*Competent* saddle fitter in the Columbus Ohio area?

[BroncoMo]

I know saddle fit can get off the rails quick, but I’m sort of out of ideas here.

Scenario: very prominent wither with under developed top line. Working on building the top line up but the horse is new to me and we are working through possible physical issues.

Back is extremely sore to palpate, very stiff to the right. We thought it was a stifle issue but he flexed negative on stifles. Shock waved his back and saw drastic improvement.

Due to the shape of his back, saddles slide way far back and cannot be kept appropriately forward. A vet in our barn said that she usually sees them sore up on the sides of their wither due to saddle fit, but he’s also sore back in to his SI.

I’m going to see about getting X-rays today and see what we are dealing with. But I’m filling preparing myself to need a custom saddle, which brings about a whole other problem….

I’m currently riding in a Voltaire Palm Beach. It fits me perfectly and is life changing in how it positions me. I’m hearing they tend to make horses back sore (at least in our barn) and may be a contributing factor in my situation.

Trainer rides in a Mademoiselle and he seems to have less issues. Though we’ve been battling the behavioral reactions to back pain for the last 2 months or so, thinking it was just a bump in the road training wise. Until it snow balled this week at a show. So whether or not her saddle is contributing, unsure right now. But I’m interested in the idea of the flex tree that CWD uses.

I don’t care about brands. I just want something that fits both of us, has good customer service, and is accessible. I don’t need something that I can’t get help and support with in our area.

I realize the discontent with brand saddle reps. I also realize they aren’t always as educated as we would like them to be. But I do need the support from a brand and rep in case the saddle needs to be modified over time as his top line develops. But I need someone competent. Someone who can fit a horse with back problems and provide experienced feed back.

I’m sick of going through saddles. I’ve lost track of how many saddles I’ve gone through in the last 6 or 7 years. I love how the Palm Beach works for me. So suggestions on similar riding brands that may be easier to customize for this horse would be appreciated.

Or, if there’s a panel reconfiguration that can be done for super high wither narrow backed horses. Perhaps my saddle can be repaneled. Problem is, my other horse is nowhere near the same build as this one….

Send help….

[Ponyplusaninch]

I got you covered. Jen Scholz. She isn’t in Ohio, but she’ll make her way there. Literally was just here to do some flocking adjustments on my saddle as the big boi now has big, equally developed shoulders.

She carries a lot of brands, both wool and foam flocked. Equipe, Amerigo (what we went with), Harry Dabbs, Passier (I think im missing a couple others). And she usually has used saddles too.

Home | SL Saddles

Tell her the gal with the big gray hunter in Columbus sent you her way

[Ponyplusaninch]

Btw I can tell you now Jen will tell you to steer clear of the flexible tree (she has some opinions on them) and go for something like a Harry Dabbs or Amerigo that has a greater variety of trees/customization of trees.

I had a CWD before my Amerigo. It fit me great; I loved it. It fit the horse… not so great. We had hoped he’d fill out more with groceries and it would be a better fit 6-12 mo. But it hit him in the withers and slid back constantly. He also was very underdeveloped on the right front side, and we seemingly hit a roadblock in his conditioning to really build more muscle.

The new amerigo saddle totally changed that. And if you like the ride/balance of the French saddles, the Amerigo/Equipe are very similar (just more customizable for the horse).

Anywho good luck saddle shopping! I know it can be super frustrating, but it was a very joyous day when we found something that fit both of us, and I do not regret a penny spent. Hear’s hoping you find something soon

[Pokerface]

To follow up on this, OPs horse sounds EXACTLY like my horse (except he is stiff to the left, not the right), and he QUICKLY outgrew being comfortable in CWD (we had one for 6 months). We are currently riding in an old Passier (LOVE) and my fitter recently put a newer Harry Dabbs on him and I was super impressed. I wasn’t able to ride in it, as my horse wasn’t feeling his best when she was out, but the panels completely free up the shoulder and it sat better on him than just about any other saddle I’ve ever seen. I was also very impressed with the price point, new saddles are like $3,000. I’m strongly considering getting one next year (our Passier is an AP saddle, so good for now, but not for long-term). So, sounds to me like this fitter has a lot of great options!

[Ponyplusaninch]

@BroncoMo I am supposed to get some updated photos of my guy’s recent tracings. I’ll share them on the BB when I get them.

He is the poster child for why you get a well-fitted, custom saddle because his topline and shoulder just blossomed once we got the fit down. It took a year, but we got there!

[TallyhoFarms]

I would love to help if I can. I’m a rep for Arion (www.arion-hst.com) a smaller, french saddle company that values horse and rider comfort as well as customer service. Your horse sounds like a great candidate for our shoulder free saddle. Feel free to message me (650) 438-7535

[zpsid91]

I would go with Amanda Berges - if she’s not able to help you out she can recommend someone else (I think she is dealing with some long term effects of COVID).
The Saddle Tree – Certified Independent Saddle Fitter

[Pico_Banana]

Dressage rider here so take it for what it’s worth.

I recently purchased an older schoolmaster with a high narrow wither and next to no topline. He had been ridden in an Amerigo Classic in a Medium tree that fit him reasonably well. And that I loved as a rider.

I was prepared to stick with the same saddle but decided to first rent an EQ as part of their rehab rental program to see if I could improve his topline before making a purchase. Let me tell you, I am IN LOVE with these saddles. We are three months in and he’s older so it’s somewhat slow going (also took me a while to realize he also needed more calories!) but his topline is hugely improved! He is going so much better than he was when I tried him. More fluid, more correct use of his back. Of course, I ride him completely differently so there’s that but he really likes this saddle. and the rental is a nice, low stress way to try a different kind of saddle.

Also, they are very adjustable from the rider perspective, too. Adjustable stirrup bar, Velcro blocks…

No affiliation, just a very satisfied customer!

[EVneo]

And I would absolutely recommend not going with her. Ordered a custom saddle from her that didn’t fit, ever - tried to charge me for the multiple trips and fittings to try and get it to work. After the third, left it at, “welp, don’t know why I ordered you a W, he’s really more MN, oh well!”

[before_color]

Avoid this woman like the plague. She is not a competent saddle fitter.

[NaturallyHappy]

Agree completely w @before_color and @EVneo.

[hairystockings]

Paul with Forestier is excellent. He’s based out of Northern KY near Cincinnati, is often at WEC Ohio. I know he has frequented Columbus area barns also. Extremely knowledgeable fitter, many of us had moved over to Forestier because of him.

[BroncoMo]

Sorry y’all. Didn’t mean to ghost this thread. Between the horse and the show, I straight up didn’t have time to go pee, let alone come back and read responses.

So x rays show severe kissing spines that apparently have been going on for a long time; just now aggravated for some reason. This would probably explain the lack of topline, though we have blood work out for various things including EPM.

He has severe impingement at (I’m bad with vertebral numbering) the base of his withers and also in his lumbar. Close processes throughout. They think he’s had this likely his whole life or a large portion of it (he’s 7). He is 18 hands and massive shark fin wither that sits deep but steeply drops. So I guess he’s just made to be predisposed to back issues.

It’s gut wrenching to think that what we thought was a training speed bump has been back pain. Please be kind here. I’ve done enough crying this week…

At this point I have a better feel for how to condition him than I do for saddles. I appreciate all the recommendations but holy crap this is overwhelming.

Has anyone successfully had a foam flocked saddle repaneled to work for a KS horse? It just dawned on me that it would probably help if I moved my front billet back to keep the saddle from sliding so much. I’m pretty sure I can do that on a Voltaire but will need to look.

What have y’all done to help saddle fit while the horse builds a topline? He’ll be doing a ton of ground work but I could see him being flatted on occasion; maybe. I just can’t wrap my head around how you deal with saddle fit during what should be expected as a dramatic change in muscling. Like… reflock/adjust every few weeks? That doesn’t seem feasible. Help me work through the logistics of this.

We are going to try conditioning for a few months to see if we can make any progress. If that isn’t working, we will go to surgery. I realize this may need to be cross posted in the horse care forum, but it’s still relevant here for saddle fit reasons.

Now I’m rambling. As far as saddle fit, I just don’t know where to go and who to trust…

[Ponyplusaninch]

So sorry to hear about the KS–that is super frustrating. Fingers crossed his conditioning work is a success so you can avoid the surgical route!

New panels can help; it’s probably best to see first if the tree is the right fit first however. Calling out an independent fitter means you can get tracings and better insight than anyone on the internet can. They can give you insights on a used saddle (they may even have used saddles on hand!) that would be a good interim and that you can then resell down the line. The interim saddle may not be what you’d normally ride in, but if it helps your horse feel more comfortable just as he’s coming back, that might be a good way to go.

Typically saddles don’t get reflocked/adjusted every few weeks–it’s rare a horse has that dramatic a change in a short period of time. More like every 4-6 months they’ll do an adjustment, depending on the horse. For that reason, there’s a chance the fitter will suggest a shimmable pad so you can make slight alterations in their absence.

IN AN IDEAL WORLD (where horse is happy and healthy and budget isn’t a question)… Because your horse is young and big and developing, you may be one of those people who buys a saddle that fits the horse you have now–and then need to replace 2-3 years down the line if his topline does indeed dramatically change over that time frame. This sounds horribly expensive–and it is, I won’t sugar coat it. But what you don’t want to do is buy a saddle that a horse will “grow into.” That tactic doesn’t work. It’s about meeting the horse in their development where they are today.

Whatever fitter you go with, I cannot stress enough to find someone who deals with 3 or more brands vs. 1 or even just 2 brands. They should know how a range of saddles fit on a range of backtypes–not just one saddle for all horses. Ideally it’s someone who can give you referrals in an SMS without hesitation. It should be someone who does tracings and gives you the tracings.

FWIW, I met with 6 fitters over the course of 4 months before I found one that had the right saddle for my horse and that I believed I could work with well enough over time. Believe me when I say I know your struggle. Of the six fitters I met with, 3 are mentioned on this thread. I’m happy to give you more insights into my meetings with them if you want to DM me.

[BroncoMo]

Well at this point I’ve been going through saddles every 2 years to get my fit right so I certainly sucks. I just don’t know how to of forward with managing a saddle that fits me (me fighting a poor fit will not help the horse at all), change it as his topline changes, and yet still manage to ride other horses, more specifically my other one who in no way resembles the one in question. I’ve always intended on having two saddles at some point; one to keep at home and one to keep at the trainer 800 miles away. But that’ just isn’t in the budget at the moment. So I’m stumped. I don’t want to bandaid things with shimable pads, but maybe that’s feasible until his back is developed. I’ll send you a message.

[rhapsodyz]

I’m sorry that you’re going through this! It’s frustrating, but definitely worth the struggle to find a saddle that fits you and your horse. I’ve been on this journey for about 2 years now, although I’m not dealing with KS, and I’ve learned a ton but it took me a lot of digging to find the questions I needed to be asking. I agree with getting an independent fitter out. Ask questions. Do your research. Turn over all the rocks that you can. I’ve met lots of really helpful and well educated people, but I’ve also met people who don’t know what they don’t know so will give you the wrong answer or will tell you what they think you want to hear.

I’ve heard several successful stories of people having foam panels replaced with wool panels, but it has to be done by someone who really knows what they are doing because it’s not as simple as just taking the foam out and putting wool back in. As a previous post said, the first thing to check would be to make sure the tree on your existing saddle is appropriate for your horse. If it’s sliding back, it’s too wide. Panels and shims will never fix that because it’s an angle issue- the best is to start with the tree shape as close to matching the horse as possible. I would also ask everybody that you can about tree point length. You mentioned that your horse has tall withers, so the short tree point in the French and Italian saddles will not be appropriate for him because it can’t reach the supportive muscles on the rib cage.

At the end of the day, it’s expensive to have a new saddle made, but it’s more expensive to have a saddle that doesn’t fit your horse.

As far as helping his back out, there is a Facebook group called NoBackNoHorse. It’s an educational and no nonsense group dedicated to helping horse owners strengthen their horse’s back. They have a lot of in hand exercises listed in the guides, but most people in the group ride as well.

Another resource I’ve found helpful is the Facebook group Saddle Fit Questions and Answers. There are educational posts and there are lots of fitters who will help analyze saddle fit through Facebook posts. Obviously it won’t stand in for actually having someone come touch your horse, but it might be a good place to post some photos for advice or ask questions.

Feel free to message me- I’m in Lexington, KY, so relatively close to you as well. I’m happy to share my experiences with all the things

[BroncoMo]

Thank you this is all very helpful. My concern with getting a tree to fit is structurally this horse is very big. But lacking an enormous amount of topline, which I know will be changing. So ultimately I don’t know how to go about fitting him for the interim while he builds topline. Because I know he won’t need a narrow tree when all is said and done. I just don’t want to fill in the gaps with shims and padding that is going to create issues while we condition him.

I’ll have to check out that FB group. The KS group I joined initially has me hesitant to post anything as there are some very strong and judging personalities that seem to respond to every post. I don’t need judgement; I need help and ideas. So I’ll check out the No Back No Horse. Hopefully it’s a bit more friendly to post in haha.

ETS: I do understand the point of long versus short tree points. I absolutely agree there. I’m just concerned about getting him a narrower tree now, when he’s going to bulk and add topline in the coming months. So ideas on that are greatly appreciated!

[rhapsodyz]

I would find a knowledgeable saddle fitter to chat with that about because they’re going to have a better idea of how much they would expect him to actually develop. I did a fair bit of digging to see how much horses will typically muscle up in their topline and honestly didn’t come up with any definitive information, but according to what I found (source: Facebook posts from saddle fitters and body workers) it’s uncommon for horses to increase their muscling so much that they will need a significantly wider saddle. However, there are so many factors- I don’t know if your guy is under conditioned, dealing with atrophy/weakness due to KS issues, where the under muscled areas are, etc. Also, some horses are significantly bigger in the shoulder than they are at the withers, but the tree points should fit and sit on the back behind the scapula so the shoulder can be misleading. I don’t know how bad the KS is for him, but it’s not unreasonable to stop riding him until he has rehabbed enough to support a rider again, in which case you can wait until he’s in a better physical place for a saddle fitting. I don’t know what your horse looks like, so I’m just trying to throw suggestions out there, not trying to offend

As far as fitting him now while still having a plan for later:

One option is to find a brand with an adjustable gullet (Bliss of London is one that comes to mind). That would allow you to change the fit down the road as needed. It is worth noting that as the gullet gets wider, the tree fits more curvy along the back which may or may not be an issue.

Another option is to find a brand with an adjustable tree (Stubben comes to mind, but there are others). They aren’t infinitely adjustable, but can usually be modified up to 1cm wider or narrower from the size they were built.

Another option is to find something second hand that fits him now and allows you to do the work that needs to be done, and replace it with either another temporary saddle or a more permanent one depending on how things are going. Second hand saddles are not only cheaper to buy, but tend to hold their value quite well, so it might be more friendly to go this route and still be able to have the Palm Beach for your other horse.

You seem to not want to fit wide and add shims, but if you change your mind on that then definitely talk to a saddle fitter or five. I think you’re going to run back into the problem of the saddle sliding back and pinching at the top/sides of the withers. I’m far from an expert, but my horse thinks he knows everything and has been pretty clear about this option not working for him. To me it is an issue of angles not matching up and sitting well together, but it does seem that there are some people who are fairly successful at doing this. One thing to be aware of is that in some cases when the saddle is pinching from being too wide, it can actually cause hypertrophy. The back looks like it’s developing so the horse can have a wider saddle, but it seems to be actually a tension response that is not good. I can find my source on that if you want because I don’t remember the science.

I haven’t posted in the group yet, but I like to follow the posts. They are very supportive of people reading the guides and doing the work, and there are lots of video examples and explanations. It’s definitely a supportive group that encourages learning, but they don’t typically allow a lot of discussion as they want to keep the drama and the keyboard warriors away lol

I hope you get this figured out! There is a lot of information out there, and I had to learn to ask the right questions before I started getting the answers that were helpful. My horse has really rewarded me for listening to him and prioritizing his comfort. It’s so much easier and more pleasant to work in harmony than fighting and forcing things to happen!

[BroncoMo]

Thank you for this. Lots to take in here. This is a general question to anyone on this board. I do realize long tree points will benefit this horse, which I’m likely going to have to accommodate.

But what, if anything, can be done to alleviate issues from the trainer’s saddle? Which is a short point French brand. She has 20+ horses in training and it’s not feasible for her to have buy a saddle just for this one horse. Obviously she’s the one riding him most of the time as I live 800 miles away. Is there a way to make a short point tree work for her? I feel like pads and such are a bandaid. But I don’t know that there’s a good course of action for the trainer’s saddle.

[NaturallyHappy]

@rhapsodyz, I am very interested in learning more about hypertrophy. Could you share your sources? I will also Google. Thank you!