I have two really nice well composted manure piles that I would love to offer free to gardeners. However, I have in the past (last year being the most recent) treated my fields with herbicide for weed management. How long should this compost before you would feel comfortable to use in gardens?
de-wormer is a larger issue. But unless your customers are ultra green and organic, I doubt they will even bother to ask.
depends on the type of herbicide applied…and when.
Any of the pyridine class of herbicides are deadly to a garden. Composting does NOT degrade the herbicide.
Is 24-D a pyridine?
I am not clear on your question. Are you taking the trimmings off the treated fields to put on the compost pile? Or using horse manure after grazing treated fields, to make up the compost? If horses are eating the treated pastures, I don’t think the herbicide is in the pasture plants they eat. I am just not understanding how treated fields would affect the compost, without the above methods of adding to the compost.
If properly composted, the material in the piles will have been hot enough to kill the seeds of weeds, so you are not putting them back to grow more weeds. Compost piles are now used instead of burying large animals, reducing the carcass to nothing in the high heat, in less than six months. If it can get hot enough for that, is turned regularly, weed seeds stand no chance of remaining viable when compost is finally used.
My other suggestion is to use that wonderful compost yourself! Putting it in the spreader and just spreading on the fields is a wonderful organic addition to your soil. If you don’t have a spreader, perhaps you have a front-end loader? You could make small piles of compost, then drag over them to spread it on the fields. Maybe you could borrow or hire the neighbor with a spreader to come over, load it, have him/her spread the piles on the fields for you, to enrich the soil.
Heck, after doing all the work, I would be using my compost, not giving all that nutrient material away!! Like buying fertilizer and telling everyone to come help themselves to it!
[QUOTE=goodhors;8649526]
I am not clear on your question. Are you taking the trimmings off the treated fields to put on the compost pile? Or using horse manure after grazing treated fields, to make up the compost? If horses are eating the treated pastures, I don’t think the herbicide is in the pasture plants they eat. I am just not understanding how treated fields would affect the compost, without the above methods of adding to the compost.
If properly composted, the material in the piles will have been hot enough to kill the seeds of weeds, so you are not putting them back to grow more weeds. Compost piles are now used instead of burying large animals, reducing the carcass to nothing in the high heat, in less than six months. If it can get hot enough for that, is turned regularly, weed seeds stand no chance of remaining viable when compost is finally used.
My other suggestion is to use that wonderful compost yourself! Putting it in the spreader and just spreading on the fields is a wonderful organic addition to your soil. If you don’t have a spreader, perhaps you have a front-end loader? You could make small piles of compost, then drag over them to spread it on the fields. Maybe you could borrow or hire the neighbor with a spreader to come over, load it, have him/her spread the piles on the fields for you, to enrich the soil.
Heck, after doing all the work, I would be using my compost, not giving all that nutrient material away!! Like buying fertilizer and telling everyone to come help themselves to it![/QUOTE]
The OP is asking about “Pass Thru” herbicide contamination in their compost. I assume their horses are on pasture and stalled. So the stall muck out has manure from the “treated” grass ingested and or they pick out the manure from their paddocks and add to the compost pile.
Certain types of Herbicides do not break down readily if at all when composted. They will remain active in the compost pile and can and will have an effect on other plants if the compost is used for garden applications. This is why they are referred to as “Pass Thru herbicides”. I believe the popular herbicide Grazon is a Pass Thru.
2-4-D by itself breaks down quickly has a half life of 7-14 days. It is my understand it will not be present after composting. But a fact check should be done to make sure.
[QUOTE=gumtree;8649696]
The OP is asking about “Pass Thru” herbicide contamination in their compost. I assume their horses are on pasture and stalled. So the stall muck out has manure from the “treated” grass ingested and or they pick out the manure from their paddocks and add to the compost pile.
Certain types of Herbicides do not break down readily if at all when composted. They will remain active in the compost pile and can and will have an effect on other plants if the compost is used for garden applications. This is why they are referred to as “Pass Thru herbicides”. I believe the popular herbicide Grazon is a Pass Thru.
2-4-D by itself breaks down quickly has a half life of 7-14 days. It is my understand it will not be present after composting. But a fact check should be done to make sure.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for spelling it out to me! I have not used such products, so had not read about the after-effects. I am still with the Glycosphate use, but had considered the 2-4-D on a couple difficult woody places on the fenceline. Always good to learn more!
[QUOTE=goodhors;8649840]
Thank you for spelling it out to me! I have not used such products, so had not read about the after-effects. I am still with the Glycosphate use, but had considered the 2-4-D on a couple difficult woody places on the fenceline. Always good to learn more![/QUOTE]
I’m a long time user of both. For broad leaf 2,4,D is a fine product. For “woody” weeds and heavy fence line growth it is less satisfactory to ineffective. You might be better off with something like Crossbow or Grazon in pastures. Roundup works well on fence lines but is not “persistent.” It kills what’s there now but not what will come up after the spray is dissipated. For that you can try Pramintol or RM43 Total Vegetation Control. I’ve got a jug of the latter in the barn ready for use as soon as we get a break from the persistent rain. 
I’ve never used it; it was recommended by the guys at the local co-op.
Check with your local co-op, not Lowes or Home Depot or the local garden shop, for advice on stuff that works. They sell the concentrate which you mix yourself (follow the label directions; like gravity it’s not just a good idea, it’s the law 
). The stuff from “consumer” sources is pre-mixed and you are paying a big premium for water. Ensure that you are applying the product IAW label directions; this is another legal requirement. Also, use a surfactant. This is a soap-like product that allows the material to more effectively coat the leaves and that means a greater uptake by the plant of the material. This means lower application rates per acre and a quicker and more effective kill. That is both economically and environmentally a Good Thing.
I’ve just ordered something to deal with the problem of wide area coverage. It’s often difficult to see where you’ve just sprayed, particularly if the ground is dry and you can’t see your tracks from the last pass. Sophisticated sprayers have a “marker system” that uses materials similar to football field line markers to give the operator a visual reference as they work. My sprayer is not so sophisticated. I’m going to try this http://www.rrsi.com/product/rrsi-ivm-marking-dye/ It not only gives “row control” but also will tell you if wind is adversely affecting your spray pattern.
There are a bunch of “alternatives” out there hawked by people who hate, and fear, “chemicals.” They range from straight vinegar or salt to various home-made concoctions. I guess if you’re talking about a kitchen garden maybe they’re effective. But if you’re talking about acres of pasture or miles of fence they are highly questionable. Ask some hard questions about effectiveness and costs before you go this route.
Good luck in your project.
G.
2,4 -D alone, is not an issue with pass through in manure from treated fields.
I will confirm Gumtree’s thinking on Grazon. It IS a “pass through” herbicide. There a several Grazon formulations. But each contains a pyridine class ingredient.
I’ve used Grazon Next HL It has worked well on my hay field. I anticipate the hay from this field will help control the weeds in the pasture after the horses eat the hay.
see here for complete information.
I agree with G, 2-4-D alone does’t work very well if at all on “woody” stemmed weeds. Kind of just knocks them down for a day or 2 but not out. If used when the plant is very young/soft stemmed it does pretty good. Better off using a target herbicide and spot sprayer. When I am cleaning up a field of mixed weeds I use 2-4-D mixed with Clarity, Crossbow depending on things. I’m not a real expert on this but I have access to those who are. I just ask them. I don’t have to do enough to get my “expert badge”.
Test the compost by planting a fast-growing broadleaf plant (I think peas or beans are popular for how quickly they sprout and grow). Plant a couple with compost mixed in and a couple without side-by-side. Within 2 weeks you should know.
David
Grazon in manure will KILL tomato plants. It is OK after several years composting. I am not sure I would risk it after only one year. It does not seem to affect weeds though. Go figure. It is fine if you are planting corn ( a grass).
I learned this the hard way!
[QUOTE=SusanO;8654671]
Grazon in manure will KILL tomato plants. It is OK after several years composting. I am not sure I would risk it after only one year. It does not seem to affect weeds though. Go figure. It is fine if you are planting corn ( a grass).
I learned this the hard way![/QUOTE]
You may not see the effect on weeds in a pasture since the herbicide is in the manure. But consider all the broad leaf weeds that were kept from germinating on/in/next to the manure …
[QUOTE=DHCarrotfeeder;8656833]
http://www.rodalesorganiclife.com/garden/do-you-need-test-your-compost-contaminants[/QUOTE]
I would take their advice with a bucket of salt.
Now mind you, I am a hippie tree hugger, but Rodale still spews that nonsense of pressure treated wood leeching arsenic.
It was negligible 20 years ago, and lumber available now to the public has not contained any for over a decade and a half.
[QUOTE=Alagirl;8656864]
I would take their advice with a bucket of salt.
Now mind you, I am a hippie tree hugger, but Rodale still spews that nonsense of pressure treated wood leeching arsenic.
It was negligible 20 years ago, and lumber available now to the public has not contained any for over a decade and a half.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think any salt is required for that webpage. The message I shared is to plant some test pots and observe the seedlings for good growth before lathering it onto your whole garden. No pseudo-scientific conjectures or para-academic greenie-whackjob content.
I should hope that using that link does not imply I’ve reviewed and agreed with everything else on that domain. I have not.
[QUOTE=DHCarrotfeeder;8657359]
I don’t think any salt is required for that webpage. The message I shared is to plant some test pots and observe the seedlings for good growth before lathering it onto your whole garden. No pseudo-scientific conjectures or para-academic greenie-whackjob content.
I should hope that using that link does not imply I’ve reviewed and agreed with everything else on that domain. I have not.[/QUOTE]
Just noting that they are extreme. 
Do not use Grazon or Grazon Next. Sprayed my pastures in early 2014, compost the stall manure produced grazing on those fields and still, in 2016, even diluted with potting soil, it’s killing my garden.
A friend suggested that I spread the contaminated compost on my pastures hoping it might help with current weeds but I’m afraid I’d end up with more deadly compost. So today I dug up my one big trail obstacle and buried all of the contaminated compost and covered it with about 4 inches of soil.
[QUOTE=littlebaypony;8678225]
Do not use Grazon or Grazon Next. Sprayed my pastures in early 2014, compost the stall manure produced grazing on those fields and still, in 2016, even diluted with potting soil, it’s killing my garden.
A friend suggested that I spread the contaminated compost on my pastures hoping it might help with current weeds but I’m afraid I’d end up with more deadly compost. So today I dug up my one big trail obstacle and buried all of the contaminated compost and covered it with about 4 inches of soil.[/QUOTE]
Grazon products are great to use in many situations. If you sprayed Grazon and intended to compost the manure or any hay cut from this pasture - you did not follow the label, and therefore, the law.
I don’t intend to be sharp with you, but as a Certified Pesticide Applicator and an Agronomist, I take pesticides very seriously. Grazon is a very useful tool in my field, and I would like it to stay that way.
You absolutely could have spread the compost back on to grazing land and given yourself some great organic matter to improve your soils. You would not have ended up with “more deadly compost.” You would have ended up with healthier soils and healthier grass from the Nitrogen the manure would have brought back to the field.
Burying the compost will actually greatly increase the half-life of the picloram. Sunlight, moisture and bacteria are important to breakdown any chemical (and by ‘chemical’ I mean everything - dead plant and animal tissue, water, everything is a chemical!)
I agree with Goldenrow. For me, Grazon is a fantastic tool. Last summer the conditions were great for weeds. Not so much for the Orchard grass.
Since I sprayed my hay field with Grazon Next HL this season, The Grazon treated field is in good shape. The untreated field is terrible with weeds. Any hay I sell will include a buyer signed statement to forestall issues like Littlebaypony. That statement will have the buyer agree that the hay AND resulting manure will only be applied to pastures. Dow has a nice sheet that I will include with the hay.
