5.6% moisture is lower than most regular hays, which can safely be as high as about 15%. But some are under 10%, so you really don’t know what you have without either a good moisture probe, or the actual analysis
I just wouldn’t rely on the lower moisture content of a compressed bale to say you can feed less. There are certainly regular grass hays with DE in the .90 range, though I would say that .86 for a Bermuda is on the higher side and likely a direct result of being a higher % DM.
When I look at the standlee calculator, if I put in that I feed alfalfa hay at 20 lbs (just picking a number) and no grain no oil, depending on the horse “attributes” I choose, it tells me that I can feed 16.5 lbs of the standlee alfalfa hay.
That implies that the compression has done something. Now, they could be lying but 4 lbs less of hay per day while it doesn’t seem significant, adds up at scale.
(I’m still not saying I would replace it at 100%, just trying to understand the mechanics as I try to formulate what I am doing here).
Compression changes the visual volume of what you feed obviously but it does not change the weight or nutrition per pound you feed.
Dryness is going to be minimal change in nutrition per lb.
The biggest variation is going to be between forage species, and then between various qualities of any given forage. Alfalfa can vary alot in DE and protein and cellulose. Some alfalfa is actual twigs with shattered leaves on them. Some horses think this is wonderful (the kind of horses that love to eat twigs). Older or more anorexic horses not so much.
@Alterration ah, the boarding situation really complicates things. It’s much harder than just figuring out one pet horse. I think that’s a good plan, get the alfalfa into the horses overnight and then give them enough lower value hay in nets so they can stave off boredom and ulcers. Can you put rubber mats under the nets so they don’t trample the pieces into the mud?
Once I have my paddocks up, yes, but for right now the hay has to be distributed over a large area (and I’d need a lot of mats) because I have several crabby patties that are causing issues.
It is funny, though, even in the stall they don’t eat the hay that has fallen on the ground. It’ll stay there for weeks. It’s like it’s dead to them
It does depend though where the original hay started, specifically how much moisture there was. In the end, the analysis is what the analysis is. Fed at 2% of the body weight, does it provide the nutrients the horse needs, and the calories the horse needs
I wouldn’t be too concerned about how much things changed between the hay being baled, and it ending up in the compressed bale. You still have to feed what’s in front of you.
If it’s 12% protein, up from its pre-compressed and further dried state, then feeding 16lb instead of 20, is still providing 871gm protein which is more than the average 1000lb horse needs. And if that means you can feed that 16lb at a higher cost, and feed 4lb or more of a cheaper, lower quality hay, to help the cost, then you can do that for sure.
Compressing does not lower the moisture level. The hay is already cured when it is baled into the 3x3x8 bale. However if the hay is low moisture there is a lot of shatter of the leaves when it is compressed, especially alfalfa leaves. I have seen pictures of growers "steaming "alfalfa before they bale it to increase the moisture somewhat so there is less leaf shatter. And the hay is chopped into smaller pieces which increases “dust”. This is hard to understand when you are used to hay baled in the southeast where you cannot get hay down to those low moisture levels due to humidity. But western hay can be baled at pretty low moisture levels. My preference is just to buy the 3x3x8 bale and skip the compressing. Which leads to other issues like storage and how to pick up the damn thing.
I do have a problem with “Karen” complaining to room service after she eats her more expensive hay and is left with local perfectly good orchard grass hay. I try to ignore her. If I only put out the expensive stuff then she picks through that too and only eats out the choice bits. Unlike your boarded horses “Karen” has no problem maintaining her weight with a pound or two of ration balancer and unlimited half and half mix with the hay. She gets good stuff and the rest makes sure she has roughage in her gut. Tough love.
I wish Tamara From Tennessee still posted on COTH. She had a hay press and I bought some NY timothy compressed bales from her years ago. It was not dusty like Standlee. Most probably because it was slightly higher moisture than the western hay Standlee grows and bales.
And if my horses were getting Standlee alfalfa I am sure they would trample grass hay into the mud and stand at the fence and complain. Can you get hay that is a middle ground? Maybe a legume grass mix that is really nice but not as rich ( and expensive) as the Standlee so they don’t have the filet mignon to compare to the hamburger?
One of my barn friends is sourcing alfalfa Timothy mix for her older horse because if she gets alfalfa plus Timothy, the horse only eats the alfalfa.
The thing is, alfalfa and Timothy have different growing cycles and most farmers dont deliberately plant them together. So alfalfa grass mix is created when farmers are transitioning fields from one to the other. It’s not a staple hay type.
They’ve been trampling for months, they’ve only had the Standlee for two days I bought it as an experiment out of frustration with the amounts of feed I am throwing at these critters
It may be because they always know more is coming that they are being pickier, I’m not sure. When we first did the increase they ate every bite, now they are turning their noses up.
I think I’ve created monsters simply by feeding them enough!
It will be met with resistance and likely, shock but in my opinion you should pass on the increased cost of hay to the boarders. I’ve been on both sides of this scenario and it’s not pleasant, but the animal owner should help pay the bills.
Another thing that might be helpful - My coach built pasture hay feeders out of reclaimed pallets and used a hay Chix type of net over top of the hay to prevent waste. She closed the gaps so hooves can’t get stuck. Just an idea that might be inexpensive for you.
I personally use hay nets to avoid having to clean up wasted hay. I’m able to hang these on my fence. Good luck!
I have had lots of problems with hay waste with my two horses. One, in particular, likes to pick through hay for the tasty bits, then leaves the rejects on the ground. Even if the rejects are on grass they apparently become inedible somehow, and even the less picky horse doesn’t eat them either.
I usually feed hay out of Porta Grazers and this has still been an issue, as the horses will pull up the hay, pick through the mouthful, then dump the rejects on the ground. Throwing hay out on the grass isn’t any better, for the reasons stated above.
A couple of days ago I changed to hay nets with rubber mats or feed tubs underneath. No waste. Absolutely zero. What a difference. Not sure exactly why, but I sure am happy about the change.
The advantage to compressed bales is the ability to ship more in a smaller space. This started to be a thing with exporting racehorse quality hay to areas that did not have the capacity to make a lot of hay themselves… Japan, I heard, years ago. Lots of compressed bales fit into the hold of a cargo ship to make the journey, allowing more tonnage to be fit into a smaller space. Similarly, they can be useful if you are loading your trailer for a long distance, long duration trip, to keep your horse’s diet from varying from different sources constantly. Can be useful if you have limited barn storage space for hay. But I think the downside of using them is that the quality of they hay is more difficult to evaluate when you purchase it. Your horse will let you know, after you have purchased it!
I bought some, probably 25 years ago, some stuff that was “supposed” to go to Japan (was the story) and didn’t. It was OK. Timothy hay. Never bought it again. But if hay is difficult to find in your area (especially this year), and “compressed bales” is what is available, and is OK quality, it works. One would “hope” that crappy hay would not be the stuff that someone is going to spend the money on to “compress”. Economic??? Probably not, but welcome to horse ownership.
Have you looked into hay pillows? You can stuff them with the grass hay and put them all over the paddock, they eat out of them off the ground. I would be hesitant to rely on the compressed bales the quality can vary a lot between bags. Long term start searching now, ask on fb groups etc to find a better hay source for next year. My guys absolutely love brome hay and there’s very little waste even if it falls on the ground. It’s a bit harder to source but well worth it.
I have, but apparently those are not recommended for horses with shoes? We have quite a few with shoes, and I have one youngster here who has the most amazing capacity for getting himself into trouble.
In the stalls they have the hay nets with mats underneath but they still waste it. I even make sure that the bedding is all “away” from that space. I haven’t tried a pan underneath it though, they do seem to like eating out of pans.
I really hope my fence guy comes back with a quote soon
Yes, but I almost had to double the board when I purchased the facility in June in order to pay the staff adequately, so the extra hay & grain has been coming out of pocket. The boarders who stayed are nice people, but due to other boarding experiences, or their horse’s special needs, or life circumstances, can’t move elsewhere. I do plan on making smaller more regular price increases, but I also am cognizant of their limitations. We are not attempting to fill stalls with new boarders until I get some of the amenities in (so that we don’t just add to the issues we currently have and get more people who are cost sensitive) but that does leave a funny adjustment period.
This was a very low cost, low amenity, rough and ready, boarding facility and we’re transforming it into a very different sort of place, because we bought it so that I could train and ride my personal horses, and I want it to be the facility I’d want to board at. It’s a labor of love, but also a labor of great expense.
Eventually it will likely be out of their reach, but I’m also not a jerk (at least not that I know of) and I’m trying to explore all possibilities so that I’m only making the adjustments when it makes sense.
Businesses are tricky that way and horse businesses even more so. The capital improvements we’ve already made have a 10 year payback period, and those were just to keep the buildings from falling down and to stop water intrusion, which sadly don’t really have a net positive effect on what I can charge for board given the market rates in the area. So it definitely behooves us, no pun intended, to continue tweaking for 20-40 cent savings per horse where I can, without sacrificing their health and safety while continuing to “look the other way” when I see the losses
You’re unfortunately experiencing why hay is such a clusterf*ck when boarding.
I think buying $20 compressed bales opens a rabbit hole you don’t want to go down. You are basing your savings on the idea of zero waste. But the bales are so expensive and Murphy’s law says whatever can go wrong, will go wrong… when the inevitable happens, you’ll be taking a big financial hit.
What can go wrong?
Well, I buy the Standlee bales at TSC and they are hella unreliable. I’m not sure if that’s your source. TSC will let an entire batch get rained on, and while they are usually good about refunding you, that’s not helpful when you can’t replace the product because the entire pallet is bad and they aren’t getting another shipment in for at least a week.
You can get them shipped directly to you, but then we are living in 2022 when supply chains are completely unpredictable.
And what about the jerk horse who starts wasting it? Or the horse who hoovers it so quickly they need more forage or else will get ulcery? Or the well meaning boarder who gives the horses a few extra flakes of hay… $40 worth because they don’t realize how dense the small bales are.
For some reason, boarders tend to believe that barn owners are making bank. Many moons ago, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I ran a very large boarding/training/lesson facility. I am pretty sure that their math was the hay, the feed, and bedding, and presto- we were killing them with our boarding bills!
Labor (huge), maintenance (also huge), insurance, utilities (indoor lights will kill you) cost so much money. I used to say that the boarding business kept the lights on so that we could sell horses, lessons and clinics. We did schooling shows for the local “coven”, and those were an opportunity to cancel lessons all day, and spend money to make everyone happy. Except that they whined…
Any way, I tried Standlee for one of my horses who loved alfalfa. I would load an entire compressed bale into his hay net. He wasn’t really impressed. I got it at discount, and it was still stupid expensive. I am a huge fan of 2nd and 3rd cutting alfalfa for a couple, and second cutting brome grass for most of the rest. I’m lucky to have a great farmer that I buy from.
Hay is a super-pain, and I see why a lot of barn owners in this area feed 4-8 flakes a day in the stall and leave them standing out in dry paddocks with nothing all winter. Just not who I wanted to be.
I have 4 different possibilities of suppliers for the compressed hay in the local area. I live in a big city, so that part doesn’t scare me. I actually switched suppliers of senior feed when I got here because we were having the same issue - out on pallets in the rain meant moldy bags of grain - no thank you. Our TSC has everything under a shelter which is super nice.
My initial thought (and I’m sorry, I wasn’t clear) was just to understand the mechanics of the “less hay and zero grain” assertion that Standlee was making. I realize now that it’s probably the nutrition in the alfalfa and not the compression, although that was really messing with my mind - the wording they have on their site was breaking my brain
I will likely not replace 100% of their rations, but instead use it to cut back on the high expense senior feed that they are getting. When I put it into FeedXL, I can cut most of them back to the trace mineral supplement that I’m already giving them, plus cut back on grass hay quantity, just with a single flake of the Standlee alfalfa per day. I’ll continue my experiment, using the slow feed bags in the stall with grass hay, adding in the Standlee in pans and see how we go. It will allow me to put less grass hay in the paddocks, meaning there’s less to waste and it will be more consistent.
It actually ends up cutting back on cost by about $1-$3 per horse per day, depending on the horse in question. That’s significant.
I spend a lot of money sourcing nice hay for my horses since I don’t feed what grows here locally. But paying $20 a bale for Standlee compressed bales would not be sustainable for my three horses. No way would I spend that for boarded horses. I too have found consistency in the Standlee hay to be lacking. The plastic bag is nice but I am buying hay and not plastic.
When my horses are in I hang two hay bags - one of the good stuff and one bag of the cheaper stuff. When they finish the choicer hay they still have something to eat and with it bagged in small hole nets they can’t pull it out and poop and pee on it. They do waste some when I put it outside for them to eat during the day. Since I am home these days I can dispense hay in small quantities frequently and I try to find cheaper hay for filler ( although there wasn’t much cheap quality hay to be found this year). I realize if you work this is not doable.
I would see if you can find some cheaper alfalfa to give to the harder keepers at meal time and net up the hay you already have so the ingrates cannot destroy it. If you are not buying in bulk maybe you can try some different hay to see if they find it more palatable.
I bought it as an experiment out of frustration with the amounts of feed I am throwing at these critters 
