I recently acquire a 11 yr old TB mare – was originally going to breed her to a nice WB, but it turns out she has great racing lines and I could send the baby in for training for not alot of money. I haven’t been in the racing world for many years, so not really aware of good sires, nice nicks, etc. I was shown “True Nicks”, but I wonder if there are other programs that put equal emphasis on the dam lines as well as the sire lines. And while I’m at it, I’m open to any suggestions for stallions. She is by Pulpit o/o a Storm Cat daughter. She is unraced and (to my knowledge) hasn’t produced a racer yet. Stud fee can’t be over $7500 or so…
Virtually every breeding program concentrates on sirelines (unfortunately). Aside from True Nicks which is widely available, several of the big farms also offer access to G1 Goldmine for their stallions, which gives more information (though mares are still largely overlooked.)
As you probably know, Pulpit is a very successful broodmare sire. I copied this info about him from the KeeNov catalog:
“Sire of dams of 72 black-type winners, including champions Lady of Course, Aces Star, The Mindfulangel, and of Due Diligence, War Story, Departing, Real Solution, Madefromlucky, Good Samaritan, Nadal, Land Over Sea, Newsdad, Parlor, No Dozing, Cutting Humor, Karlovy Vary.”
Checking out those pedigrees can give you an idea about what has already worked with a Pulpit mare.
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You can pull various reports through Equineline to analyze what was successful for certain sires or female families, but I think it’s just as interesting to click around Pedigree Query and see similar. Of course, it may or may not be accurate, so I always confirm whatever patterns I’m seeing through Equineline.
Stallion managers themselves often have a wealth of info to offer if you inquire about a certain stallion. Not a computer program, but a quick phone call to inquire about something simple has often given me good insight I didn’t otherwise know.
Right now, thanks to covid, $7,500 can get you access to better quality stallions than usual. Proven sires like Mizzen Mast, Afleet Alex, Congrats, Midshipman, etc. are available. Plus you have a lot more new kids in that price range than usual.
I am jealous you can put the resulting foal in training for not a lot of money. :yes:
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Well, the trainer would (sort of) be in the family. I was married some 45 years ago (back when I was a trainer) to a man who was then a gallop boy/jock but ultimately became a colt starter/trainer himself. His son is now a trainer (different marriage). Assuming this unborn animal showed promise, the trainer & I would have a partnership where he got a larger share of the purses in exchange for me not paying as much in day $$. I have my own place, so I can foal out the horse here and raise it up to racing age. Heck, I’m used to warmbloods where you can’t even start them u/s till 3-4yrs old. With this foal, I’ll now pretty soon if it’s a stinker or not. Plus…it would be FUN!!
I am also jealous of your connections and agree with your premise that it would be fun. Lucky you!
Midshipman (mentioned above) is a lot of stallion for his price range. Our 2yo filly by him will (hopefully) make her debut next week at CD. We also have a quite nice weanling by him in the Keeneland November sale. Another stallion I like in that price range is Astern (AUS). He is currently unproven (1st crop races in 2021) but we have a yearling filly by him who is the most athletic TB we’ve ever bred. You might also want to look at Get Stormy, Cross Traffic, and Include.
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@Kyzteke What a good deal!
I second Get Stormy. He is about my favorite stallion in all of KY on a personal level. :yes: I am so thrilled he has proven himself worthy.
Right now is a good time for breeders who aren’t dependent on sales because there is so much value. All of the stallions mentioned should not be $7500 or below in normal times.
What about stallions OUTSIDE KY? I’m in Idaho…almost Canada. So I want to look at CA stallions as well. And since ID doesn’t have much in the way of racing, I will foal out the mare in either LA, OK or TX . I’ve been advised not to bother with KY or CA or FL as they don’t have the added incentives that other states do. So far (according to True Nicks) any son of Scat Daddy is an A+++… Also A+++'s are War Front Kitten’s Joy, both of which are WAAAY out of my price range. $7500 is my TOPS, so anything less expensive is great. There is actually a FREE Scat Daddy son in MD…“No Never,something,something…” So I sure don’t mind a deal…I’m mainly doing this for fun, although I have no desire to produce a total dud…
Have you looked at the Stallion Register on Blood Horse.com? You can narrow the stallions choices by State, Fee, Sire etc…
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According to BH stallion register,“Whence” is in LA. Son of Scat Daddy o/o an Any Given Saturday mare. No photo but there is contact info.
No race record apparently.
Yes, I’ve been using that + the free part of “True Nicks”. I looked at “Whence” and didn’t like him for some reason…I am not trying to win the KY Derby here, BUT just like in other sport, I don’t want to shoot for the bottom. A nice allowance horse who earns his/her keep and retires at 4 sound would be perfect!
Now I’m looking at a horse named Charming Kitten. Kitten’s Joy horses are known to be talented eventers, as are Pulpit & Storm Cat horses. So if the horse couldn’t run, it could be an eventer…This Charming Kitten horse ran till he was 6 and was a stakes winner at 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6. Ran on the turf and 1 mile+. See, those are GREAT eventing attributes as well. Stands for $Free or $1500 depending…in Indiana…PLUS Charming KItten’s dam sire is Wild Again who was by Icecapade. One of my earliest jobs on the track was as a hotwalker for Frank Whitley and I used to hot walk Icecapade when he was a 2 yr old!! Serendipity?
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Could be! :yes:
I might consider IN, too, unless something has changed. They have pretty good incentives all around.
Just an FYI, though- I’m sure you checked into this, but many farms have residency requirements. I say this because you mentioned foaling and keeping your horse at home. To get state incentives, they usually have to stay in state for quite awhile.
Free stallions are not uncommon. The ones who have to advertise free generally aren’t worth it. There is no reason to ship to MD for that.
If a dual sport prospect is what you want, you may consider Sweet Return in Indiana, too. I kick myself for not using him because I did like him quite a bit.
When I was breeding out of state because I lived in TN, I really dropped the ball on mare care. I foolishly assumed the farms did “mare care” like what we offered when we stood Arabian stallions when I was a kid— meaning you can board your mare for breeding purposes whether it’s a couple days or a couple months. While these farms do offer boarding, it fills up FAST at many of these regional places and there aren’t a lot of other options. No one could ever accommodate my mare for short term boarding; only if I was going to keep her there for breeding and foaling.
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I was wondering about the incentive requirements. My plan (on the cheap, 'cause I’m poor) was to get the mare to Wherever and get her preggers. Then bring her back to me for most of her pregnancy. THe last few months would be at my X-hubby’s place so we could foal out “officially” in Louisiana. My X doesn’t have a “farm”…just afew acres with a small barn…so it wouldn’t work?
I don’t know about the LA program specifically but here are their residency requirements, which seem similar to most other states:
”‹https://louisianabred.com/default.aspx?pid=23
Basically the mare either needs to be a full time resident once in foal, or she needs to be bred back to an LA-accredited stallion after foaling.
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I just wanted to say that this is so cool! I loved Icecapade. What was his personality like? Was he kind?
w
He was a two year old when I walked him. I remember him so well because he had this REAL thick winter coat…not long, just thick…and I’d have to walk him FOREVER till he cooled/dried to the groom’s satisfaction. I hot walked Honorable Miss as well…apparently she turned out to be one heck of a race mare…
@Kyzteke the point of the state-bred incentive programs is to draw mares (with boarding, vet, and vanning income) to that state. Every one that I know of has stringent residency requirements. If your mare isn’t going to live in a state with a good program, you’re probably out of luck in that regard.
