.

When I returned to riding 15 years ago a good County was considered top of the line for H/J and in the intervening years Voltaire and CWD have taken over the local market. Someone who is 30 now and a great rider might only know French foam brands and think traditional wool saddles look wierd

Also in any given region the well known brand is the one with a local Rep. So we have Custom, Schleese, Voltaire, CWD and a private label Ideal dealer. Not sure if we currently have County or Stubben reps, maybe. Yiu can order Passier from back East but they don’t have a local Rep. You can also get Wintec from Greenhawk.

I buy second hand and get them reflocked by an independent saddle fitter.

But I’m quite aware there are lots of brands I’ve never laid eyes on, including Black County and Antares, that are hardly obscure but I’ve done lots of reading on the topic of saddles. Just because a fitter recommends a saddle that isnt repped locally and hence flooding the local resale market, doesn’t mean its truly an obscure brand. And often there are bargains with British or European brands that don’t market as aggressively in North America.

[Viranh]

That’s actually adequate budget for an English bench made saddle. I paid $3800 for my Täkt dressage made to a tracing last year. There are some English saddle makers who start a little lower, so custom isn’t completely out of reach. It’s definitely more than enough for a used saddle of the same type of the fitter can provide more info about tree shape and panel options that work.