I don’t think our horses are underpriced only because they are trained for and available to those in jumpers and dressage. I just sold an UL horse who could have gone to jumpers or dressage and he was priced accordingly. He is a good dressage horse, but not an incredible one, and a good jumper, but not with Grand Prix written all over him.
They’re priced in line with what they ARE in those other disciplines as well.
I think the title is misleading.
The comparatively lower purchase prices are GREAT for “Eventing as a SPORT”
Not so great for “Eventing as a BUSINESS”
Right, Janet.
And then you take that quote of GMs & see how it negatively impacts your sport after the trainers & riders got very greedy?
Quite frankly, I think the whole syndicate thing is getting a little greedy. Has anyone read any of the literature? So Boyd may do it right, because at least when he’s injured his horses go around with Phillip…but that’s a whole other can of worms…but, if you can syndicate every horse in your barn, then you can start asking for prize money, raising cost of entries, that whole Doug Payne article - because at the end of it the Pro rider isn’t responsible for any of it. Gets passed along to the syndicate members & smurfs. Anyways…
Think about this: California Chrome is out of an $8,000 broodmare by a stallion who had a $2500 stud fee. Had he gone to auction before his racing career he probably would have sold for a record low price (adjusted for inflation) for a horse that won the Derby. If it was common for random inexpensively bred horses to become Derby winners it would be very hard to sell 6 figure stud fees.
As long as it is reasonably common for inexpensive, readily available OTTBs to be competetive in eventing it will stifle the prices for event horses. Personally I think that’s a good thing as it keeps our sport (relatively) accesible and as focused on horsemanship as horseflesh. If you’re a warmblood breeder (or a nation whose equine breeding is more focused on warmbloods than race horses) you think that is a bad thing and would like the sport to develop in a way that makes it more difficult for TBs to do well in.
Also, your average ammie with money is more likely to pick h/j or dressage to devote their limited time and money to because these are viewed as “safer” disciplines.
On the other hand
Eventing at the top level is accessable. It is not insane to dream of being a part of a partnership or syndicate that might reach the World Championships, Badminton, Rolex, or the Olympics. Maybe we should be taking advantage of this opportunity. PatO
that’s why I don’t sell my event horses as eventer. : )
The go to the show hunter ring if at all possible. My hunter contacts love them–bomb proof and ready to go.
Also, one other response hit it on the nail head. Many of our horses start out at $500-2K purchases from the track…
Many of the hunter/jumper horses START as big money imports.
[QUOTE=purplnurpl;7603340]
Many of our horses start out at $500-2K purchases from the track…
Many of the hunter/jumper horses START as big money imports.[/QUOTE]
Although OTTBs often start as bigger money horses, too. That $1000 CANTER purchase might have gone through the yearling sales for $40K.
I am one who thinks the syndication prices are a little optimistic. We are syndicating horses at prices they could not be sold for, which means the pros are playing the owners for fools. What a deal-- I get to overvalue my horse, KEEP the ride, and get all the bills paid. I did just go look at the syndication offerings, and it seems that they have adjusted these down to roughly $10k per share, which is more reasonable. However, some of the annual maintenance seems very steep. You got $100k for the horse, kept the ride, and you want $60,000 a year to maintain it? Times multiple horses?
I’d argue that is a pretty good deal considering that the riders holding these syndicates are typically not developing these horses but are buying them at 1 or 2* level and bringing them from there.
I think JenEM has the right idea. Showjumpers go for much more because they can compete at higher levels more often. How many 4* events can one horse do in a year? And what are the odds that it will win every time? Look at how many Grand Prix events Cella won this winter at WEF alone. Of course this horse would go for millions. The sheer number of competitions she can do compared to, say Parklane Hawk, is outrageous, which is why eventers are “cheaper.” Although, while I’m currently looking for a low-level one, my poor wallet doesn’t think any horse is cheap :(. It’s comparable to baseball players versus football players. Baseball players play over 100 games a season, while football players play once a week for 4 months. That’s why baseball players make so much more. Same idea.
Just from a purely lower level amateur perspective, I am really hoping event horse prices do not go the way of dressage horse or hunter/jumper horse prices. One of the things that attracts me to eventing is the fact that I could go get a $1500 OTTB and bring it along myself and have a reasonable chance at being competitive in the sport. Not that I actually have any aspirations of getting to the upper levels, but just the fact that I COULD if I had the horse that could do it, and good instruction, and dedication/luck, is nice encouragement.
Dressage does not have that kind of encouragement. You pretty much have to invest the money in a purpose-bred horse from the get-go to have a chance at being competitive at the upper levels. You can go get a $1500 OTTB and be relatively competitive at the lower levels, but the chances of that horse being able to collect and develop the degree of self-carriage necessary to win at the upper levels aren’t as high.
All of this has kind of a trickle-up effect, I think. A lower initial investment needed = lower prices at the top. Similarly, higher initial investment needed = higher prices at the top. It’s not about the work that goes into the horse to get to the top, it’s more about the base price of the prospect horse at the bottom with no training or experience.
At least in dressage you can go for other milestones than just ribbons. I like the ideal of medals, achievement categories at the various levels, etc. You can always choose to compete against yourself.
If I had to choose between hunters and dressage, I’d choose dressage for the above reasons.
There are the exceptions if you get lucky and/or know what you are doing. I know a GP rider who got their first GP horse for $1 off the track. How many people though have the talent to recognize a prospect like that and bring it up through the levels successfully?
Eventing has similar medals. They just have not caught on the same way.
The reason that prices are higher for show jumpers and dressage horses is because it’s easier to buy the ride in those disciplines.
This is also true in endurance, where horsemanship has gone totally over the cliff with the infusion of Gulf money.
I wouldn’t want to see that happen to eventing.
Comparing eventing horse prices to Grand Prix show jumper prices And to an extent hunter prices will make you crazy. As far as I know of eventing the prize money is never there. A top 3ft hunter will pay it’s show bills with prize money, this goes for top 3’6+ show hunters. A top 3’6" jumper should be able to pay all show costs and can generally bring home a few dollars as well (500$-10000$ classics) a top junior or a/o jumper can bring more than show costs and the very good ones can also compete and get a check in a Grand Prix as well. Once you get into the Grand Prix ranks at small shows winning will usually put a couple grand in your pocket after taxes, and entry fees. You get into the big sticks there are quite a few circuits with very very very big money up for grabs, spruce meadow, WEF, some of the HITS shows.
The nicest prizes given in eventing are at the bigger events but the prize money pales in comparison, the luxury prizes are fewer. Heck the 3ft pregreen hunters are competing for more money at their biggest event, than what eventers in the us do all year.
The thing is a non team horse is probably a great learning experience for some people, but once they are that fit and capable, and probably only have a few years left at higher levels, they are already too much horse for most people and the wealthy lower level ammies and juniors want to buy horses that are very fancy and very capable. While it’s great a 4* should be more capable in dressage, it’s unlikely they are going to get the best scores in the lower levels where riders can give up scope for fancy. A less competitive (in the dressage) four star horse has a very limited demand whereas a less competitive grand Prix horse, junior and ao hunter and jumper, and a horse from the top coming down the levels still has a pretty bigger demand and group to market then to.
I think this dovetails with the Doug Payne article. If you are concerned about top riders’ prospects for making a living while building a competitive US team, and believe that potential owners will only invest if they can get their money out, then I guess it’s not good for the sport.
However, if you think that participation by amateurs – who have become a very large segment of this sport-- is good for “our sport” then low prices are a great thing.
There is also a trickle-up effect. Amateur participation fuels the market for high-quality trainers like mine (Steph Butts), who are not big international names (I think she’s just as talented though). There are far more of these people-- folks who have done some 3* and are teaching students up through prelim-- than could ever fit on a team or fill the ranks at Rolex. These people are very, very good for our sport in my opinion.
At Waredaca this weekend I saw a pleasant mix of big-time riders and amateurs on mostly modestly-priced horses in a wide range of shapes, colors, and sizes. Most of these people are working with trainers who cater to this market and whose businesses would dry up if this sport became unaffordable.
For me, personally, the low price of quality prospects and access to a quality non-team trainer has made all of the difference. My OTTB rocked around training with our trainer this weekend and got a ribbon in a division packed with pro riders, and is also helping me get back into the mix at the baby levels. I couldn’t be part of the “our” in “our sport” if prices went up, participation went down, and trainers like mine had too few students to sustain a business.
I would hate to see event horses get even more expensive than they are now. I love the fact that we can compete with horses that don’t cost an arm and a leg.
I agree with a big part of it being prize money. In Hunterworld there is dough to be made even if you’re not at the highest levels. People will pay more for a packer that gives them a good chance at not only doing well but in recouping some of their extensive show costs. Dressage it’s not the prize money but there are a lot, not all, but a lot if amateurs who don’t want to put in the time so they spend big bucks on made horses. From my experience in eventing most people are brave, looking for a challenge and don’t mind putting in the time more so than other sports. Add to that OTTB’s dominate our field and can be picked up for $500 and are more than able to be competitive. The non-warmblood horses just aren’t as competive in the other fields. Or they can be but people still think there are breed biased against them. I think our lower prices reflect the OTTB access and success as well as most people in eventing are in it for the experience of going at it alone more than the other disciplines! Tough Eventers!!
I will say though I think prices are higher than I remember! Back when I did sales I only sold hunter and dressage because there was NO money in selling an eventer. But if have a friend with a 15K budget and she is looking for a not fancy, can be early teens, just get her safe around a BN/N course and maybe do training someday. We can’t find a damn thing!! She’s planning a trip to Florida because that’s the most she has found in her price range! I remember there were tons of Novice packers, nothing fancy but reliable and steady XC for under $10,000 not too long back!
If you want to be a pro & earn some prize $ (owners discretion - not sure what the eventing standard is) then head to a 4* - I have no desire to fund that or put that burden on the venues.
Glad I’m not the only one noticing the potential glutteny with these syndicates. Can see it leading to the problems George Morris pointed out - more concerned with making money than competing…or happy to be Ok instead of at the top. Complacency because you have a steady cash flow. Then the CF becomes your primary concern…
Considering how miserable many h/j riders are because they are being priced out of their sport, I’m surprised at the OPs initial complaint. You don’t put money into showing a horse and expect to get a 100% return. The sport is not about making money. And if it costs more than the average salary, their won’t be many participants remaining, or attracted to it…
One thing I think people forget is that it is much easier logistically to have a riding ring for h/j vs land for XC. Most probably won’t change disciplines. So in the US where we work many hours & don’t have a lot of land, h/j just makes a lot more sense.
Help! WHAT Doug Payne article? Does anyone have a link?
Thanks!
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