Complicated Horse Pricing

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

OP, I’m not a pro, but listen to the more experienced people in this thread AND do take it from me a fellow ammie, I think you need to experience another program before buying ANY horse. The program you’re currently involved does not sound “normal” or standard (and my main love is dressage, so I’m certainly not anti-flatwork). Riding a course of cross rails or tiny verticals isn’t brain surgery and won’t mess up your flatwork or your ability to jump higher later on.

My opinion (free, given on the Internet) is that if a rider doesn’t come from a horsey background, before she buys a horse, she should ride with more than one trainer and see how more than one barn/program operates.

[OverandOnward]

@carrotgirl

but with the same rider that horse doesn’t like. Which in my eyes, kind of defeated the purpose of going.

How is that helping trainer sell the horse ???

This trainer … makes very. strange. decisions.

Go find a rider on your own. Time to start making all of your own decisions, and not rely on this trainer. This trainer seems to be doing way too much thinking for you, with peculiar results. It doesn’t have to be that way and it’s your choice.

Maybe this trainer is just somewhat out of date. Or … other things.

I’m back to: something else is going on with trainer & horse. No idea what. It may or may not be about the horse. But many things about the scenario you describe, OP, are – odd. Very, very odd.

With or without this horse, IMO it is past time for a new program. Just an opinion.

[luvmyhackney]

I read your other thread.

Back away from the horse and try a different barn for a couple months. You can still lease this horse but go kiss some frogs before dropping 50k.

[endlessclimb]

This horse is on lease. She can’t just throw anyone she wants up there.

[OverandOnward]

@carrotgirl – All of us, as horse owners, need a fallback plan. Back of mind.

Let us say you purchase this horse at some price. Maybe the horse works out fabulously – I hope so!

But – what is your plan if this horse turns out to be a horse that you can’t really manage in another barn, another environment? And this continues year after year? This is the downside. Can you handle the downside?

Before or after you get to your new place, can you put the horse in training with a very good pro? Not your current trainer! Someone who is actually producing good quiet jumping horses.

Realize that this horse, as is, with the stops (on record!) and a bit hot, is not sellable in many markets. Hard to even give away. And if you do find a buyer, a horse with this record is unlikely to bring anywhere near $50k from any other buyer. Even one that believes in him.

The point is, you could be stuck with this horse. It would be taking up the space and budget for another horse that you would enjoy more.

I am not against you eventually buying this horse. But in the program you are in, you just have not had a chance to find out what this horse can, and will, really do for you.

As all have been saying – Buying this horse is buying what he is doing right now, and where he is located right now. That is what the $50k is for.

Move him elsewhere and you could end up babying and caring for this horse for years without getting much riding satisfaction from him. That downside is also part of the $50k purchase price.

Is that ok with you?

Maybe this horse is the horse. But IMO it’s way too early to tell.

Also and not for nothing – it is very easy for horse people to fall in love with a horse. Callous as it sounds, there will be other horses to fall in love with.

I know how hard it would be to say goodbye to this good boi. But – if you leave without him, then ride other horses in your new place, and still love this one and can’t forget him – I’m thinking he’s likely to still be with current trainer and still for sale. Go back and get him then. For a lot less than $50k.

[ThreeWishes]

Carrotgirl. I ask this not trying to cause any angst or drama. But is this the same trainer ?

Trainer says I'm ready for my first horse, but I have doubts

Long time lurker here, first time posting. So I’ve been riding 3x a week at a competitive h/j barn in NY for about a year now. The other day my trainer suddenly told me I should look into buying my first horse. To be honest I was a bit surprised, considering how I typically hear of people riding for several years before purchasing their horse/leasing, etc. However I’m still a novice rider, I can w/t/c with and without stirrups, sit trot, count strides, feel wrong canter leads (but can’t do flyin…

[OverandOnward]

@ThreeWishes

Carrotgirl. I ask this not trying to cause any angst or drama. But is this the same trainer ?

Long time lurker here, first time posting. So I’ve been riding 3x a week at a competitive h/j barn in NY for about a year now. The other day my trainer suddenly told me I should look into buying my first horse. To be honest I was a bit surprised, considering how I typically hear of people riding for several years before purchasing their horse/leasing, etc. However I’m still a novice rider, I can w/t/c with and without stirrups, sit trot, count strides, feel wrong canter leads (but can’t do flyin…

Dayum, y’all.

Holy *(&# $#!7.

OK Carrotgirl. In light of this other thread, this is an emergency.

I think one of us needs to fly out to you for a week. Or fly you in to us for a week. (jk - maybe)

You are trapped inside a bubble. You desperately need to get some air in very different environments before you make one. single. decision. re horses / riding.

I know you love that horse. I get it, all day long (as they say around here).

But I doubt he’s going anywhere if you don’t buy him right now. Put this decision off. You aren’t canceling him, you are just ‘delaying’ while you clear your head.

JFC (as they say around here).

Thank god you came to COTH. Some part of you knew you needed intervention rescue.

[Nikki]

offer 35K

[Mcl1]

I have been at barns that didn’t have an excess of talented riders around, but the fact that your trainer can only come up with a single rider (who the horse “hates”) to jump him around a course is strange. Sounds like your trainer is well respected and has connections - I would think she could find a catch rider who could show the horse in a few classes (even at a low level). The fact that she presents the only option as a rider she has said doesn’t get along with the horse makes me wonder if she is building in an excuse in case it doesn’t go well. And/or she is afraid of what may happen with a strange rider. With all that being said - if that rider is the only option I would still absolutely want to see the horse show. One would hope that if it is an easy fix of just that rider being softer, they could make that adjustment.

It sounds like you are already tempering your goals and expectations to make this horse work. If you had a crazy low budget, or if you had years and years of experience and just knew that this horse was THE ONE - I would say go for it. But between the other thread and this one, I am guessing this is the first “nice” horse you have gotten to ride.

Take a step back, try a new barn, ride some different horses. There are so many nice horses out there without baggage. At your level, you even said you want something that will take care of you in the show ring. Find something that is proven to do that.

Also - I know others have brought this up but 6 months is a short time period to move a horse, especially one that is clearly sensitive and has had issues with transitions in the past. I know you said you were hoping that the move could be a positive for the horse and “reset” its mind - it could very well do the exact opposite.

[Pico_Banana]

I think the right way to approach this is to ask yourself if you’d be happy spending 50k on this horse and only doing for the rest of his life what you are doing now. You obviously love him (and I get it - no animal that has ever entered my life in a serious way has ever left) and that has real value. But the question is whether it trumps all the other things you want. If it does, buy the horse. If not, this is not the horse for you.

I’ll throw another factor into the mix. If you buy the horse and he can’t progress - starts stopping at jumps - ask yourself whether you’d be open to changing disciplines. I know many people dread dressage, but lots of people (myself included) love it. Especially if the best part about this horse is your relationship because good dressage will help you develop it in a way that is totally different than what you are doing now IMO.

[FjordBCRF]

@carrotgirl - Have you heard the saying, “you don’t know what you don’t know?” I think this applies here, and is not intended as a dig at you in any way. It sounds like you have been with one trainer, with some questionable practices and stories, who from what I can gather here is hoping and pushing to make an easy $50K off what you don’t know. For the record, I would be looking for a new trainer/barn/horse to work with with everything we know at this point.

The fact that are you relocating for 6 months then moving BACK is something to seriously consider. It can take 4-6 months for a horse to truly get settled in at a new barn/environment and its entirely possible, this horse doesn’t handle moves well. Everything is going to be upside down for you too for probably at least the first half of that 6 months. Then you have to move him BACK and have another settle in period wherever that may be.

Can you handle the thought of things going south and potentially having to sell the horse with $50K + down the drain plus a whole lotta heartbreak? That will be far worse than NOT buying the horse to start with. Many of us have seen very similar situations like this not going well sadly

My advice would be continue to lease the horse for the 6 months youre gone and fly in a couple times a month to ride as mentioned upthread. In the meantime, find a new barn/trainer at your new location and take as many lessons on as many horses as you can. You can do this at more than one barn to get a flavor for different trainers.

If you have the time, see if you can help out around the barn to learn as much about horses/horse care as you can. This will really help you get a better feel for ownership. Once you move back…see what you think about buying the horse and if that’s still what you want to do. I would NOT buy before your move.

[IPEsq]

If you want to learn how to jump courses and go to horse shows, don’t buy this horse. Maybe look for a lease at another barn in your area once you’re back.

[widge]

I find myself agreeing with a lot of the arguments here, both in favor of and against buying this horse. It doesn’t seem like OP has clearly defined riding goals, and is willing to do whatever it is this horse wants to do. And that’s fine. $50k is a lot of money for a do-whatever horse, but if she wants to spend that, so be it.
Going back to the original question of what this horse is worth in the open market, it’s almost certainly not $50k. But, the horse doesn’t seem to be on the open market. It seems to be offered to one rider who loves it.
OP, you are almost certainly overpaying. But sometimes that’s a personal calculation and it’s worth it to us, because we love the horse or whatever reason. I don’t think you should expect to jump this one around a lot or show it, but if that’s okay with you, then go for it.

[steelerino]

She’s in love folks, ain’t no talking her off this ledge.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

@Mcl1

the fact that your trainer can only come up with a single rider (who the horse “hates”) to jump him around a course is strange. Sounds like your trainer is well respected and has connections - I would think she could find a catch rider who could show the horse in a few classes (even at a low level).

Did I miss whether even the trainer can get this horse round a course of jumps??

[widge]

I believe it was stated that the trainer doesn’t jump anymore due to age or injury.

[trubandloki]

@Horsegirl_s_Mom

Did I miss whether even the trainer can get this horse round a course of jumps??

@widge is correct, the OP said her training can’t ride the horse for physical reasons.

@carrotgirl

She needs riders to show her horses since she can’t physically anymore.

[chancellor2]

How does this help the trainer sell the horse?
That’s easy. Horse “hates” this rider. So, carrotgirl is not gonna want to have this rider ride this horse.
And even if she does, and they have stops at a show, it’s because the horse hates the rider.

This feels more and more like Black Stallion syndrome. There are a lot of bright red flags here.

[findeight]

If OP is still with us…which I hope she is, have a question. And please read through all of this.

Who outside this barn who has been in horses for many years and seen many things says this trainer has a good reputation and is the person who you need to begin your horse journey with?

Be careful they don’t just recognize the name and assume she is good. Or shes been in business a long time so she must be good, right? Thats just name recognition and no knowledge of actual practices. Show results are no indication of a trainers ethics, thats just more name recognition and that is true all the way to the top. Sadly. there are some pretty big, recognizable names with some pretty shady reputations that are just whispered about because nobody wants to speak up but everybody knows they are big name riders/trainers. That is not a recommendation or sign of respect.

You are new and there are some nuances to the horse business you do not yet understand because, again and from a kind place, you do not know what you do not know yet.

The giant red flag that is continuing to grow bigger here is you have never jumped a little course and have never seen him in person jump a course and have not even seen a video of him jumping a course in this country, only stuff from years ago in Europe.

When you asked to see him jump a course this trainer said yes but only with the rider he hates who makes him stop and has not made it around a course with him. On what planet would this be the way to sell somebody a horse to ride around courses??? Makes no sense at all. Plus pushing a newbie to buy it is unethical. At best and at any price.

The only possible way it makes sense is if she KNOWS the horse will not make it around and can blame that rider if you insist he jumps a course and he stops out. Right now she figures you are hooked anyway and will not press the issue of seeing him jump an actual course.

May we ask who is paying for this PPE, who will be authorizing what imaging of which body parts and does that person know how fast that gets into the thousand + region? And do I understand she will be there? That is most unusual and borderline unethical, the reasonable and customary procedure is buyer picks the vet and seller stays away so vet can be unbiased and comfortable giving their opinion of suitability for intended purpose.

And thats what a PPE vet does, it is not pass/ fail. It is that vet stating “ in my opinion this horse is/is not suitable for the intended purpose of jumping courses at this time”. You probably did not know that and would not expect you to know as you have never bought a horse before. Trainer may be counting on that.

Keep in mind if you do buy him and he really is 10 years old you are looking at a potentially 15 year commitment whether he is sound/ usable or not and resale may not be possible. That is true of any 10 year old horse but why start with something that already has many yellow flags and that big, red stop flag waving.

Please at least talk to your new trainer, you need some help with this.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Just to further push back against people who are saying, “buy the horse because you love him,” I really feel as if this trainer is playing up the OP’s heartstrings: “you’re the only person who can ride the horse! You are his special person!” If the OP had been in horses for many years, that would be one thing, but it really does sound like Black Stallion Syndrome (BSS, ha) to me, where this horse with the OP is not doing much and is just at his (very minimal) stress level. And I really don’t like throwing the other rider under the bus, as others have said.

I mean, I have been a former BSS sufferer myself, so I totally get it! But $50K is an expensive price tag for a horse you want to show but you’ve never jumped a course on, and who hasn’t jumped a course with a rider you have seen with your own eyes.